Newbie

Rookie · #1 09-10-07, 08:15

Hi all ex cop and Territorial NCO rebuilding a 1941 Chevrolet Portee. Will not offend the President of the Mess Committee at any time!!

Glad to be aboard

peter simundson · #2 09-10-07, 15:24

Fortunately for us all the President of the Mess Committee is Armour plated.!!!!!!

alleramilitaria · #3 10-10-07, 04:36

Mess Committee???
just what the heck is that???
i need to hit the subtitle button i guess.

i could never understand why everyone just cant speak simple american english

now you all know im kidding, dont need any more hate mail. im allready cursed with a plethera of carriers.

dave d
south of dallas north of mexico

Jon Skagfeld · #4 10-10-07, 06:36

Quote:

Originally posted by Rookie
Hi all ex cop and Territorial NCO rebuilding a 1941 Chevrolet Portee. Will not offend the President of the Mess Committee at any time!!

Glad to be aboard

Well, if you offend the PMC, you'll certainly wind up as i/c the Entertainment Committee.

Regards, and Welcome.

Wayne McGee · #5 10-10-07, 12:09

...jabbing a stick in his spokes is a time honoured tradition that no newbie shall muck with.
The next thing out of your mouth better be about his questionable parentage, poor hygeine, and improperly laced combat boots!
....welcome aboard...have fun!

Cheers

Wayne
PMC Heir Apparent

Lynn Eades · #6 10-10-07, 13:16

Careful Wayne, next thing you will find that your post contains extraordinary alterations and additions of notions not yet conceived in your own mind, this along with the realization that you do not have the degree of control that you previously thought you had over what you write in your posts.
........Or put another way.. Jiff alters your posts!!!
PMC? = Post Meddling Character.

Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP) · #7 10-10-07, 13:25

Dear chap, EVERYTHING I do is extraordinary! You'll get used to it, in time...

Tony Smith · #8 10-10-07, 13:38

Quote:

Originally posted by Rookie
Will not offend the President of the Mess Committee at any time!!

Glad to be aboard

Eric, welcome to the Forum and please take some time to read through the many wonderful posts already made by many members. You will very quickly come to the conclusion that it is almost MANDATORY to offend the President.

It's just one of the many reasons that MLU has become so popular!

Tony Smith · #9 10-10-07, 13:41

Quote:

Originally posted by alleramilitaria
im allready cursed with a plethera of carriers.

dave d
south of dallas north of mexico

Now what movie was that from?
Boss Mexican Bandito: "Would you say I have a plethora of friends?"
Bandido 1: "Err..."
Bandido 2: "Weeeeeel... um.."
Boss Bandit: "Come on! Do I have a plethora of friends or not? Hurry up or I'll shoot you both."
Bandido 1: "I wouldn't exactly say it like that."
Bandido 2: " I... I...Arrr"
Boss: (Gun to head of Bandido): "Do I have a plethora? Yes? No?"

And in the same scene:
Bandido: "But the Sherriff has a shiny badge"
Bandit Boss: "Badges? We don't need no steenkin' badges!"

Alex Blair (RIP) · #10 10-10-07, 14:31

Quote:

Originally posted by Tony Smith
Eric, welcome to the Forum and please take some time to read through the many wonderful posts already made by many members. You will very quickly come to the conclusion that it is almost MANDATORY to offend the President.

It's just one of the many reasons that MLU has become so popular!

Just to add a bit to Tonys post...
............If you have thin skin..do your self a favour and leave now...

Every one gets ragged over the coals on this forum,some more than others...weather you need it or not..sometimes just to get something going when times are slow.
...and no whining...
That we leave to those of us that have" THIER" CMP' parts and vehicles poached by others...
Welcome aboard..

Lynn Eades · #11 10-10-07, 21:14

No thread ever stays on subject. (including this one)

Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP) · #12 10-10-07, 22:31

Quote:

Originally posted by Lynn Eades
No thread ever stays on subject. (including this one)

Not here on MLU! I simply won't permit it...

David_Hayward (RIP) · #13 10-10-07, 23:35

and to Jif, aka Boss :

alleramilitaria · #14 10-10-07, 23:50

AGAIN
Mess Committee???
just what the heck is that???
i need to hit the subtitle button i guess.

