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#91
10-09-18, 01:22
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Quote:
I have your valve holders / tube sockets and will include a scrap WS52 connector that you can use for parts. Hopefully this week if I can get to the Post Office. Chris. 
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#92
10-09-18, 18:10
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Thanks for that, Chris. Let me know the postage and I will send it off to you.
The spare connector may come in very handy. The broken connection behind the connector socket assembly was one of the Aerial Circuit Relay terminals and that relay is inactive normally in the Remote Receiver. Good to now have it reconnected though and the free wire out of any future harms way all the same. However, (Interesting how that word can pop up so often in restoration work), once the connector socket assembly was remounted to the chassis and power reapplied, I no longer have +12 V anywhere in the system and no +150 V showing on HT Mode on the meter. Every valve is stone cold inactive. I switched the Remote Supply to my backup receiver and that receiver lit up straight away. All voltages normal and the meter shows about half the valves with normal readings, the remainder with nil readout. While hooked up, I took readings from the terminal strips on the back of the connector socket. The HT was 155.5 V with the meter showing spot on 150 V. The LT reading at the connector terminal was 2.39 V. Struck me as a bit low but all items downstream from there on the LT side were responding correctly. Back to the Remote Receiver chassis to check the same two connector socket voltage values. The HT terminal came in at 218.5 V. This is very close to the raw output HT from the Remote Supply. The LT reading was 0.75 V. What initially comes to mind is a short in the system and with the missing contact on the connector socket, I am wondering if the screw stub and/or nut inside may finally have broken free and moved into contact with internal circuits. I briefly had a working system when I first jumpered the broken relay wire behind the connector socket assembly. Maybe all the jostling about of the socket assembly while resoldering bumped the broken hardware free inside to run amok. Sigh! David
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#93
10-09-18, 21:28
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Quote:
You could remove all the valves and measure the resistance between +12V and chassis - with no valves fitted it should be very high resistance (or open circuit). If it is a short circuit, don't risk the power supply by running it for more than a few seconds - I don't think there are any fuses in the LT circuit, and it will overload the transformer. Chris.
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#94
10-09-18, 22:52
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Hi Chris. I initially thought a short might have been in one of the AF Amp valves, so pulled them to see what happened. Nothing, so decided to pull all of them with no ultimate change. That had me leaning towards the absence of B+ creating the inactive valves, resulting in the HT electrons with nothing meaningful to do. Thanks for the confirmation I was on the right track.
After you mentioned it, I realized I had checked the 12 V terminal to chassis and got a very high value. My brain must have been in ‘volts mode’ and did not make the connection to the fact that particular test had been resistance related, and what the result actually meant. I’m hoping that a disassembly of the connector socket will reveal loose hardware bits floating about inside, and solve the problem. A previous owner of this Remote Receiver had drilled holes in the rear of the case to mount a modern Coax Aerial Socket. Have since discovered this was done with liberal application of cutting oil and with the receiver chassis still in place. The bottom back edge of the case was wet with oil and metal chips stuck in it. Spent a while cleaning it all up and also found the same crude sitting in the bottom lip of the rear chassis. Visually, the lower chassis floor looked OK but when I pulled the V1G and V1H valves, I found a sweat of oil between the sockets and valve bases. More cleaning done there as a result and another reinspection. David
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#95
12-09-18, 17:41
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52-Set Electroplating
Thought I would take a break here to poll the collective wisdom of the MLU Group.