Lynn Eades · #15 11-10-07, 00:04

That is our illustrious leader, Mr Winner take all

David_Hayward (RIP) · #16 11-10-07, 00:14

Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP) · #17 11-10-07, 00:29

David, you've got it all wrong! It's:

...followed by:

PPS · #18 11-10-07, 01:10

Thank you all.

You made me laugh when I was feeling rather "down"

Keep it up, all of you (and I don't mean that ambig...ambag...ambug..in another way)

Servicemen, and ex-service are the same the world over - strange senses of humour.

Paul.

Mike Timoshyk · #19 11-10-07, 01:45

this sense of humour is what binds us and keeps us for a lack of a better word, sane. (evil laugh) most notably is our remarkable way we manage stress through our most oft unpolitically correct black humour....which of course is saved for those most unique moments such as when under fire from friendlies or when you drop the crankshaft on the concrete when trying to manhandle it by yourself while holding a Tim Hortens cup between your teeth.

Alex Blair (RIP) · #20 11-10-07, 02:58

Quote:

Originally posted by alleramilitaria
AGAIN
Mess Committee???
just what the heck is that???
i need to hit the subtitle button i guess.

Dave..
I see your hand waving in the back..

Maybe this info will turn some lights on for you...
Once you read this you will relate much better,being an old military man your self,same sh*t..different language..

A mess is the place where military personnel socialise, eat and (in some cases) live. In some societies this military usage has extended to other disciplined services eateries such as civilian fire fighting and police forces.

Contents [hide]
1 Canada
2 India
3 Israel
3.1 Israeli Navy
4 United Kingdom
5 United States
5.1 United States Army
5.2 United States Air Force
6 See also
7 External links

[edit] Canada
Messing in the Canadian Forces generally follows the British model (see United Kingdom below), from whom most traditions have descended.

Basic regulations regarding the establishment and administration of messes is contained in the Queen's Regulations and Orders[1] and the Canadian Forces Administrative Orders[2].

As in the British Forces, there are normally three messes: the Officers' Mess (often called the Officers' Wardroom on Naval establishments), for commissioned officers and officer cadets; the Warrant Officers' and Sergeants' Mess (Navy: Chiefs' and Petty Officers' Mess), for senior non-commissioned officers and warrant officers; and the Junior Ranks Mess, for junior non-commissioned officers, privates, and seamen. Some bases, such as CFB Kingston in the 1980s, had a Master Corporals' Mess separate from the Junior Ranks'; these have since been amalgamated with the Junior Ranks' Messes.

Most bases and stations have three messes (Officers', Warrant Officers' and Sergeants', and Junior Ranks'). Many of these establishments have lodger units (such as Air Squadrons, Army Regiments, etc) who also have their own messes. All of Her Majesty's Canadian Ships have three messes aboard; this extends to Naval Reserve Divisions and other Naval shore establishments which bear the title HMCS (see stone frigate).

Due to limited budgets and declining revenues, many messes have been forced to close or amalgamate: for example, at CFS St. John's, the Junior Ranks' Mess of Newfoundland Militia District closed, its members moving to the Station's Junior Ranks'; the Station's Officers' Mess and Warrant Officers' and Sergeants' Mess later amalgamated.

Headgear is not worn in Canadian Messes, except:

by personnel on duty, such as a Duty or Watch Officer, or the Military Police;
as permitted on special occasions, such as during costume parties, theme events, etc;
by personnel for whom wearing headgear is mandatory (i.e. Religious reasons)
The usual "penalty" (which may only be executed if the offender voluntarily submits) applied to personnel who neglect to remove their headdress is to buy a round of drinks for the members present. The area from the entrance to the cloakroom, however, is normally considered a "neutral zone", and exempt from the no-headgear policy.

This prohibition is also extended to civilians, who are normally requested to remove their headdress upon entering; should they decline, they may be refused entry; they are not, however, normally subject to the "round for the house" rule.