I will start by referencing back to Page 2 of this thread, Post #46, Photo 3. This is an interior shot of the ZE-11 Remote Supply cover. Of interest here is the nature of the interior finish that is visible. My first thought was this finish was just another metallic looking paint, although what stood out with it was the extremely fine metallic powder that must have been used to make it. it does not look at all like the typical aluminum finish paints available today. Curiosity got the better of me eventually and I tested the surface of the finish with a multimeter and was very surprised to see how conductive it was. A closer inspection of the Remote Supply revealed the entire cover assembly AND the base assembly had this coating under the paint. A closer look at the Remote Receiver Case revealed it too had a complete coating of this finish on it, covering the entire finished assembly, with the exception of the Grounding Post Screw on the lower rear right side. The finish paint was then applied to the case, reaching into it only two inches from the leading edge of the case. I have yet to see one in person, but strongly suspect the entire basic, sheet metal case assembly of the Carrier No. 4 for the 52-Set is also finished in this coating. The heavier metal parts of the Carrier Assembly, possibly not. I am pretty certain this is an electroplated finish and have narrowed the possibilities down to three metals: cadmium, satin nickel and zinc. I am presently leaning towards the satin nickel finish. From what I have seen of 75 year old cadmium and zinc plated items, somewhere, to some degree, one can find traces of humidity induced oxidation of the metal. The finish on these 52-Set items is pristine. Once the dust settles with the new school term at the University of Manitoba, I would like to take the Remote Supply cover over to their Chemistry Department and see if they might have a none destructive means of testing this finish to determine what metal it is. I will need to know since several holes drilled into the back of my Remote Receiver case will need to be repaired and I would like to then have the case replated to completely restore the original look before painting. I have run across a few references to satin nickel plating being used on wartime electronic items intended for navy use and shiny nickel pated finishes show up quite regularly on valve covers in army equipment. Has anyone encountered written references to the use of a satin nickel electroplating on components of wartime wireless gear? David
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#96
22-09-18, 02:03
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I’ve been looking at the Master Parts List for the 52-Set, with regards to the five large rectangular electrical Plug and Socket assemblies. All are listed as replacement items, as complete assemblies. In spite of the fact they can be disassembled for repair, the only individual part that is separately listed is the Leaf Type Connector contacts for the socket assemblies. The Blade Type Connectors for the plug assemblies, is oddly not listed separately.
Now I wonder if these Plug and Socket assemblies are covered in more detail in the Parts Lists for other wireless equipment manufactured by Canadian Marconi? David
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#97
23-09-18, 17:16
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Further to the quest for information on the large rectangular bakelite 8-Pin Connector Plugs and Sockets on the 52-Set (as per Posts 28 and 35), can anyone with an original British made Wireless Set No. 9 confirm if these same connectors were used in the manufacture of the British No. 9 Sets? This may help trace the origin of these connectors.
David
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#98
26-09-18, 20:47
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I don't have access to a Canadian WS9 anymore but the schematic shows a similar style of connector as the WS52.
CMC only built the receiver for the WS9, the xmtr being built by Northern Electric. That would suggest that there was a third party manufacturer or somebody shared the product. Both companies had the capability to produce them.
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#99
27-09-18, 01:00
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That’s interesting news, Bruce. I was not aware of that production sharing for the Canadian Wireless Set No. 9.
There is an illustrated parts list on the British Royal Signals site for the Canadian No.9 Set I have requested a copy of, so will see what it shows for looks and nomenclature, compared to the 52-Set Cdn for these connectors. Then, with some luck we might be able to push the references back to what STC in England was doing. David
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#100
27-09-18, 02:17
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Quote:
Chris.
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#102
30-09-18, 04:24
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Finally got back to some thinking about the potential short in my Main Set Receiver Connector Socket this past week. In particular, the fact that I had noticed when connecting the Remote Supply Connector Plug to the socket, the retaining screw did not seem to run home as far as it did when I connected this cable to my backup receiver. That in turn got me wondering it this screw might be jamming on some loose bits inside and perhaps be part of the short problem.
Add to that, I was curious if it might be possible to isolate if the short was in the 12 Volt LT circuit, or the 150 Volt HT circuit. So I dug out my trusty old 2 Amp 12 Volt DC Trickle Battery Charger to jumper onto the 12 Volt circuit and see what happens. I first tested the charger output. It was producing 11.78 Volts DC, along with 6.69 Volts of AC. I first jumpered it to the +12Volt terminal on the backup receiver socket and negative to chassis ground. The panel indicator lamp on the backup receiver lit straight away and I got a reading on the meter of 8 Volts DC LT. Turned on the calibrater and its indicator lamp lit and the meter reading dropped to 7 Volts and held. I waited a minute, switched off the calibrator and the meter went back up to 8 Volts and held. I then switched the charger over to the Remote Receiver and jumpered it up in the same manner. The results were virtually identical to the backup receiver. I am pleased with those results. Next, I am basically going to repeat this test with the Remote Supply, using jumper cables for both the 12 Volt LT and 150 Volt HT circuits. Basically bypassing the physical connection of the Remote Supply Connector Cable to the receivers. Hopefully that will provide some further useful information. And while I was mucking about with the Connector Socket on the back of the backup receiver, I noticed the long paper label that runs across the middle of it with the Terminal IDs printed on it was missing. A closer look in that area revealed a cast oval mark with 'CMC' in the middle of it, about one third of the way in from one end. Photo attached. Pleased to finally find one of these marks and hope to find more as the project progresses. David
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#103
01-10-18, 18:00
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I did the jumpered test of the Remote Supply to the Remote Receiver late yesterday and the receiver lit up beautifully. After about a 10 minute warmup, I took meter readings for the valves. All registered and 'look' to be in the right range of values, but to be sure, I sent a copy of the recorded values to a friend in Arizona who operates a 52-Set Cdn on the air on a regular basis to see how my readings compare to his receiver.
The audio seemed a bit higher in white noise than it should and part of that may be some oxide build up on the various control contacts from lack of use over the years. The audio from the crystal calibrator was a bit weak but the 1000, 100 and 10 Kc pips could all be heard. The only fly in the ointment was a nil reading for HT on the meter. Likely suspect is the R58A resistor (or resistor pair as it turns out) may have gone South. Now if I can only figure out where the heck they hid the little sucker(s) on the chassis, I can test them and see how close I get to the rated 600,000 Ohm value. At least I have narrowed the short down to being intermittent and internal to the connector socket. It's nice to make progress on issues. David
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#104
03-10-18, 15:33
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I had the Remote Receiver setup up and running again last evening for about half an hour. I will probably do this for the next week or so to give all the little bits a chance to get used to electrons moving about again, and also give me an opportunity to work switches and dials mechanically. I did notice the tuning dial has a small arc of stiffness at one point, so will eventually get around to disassembling it for a cleaning. Nice that they are identical mechanically to the 19-Set ones.
I hooked the receiver up to my dipole last night as well and was able to find WWV in Ft. Collins quite easily at 5.00Kc. The signal drifted in and out quite a bit and there was a lot of crud jumping all over it, but it was there. Some of that crud may, in fact, be some weak tubes in the set, but HF propagation recently has been quite bad as well. David Last edited by David Dunlop; 04-10-18 at 02:08.
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#105
08-10-18, 22:20
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I have been running the Remote Receiver each evening for a week now, between 30 minutes and an hour each time.
The valve readings from the meter have stayed very close to those initially recorded when I first fired the receiver up. The background noise seems to have dropped off a bit on the loudspeaker when listening to the WWV Time Signal and this is still all with the RF Gain at 'maximum' and the AF Gain at very close to maximum. The crystal calibrator pips are still somewhat buried in the background noise. I decided to add another test to the mix on the weekend by checking out my Receivers, Headgear, MC, Mk.1 in both PHONES sockets. I figured this would tell me what both sockets were up to, that the Receivers Headgear worked and that the toggle switch between the loudspeaker and the headgear also functioned properly. Pleased to report all items responded correctly, but one point did surface I am curious about. This is the first ever wartime wireless set I have ever worked on/listened to that is equipped with an installed loudspeaker. What I noticed straight away was the level of background noise seemed much greater via the loudspeaker circuit than the headgear circuit. I had to back off the RF Gain nearly 1/4 from full maximum and the AF Gain by about 20 % from where these two controls were set for the loudspeaker, when I was listening to the set via the headgear. I also noticed that through the headgear, the crystal calibrator signal was very clear at all three positions compared to when listening with the loudspeaker. The speaker is identified as: LOUDSPEAKERS, 3-in, PM, 3.5 Ohms Now it is still quite possible that some of the valves are not fully up to standard and this may be influencing the level of background noise I am experiencing, but can anyone advise if, in general, it would be expected for a wartime era loudspeaker in a wireless set to have a noisier output than a set of headgear? David
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#106
13-10-18, 20:39
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At this point, some of you might be interested in what the 52-Set Remote Receiver setup looks like powered up, so here are a couple of photographs of the receiver warming up on it's own, and with the Crystal Calibrator also warming up.