All Canadian Forces personnel, Regular and Reserve, must belong to a mess, and are termed ordinary members of their particular mess. Although normally on Federal property, messes must comply with the legal drinking age laws of their province; for example, an 18-year-old soldier may legally consume alcohol in a Quebec mess, but not in one in Ontario, where the legal age is 19. However, despite being underage, the soldier may not be prohibited entry into the mess.

Canadian Forces personnel are normally welcome in any mess of their appropriate rank group, regardless of element; thus a Regimental Sergeant-Major of an Infantry battalion is welcome in a Chiefs' and Petty Officers' Mess (inter-service rivalries notwithstanding). Personnel of a different rank (except as noted below) must ask for permission to enter; that may be granted by the President of the Mess Committee, his designate, or the senior member present.

These restrictions are normally waived on certain special occasions, when the messes are "opened" to all personnel, regardless of rank. These occasions may include (and will be locally published by the Mess Committee):

New Year's Day, January 1, called a "Levee"
Canada Day, July 1
Remembrance Day, November 11
The Commanding Officer of the establishment or unit that owns the mess is permitted access to all his messes; thus a ship's captain has access to his vessel's Chiefs' and Petty Officers' Mess, the Commanding Officer of a regiment may enter any of his regimental messes, and the Base Commander of a Canadian Forces Base is welcome in any of his base's messes. In practice, Commanding Officers rarely enter anything other than the Officers' Mess unless invited, as a point of etiquette. In addition, duty personnel — such as a Duty NCO or Officer of the Watch — or the Military Police have access to any and all messes for the purposes of maintaining good order and discipline. Chaplains are usually welcomed in all messes.

As in the UK, Canadian messes are run by the Mess Committee, a group democratically elected by the members of the mess. The Committee members are generally the same as those of their British counterparts, with the addition of special representatives for such things as sports, housing, morale, etc. These positions are normally spelled out in the mess constitution.

Every mess has a constitution, which sets out the bylaws, regulations, and guidelines for such things as conduct of mess meetings, associate memberships, dress regulations within the mess, or booking of the mess by civilian organizations. The constitution and any amendments are voted upon by the members of the mess.

[edit] India
The Indian Army too follows a system which is quite similar to the British. A typical regiment/unit would have three messes. One for the commissioned officers, one for the Junior Commissioned Officers (JCO) and one for the NCOs. Havildars/Daffadars (equivalent to Sergeants) are considered to be NCOs and do not go to the officer's or JCO mess. The Air Force however has an SNCO (Sr. NCO) mess, in which Warrant Officers and Sergeants would be members, while the lower ranks would be members in the NCOs mess.

In the officer's mess and the JCO's mess, there also is rank of Mess Havildar. A Mess Havildar is a senior NCO, who manages and executes the day to day activities of the mess.

On Republic Day (January 26th) the officers are formally invited for a lunch at the JCOs mess. The same is recriprocated on Independence Day (August 15th), by the Officers.

[edit] Israel

[edit] Israeli Navy
In the Israeli Navy, although Hebrew speaking, Dining rooms in the Saar 5 Missile Boats, and the kitchen in the Patrol Boats are named Messes, Crew Mess and Officer's Mess. Also, every special meal brought by a crewman, say celebrating a birthday or a rank promotion, is called Mess. Few of the soldiers in the Israeli Navy actually know the origins of the word, offering alternative explanations, such as "Short for Messiba (party in Hebrew)".

The word is probably left over from the British Royal Navy.

[edit] United Kingdom
On a British Army or RAF station, there are usually three messes: the Officers' Mess, for commissioned officers, the Sergeants' Mess, for senior non-commissioned officers (SNCOs) and warrant officers (WOs), and the Junior Ranks' Mess (JRM), for junior ranks. Officers and senior NCOs usually live (if they are unmarried and do not want to live off base), eat and socialise in their messes, whereas junior ranks usually just eat there, being accommodated in barrack blocks and socialising in the NAAFI.

There are various customs associated with the messes. When a senior officer is visiting an officers' mess, they will leave their hat on the table in the foyer to give fair warning of their presence. In the JRM it is customary for personnel to hide their badges of rank, thus everyone becomes the same level. Headdresses are removed upon entering a mess (soldiers without headdress are out of uniform, and soldiers out of uniform cannot salute). The typical tradition is that anyone wearing a form of headdress inside the mess must buy a round of drinks.