Nice to see the red indicator lamps finally glowing. I cannot help wonder when that last happened. David
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#107
14-10-18, 19:27
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A sight to see emitting only photons and not smoke.
 Nice set, winter is coming, maybe a qso across the pond.
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#108
21-10-18, 01:55
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Yes, Bruce, I am quite pleased at how things have been progressing and I do hope the ethers tidy up over the Winter season enough to improve the listening experience.
I have been able to confirm that the R58A resistor in my Remote Receiver has packed it in. It is a pair of 1.2M Ohm resistors actually. The Master Parts List provides two options of a single 600K Ohm or the aforementioned pair, but of the three receivers I have for inspection, all are equipped with the paired arrangement. I wonder if the single resistor configuration was very early production, or very late? In any event, both of this particular pair are fully open and toast. I have tracked down a supply of carbon composite resistors that match the factory originals and once on hand will swap the offending pair out. Took a while to track down the location of the R58A on the chassis but did finally find them, with the help of a nice bright LED torch, sitting on the long terminal board on the underside of the chassis. See the attached photograph. They are the pair immediately right of the empty pair of terminals on the right half of the board. I think I may take some time to ID all the other components on this board for future reference. Particularly the resistors. In poor lighting, the background colour and the aging of colours can make it a bit of a challenge to spot the typical resistor colour codes easily. David
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#109
21-10-18, 02:17
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Quote:
Chris.
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#110
21-10-18, 02:46
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That would explain it, Chris. Thanks.
I did actually find one supplier in the States with NOS 600K Ohm carbon composite resistors correctly rated for this receiver, but passed on them because they seemed an odd/rare value and I wanted to maintain the original configuration of the Remote Receiver. Interestingly, this same supplier also has a stock of NOS in the box Delco Dynamotors for the 19-Set. Amazing what turns up when you don’t need it. David
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#111
21-10-18, 10:12
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Actually 600k was a standard value of resistance. The E series of resistance is the EIA values that weren't adopted until 1952. Prior to that resistors had values like 400k, 500k, 600k,etc. Have a look at an early Allied or other distributor catalogue. Same applied to early capacitors. Old values of 0.02 & 0.05 became 0.022 & 0.047, etc.
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#112
21-10-18, 15:51
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An interesting bit of Electronic History, Bruce. Thanks for the post.
Funny how we can sometimes grow up surrounded by a given set of standards and take them for granted as always having been there. Just checked my 3 year old Basic Amateur’s Course text and no mention of said standards transition for resistors or capacitors. Tubes/Valves are still given a mention, however. Life is indeed a never ending learning curve! David
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#113
29-10-18, 21:21
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A supply of vintage NOS Carbon Composition Resisters arrived today. The 1.2M Ohm ones needed to replace the dead pair in my Remote Receiver HT Meter Circuit. Shipped up within a week from Radio Daze.
Hopefully, once the dead pair of resisters is replaced, that final meter circuit will spring back to life and I will be that much further ahead in this phase of the project. I was also able to spend some more time detail cleaning bits of the receiver, in particular, the tuning dial Lots of nicotine came off the parts and a bit of surface rust around the dial rim. That work seems to have removed the small radius of sticking I was experiencing when rotating the dial. I did, however discover the course control knob of the slow motion drive has a wobble to it. Odd because it does not feel loose at all. It just rotates like a bent rim on a car. I will take a closer look shortly. If it is a bent control shaft assembly, I happen to have a spare in my 19-Set Bits Box, so can swap it out if the need arises. Once the meter is back to full functionality, it will be the valves that will get a closer inspection, which means a small hiatus from the 52-Set Project while I build a British Valve Adapter for my tube tester. David
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#114
01-11-18, 18:08
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I recently ran across a small stash of boxed, NOS Canadian Marconi valves for the Wireless Set No. 52 and at a price of $5.00 each (Cdn) could not walk away empty handed. When received, they turned out to be 5 ARP-3's and 1 12Y4.
Over 70 years of sitting, the cardboard packaging has suffered somewhat from moisture. I discovered this by reading the outer red sleeves, which are generic in design it turns out. They state that the relevant patent information can be found inside, but I could not see/find any such paperwork at all in the ARP-3 boxes. When I finally got to the 12Y4, I discovered the outer sleeve was indeed a sleeve. The valve slide neatly out of it, contained in an inner retainer. The outside of this retainer had the patent information printed on one side stating that the valves were "Licenced under Patents owned and/or controlled by Thermonics Limited." Patented 1925-1943 inclusive." I can find nothing at all on line now about Thermonics Limited so assume it has long since vanished from the business scene. On the side directly opposite on the inner retainer from the Patent information was the warranty information that referred the customer to a number of Radiotron offices across Canada for exchange/service. Interestingly, they had an office in Winnipeg at 356 Main Street. That was on the West side of Main Street, midway between Graham Avenue and Portage Avenue. That entire block was levelled in the 1970's and a major office tower complex constructed. At the time the Radiotron office existed, however, it would have been right next door to the CN/CP Telecommunications Centre in Winnipeg, the local hub of Telegraph activity in Manitoba. These inner retainers are generic in design as well, capable of holding any capped or uncapped valve of the appropriate size. a white strip on the cap end of the retainer bears a black stamped ID for the valve inside. I am guessing that Radiotron was a valve manufacturing division of the Canadian Marconi Company. Three of the ARP-3 valves are stamped with a manufacturing date of "10'41". The other two were 1943 dates I cannot recall and did not write down. When cleaning the valves in the Remote Receiver, I noted a number were dated "9/43" and some 1944 dates showed up as well. Note to self to document that data. No sign at all of any dating on the 12Y4's so far. David
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#115
02-11-18, 02:12
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Radiotron
A few things have puzzled me this morning about Radiotron, so I did a little digging. It became something of a 'Long Story Short…' sort of investigation.
Between the two World Wars last century, Radiotron was, indeed, a division of the Marconi Company in the United States. In the early 1920's, a massive merger of a number of electronics companies in the USA took place, key among them RCA, Westinghouse and Marconi. What came out the other side was a monster in the industry that thrived until anti-trust legislation in the 1930's forced it's breakup. During this time, Radiotron became the prime producer of valves for RCA, Marconi and Westinghouse. Interestingly, if one finds vintage valves in original packaging made prior to the 1950's from these three companies, they will be in the same red/orange and black colours, with variations in logo for each company and all showing the same Patent time frames. I dug out my spare valves for my 19-Sets and sure enough, a few RCA and Westinghouse valves showed up bearing the 'Radiotron' name. Thought I would share. David
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#116
05-11-18, 02:27
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I took a closer look at the Slow Motion Drive on the Remote Receiver this weekend and in the process noticed that the front, fine tuning knob seemed to be set too far back on the control shaft assembly. I compared this to my backup 52-Set receiver and my Mk III 19-Set and both confirmed the shaft should be set back into the fine control knob about 1/32-inch. I also noted there is a considerable space between the fine and course knobs. Time for a closer look.
The set screw in the fine tuning knob came out quite easily but when examining the shaft assembly I found the set screw was no where even close to the keyway in the shaft it is supposed to lock into. It was actually gripping the shaft an eighth of an inch back of the keyway. When I started on the course control knob, I discovered the set screw was located well into the knob and covered by years of dirt accumulation. Once I could reach it, it came out easily. This time as well, the set screw was not even close to its keyway. It had actually been tightened on the very leading edge of the course control shaft. Down the front face of it in fact. Only about half of the diameter of the course control knob was supported by its shaft and the set screw, when run home, acted like a lever, cocking the knob onto an angle. After taking the time to clean the Slow Motion Drive and knobs, I reattached the two knobs, taking care to get both set screws into their proper positions. End result, the Slow Motion Drive on my Remote Receiver now looks and operates like it should. Before and after photos are attached. David
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#117
09-11-18, 03:28
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Wireless Set No. 52 Tool Box
Thought I would refer back to Post #65 in this thread for a moment, dealing with the tool box for the 52-Set.