All soldiers belong to a mess, which is typically located near the unit's HQ. Messes have dues (monthly or yearly, depending upon the mess) and are non-profit. This allows the messes to often have substantially lower prices when compared with civilian bars. A soldier is welcome in any mess equivalent to his rank, as long as he is paying dues in at least one mess. Any soldier of a different rank (excluding the unit's commanding officer, the duty officer, duty NCO and military police) must ask permission to enter the mess. No discipline can arise for not allowing someone of higher rank into a mess, or not doing so in a timely manner. One is often required to buy a round to be allowed entry into a mess. The main exceptions are for the duty officer and duty NCO, who are required to keep order in the mess.

A mess is run by the mess committee, a group democratically elected by the members of the mess.

President of the Mess Committee (Mr PMC)
Vice President of the Mess Committee (Mr Vice), who is responsible for toasts during mess dinners.
Treasurer
Secretary, who is responsible for records and minutes, etc.
Barman, who is responsible for keeping the bar stocked.
House, who is responsible for furniture and for any special events or parties in the mess.
Despite it being a democracy, the commanding officer (CO) of the unit has right of veto over the mess, and any large changes or events must have his approval. If reasonable requests are rejected then it is considered an abuse of power and can be appealed (except in battlefield conditions). Because of this, the CO is always allowed into the mess, but it is often considered an abuse of power, unbecoming conduct or disturbing the order for a CO to drink in a lower rank mess, except when invited on special occasions.

The officers' mess in a Navy ship or base is called the Wardroom.

Mess dress is the military term for the formal evening dress worn in the mess or at other formal occasions. It is also known as mess kit. Mess dress would be worn at occasions requiring white tie or black tie as the dress.

[edit] United States

[edit] United States Army
In the United States Army, the mess is called a mess hall. The Officers' Club is somewhat comparable to the Officer's Mess. A mess can also refer to the formal afair of having a dining in/out. A dining in being held for military members and is closed to the public. A dining out is a social event for military personnel and their families.

[edit] United States Air Force
Social clubs on United States Air Force installations were at one time called Open Messes, even though most were known in vernacular as Officers Clubs or NCO clubs. At one time each squadron had its club, but these disappeared after World War II and the club became a facility of a base rather than a unit. Most are now officially referred to as officer or enlisted clubs; the term "mess" has largely disappeared from the Air Force lexicon. Though a few bases (usually major training bases) have separate Airmen's Clubs for junior enlisted and NCO Clubs for noncommissioned officers, this is no longer normally the case. Physically separate Officers' Clubs are still the norm; however, smaller Air Force installations may have one consolidated club with separate lounges. Membership is voluntary, though highly encouraged for senior NCOs and officers. Most NCO and Officers Clubs contain a sit-down restaurant in addition to social lounges, meeting/dining rooms, and bars.

Mess halls in the USAF, where unmarried junior enlisted residing in the dormitories are expected to eat, are officially referred to as "dining facilities," but are colloquially called "chow halls," although dining facility workers traditionally take offense at the term

Lynn Eades · #21 11-10-07, 03:47

....Is there a prize for the longest post???....

Rookie · #22 11-10-07, 04:00

Boy am I embarrassed all I did was make mention of a PMC (which is the customary thing) What a plethora, to quote another poster has arrived. I accept that JIF is PMC I dont know who is Mr Vice but I am quite happy to establish a formal dinner on my property, in the male bonding area, where all protocol and niceties are acknowledged and tribute paid (I see I have an ally in Tauranga)

All you posters book your trips to Peka Preka Beach New Zealand for a formal dinner, subjects not allowed during the passing of the port are religion, politics and of course New Zealand and Australias (ANZACS) demise from the Rugby World Cup

Rookie
ex Mr Vice (NZIR, RNZAOC)

Tony Smith · #23 11-10-07, 05:12

Quote:

Originally posted by Rookie
All you posters book your trips to Peka Preka Beach New Zealand for a formal dinner, subjects not allowed during the passing of the port are religion, politics and of course New Zealand and Australias (ANZACS) demise from the Rugby World Cup

Rookie
ex Mr Vice (NZIR, RNZAOC)

A Priest, a Rabbi, Helen Clark and Jonah Lomu walk into a bar.
The Barman looks up and says: "Hey what is this? Some kind of a joke?"

alleramilitaria · #24 11-10-07, 05:47

edit] United States Army
In the United States Army, the mess is called a mess hall. The Officers' Club is somewhat comparable to the Officer's Mess. A mess can also refer to the formal afair of having a dining in/out. A dining in being held for military members and is closed to the public. A dining out is a social event for military personnel and their families.