I am still looking for any details regarding the missing metal bracket mounted on the rear wall of the tool box, more or less opposite to the one on the front wall on the right side. Gauge of steel, dimensions and how held in place. I think it forms the right side support for the wooden hydrometer case. David
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#118
11-11-18, 23:34
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Got some more time in on the Remote Receiver after lunch today. I was able to remove the dead R58A pair of HT Meter Circuit resistors and swap in a new pair. And then the big test.
Really nice to see that circuit come to life on the meter once more. It has been running for about one half hour now and has maintained a steady 157 Volts DC. Replacing the R58A resistor set requires turning the chassis upside down to gain full access to the required panel board, To anyone doing similar work on one of these receivers, I would highly recommend you either remove the upper front panel assembly, or place the chassis upside down on a pair of 1.5 inch wood strips. When the upper panel assembly is in place, the upper lip of the panel actually sits above the top of the receiver chassis, If in place when upside down, the full weight of the receiver (some 40 pounds) will shove the upper panel down flush with the chassis. In doing so, it exerts all that load directly onto the two thin spring steel retainers for the two pins that fasten the upper panel in place. It is a load they were not designed to handle. Just a word of caution. David
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#119
16-11-18, 19:32
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WS No. 52 Cdn Boxes, Tools
Time for a little break from actual work on the Remote Receiver as the next phase of that work will involve going through all the available valves to ensure all said items are fully working. Once I know that, a more detailed bit of testing can be done to determine what, if any, other issues might be present that will need tweaking.
So actual work will shift temporarily, with this project to completion of the required British Valve Adapter, as well as me getting comfortable with learning how to use an oscilloscope that has been gathering dust on my work shelf for the last dozen years or so. But as far as the 52-Set Project overall goes, the topic of the Boxes, Tools for this set is very much worth revisiting. I covered it initially back in the 60's range of posts in this thread, with one of the photos in Post # 69 being the List of Tools for the box, glued to the inside of the lid. If you refer back to it, you will notice all the tools have a Canadian Marconi Company (CMC) based part number. Personally, I did not pay that much attention to that point at the time, however, upon reading through the 52-Set manual, I came across a photograph of all the tools for the 52-Set laid out with their corresponding descriptions and something about this photo jumped out at me and has been reinforced somewhat in light of some recent bits of information I have gleaned about the 52-Set tool box. I have posted the photo of the tools on this thread for the moment, but I will also be starting another new thread for the 52-Set Boxes, Tools in the "WW2 Military History & Equipment" thread on this forum. I will explain more with the start of that new thread shortly. David
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#120
21-11-18, 23:16
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WS No. 52 Cdn Cases, Operating, Remote, Receiver
This is the largest of the three wooden Boxes/Cases of equipment issued with the 52-Set Canadian. These photos are of one of these boxes courtesy of Chris Bisaillion.
The inside is divided into three sections. The centre section holds the Remote Supply Unit for the Remote Receiver. It is a heavy little sucker and this central location in the wooden case places it directly under the carry handle on the lid of the case, thereby keeping things nice and balanced for the lucky Private who has to lug it about. The left section stores the two headsets and the cables and remote aerial needed to operate the Remote Receiver. The right side section held the spare valves and other delicates for the receiver. You can see on the lid above this section, a square of KimPac padding to protect the valves. The rest of this section of the case was likewise padded. Originally, a square paper label would have been glued to the inside of the lid, listing all the contents of the case. This has been replaced, as of July, 1962 by an envelope with a new List of Contents utilizing the newly introduced NATO Stock Numbers. Hence the large wash of tan paint across the front of the case covering the original wartime stencilled ID and the new NATO Stock Number Data applied there. It is possible that 1962 saw the end of the WS. No. 52 Tool Box as a separate entity in the Canadian Army supply system. David
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