[edit] United States Air Force
Social clubs on United States Air Force installations were at one time called Open Messes, even though most were known in vernacular as Officers Clubs or NCO clubs. At one time each squadron had its club, but these disappeared after World War II and the club became a facility of a base rather than a unit. Most are now officially referred to as officer or enlisted clubs; the term "mess" has largely disappeared from the Air Force lexicon. Though a few bases (usually major training bases) have separate Airmen's Clubs for junior enlisted and NCO Clubs for noncommissioned officers, this is no longer normally the case. Physically separate Officers' Clubs are still the norm; however, smaller Air Force installations may have one consolidated club with separate lounges. Membership is voluntary, though highly encouraged for senior NCOs and officers. Most NCO and Officers Clubs contain a sit-down restaurant in addition to social lounges, meeting/dining rooms, and bars.

Mess halls in the USAF, where unmarried junior enlisted residing in the dormitories are expected to eat, are officially referred to as "dining facilities," but are colloquially called "chow halls," although dining facility workers traditionally take offense at the term

you are working off some old data
mess halls are now nearly 90% civilian run with the only military personell being afew cooks and the SR NCO on duty. most of the people cooking are civilians. the only time you normaly catch the CO and other officers there is for thanksgiving dinner and christmas where they serv the food in there dress uniforms to the lower enlisted. there are no NCO or officer messes in the US army outside of DC.

nearly all the EM and NCO clubs are now closed, they are renamed multi use centers. this is due to all the off post clubs (90+ for the 101 abn in clarksvill ky, 30+ near ft hood tx, with 100+ more in nearby auston tx )

officers clubs are opened and cater to some functions but normaly are used as confrence centers and officers wives clubs.

i think what you are talking about is our dining ins and outs. there we have the president, VP, master at arms, etc.... at the dining outs the wives are there and the troops are expected to act proper (everyone hates it!!!). dining ins are where the fights and drunking gets out of hand. THE DINING INS AND OUTS FOR THE MOST PART ARE NOT HELD ON POST ANY MORE.

for the USAF everyone now draws money for food in his check and that has killed the mess hall. there is still one but you have to pay for the items by swiping your ID so everyone who wants to can eat there or at the other places on post / base.

dave d

Jon Skagfeld · #25 11-10-07, 05:54

Quote:

Originally posted by Tony Smith
Now what movie was that from?
Boss Mexican Bandito: "Would you say I have a plethora of friends?"
Bandido 1: "Err..."
Bandido 2: "Weeeeeel... um.."
Boss Bandit: "Come on! Do I have a plethora of friends or not? Hurry up or I'll shoot you both."
Bandido 1: "I wouldn't exactly say it like that."
Bandido 2: " I... I...Arrr"
Boss: (Gun to head of Bandido): "Do I have a plethora? Yes? No?"

And in the same scene:
Bandido: "But the Sherriff has a shiny badge"
Bandit Boss: "Badges? We don't need no steenkin' badges!"

It's "The Treasure of the Sierra Madre" (1948).

Hey, BTW Tony...you're getting awfully mouthy, posting all over the Forum, since you got admitted to the Officers' Mess.

, etc, etc...

Jon Skagfeld · #26 11-10-07, 06:12

Quote:

Originally posted by Alex Blair
Dave..
I see your hand waving in the back..

Maybe this info will turn some lights on for you...
Once you read this you will relate much better,being an old military man your self,same sh*t..different language..

A mess is the place where military personnel socialise, eat and (in some cases) live. In some societies this military usage has extended to other disciplined services eateries such as civilian fire fighting and police forces.

Contents [hide]
1 Canada
2 India
3 Israel
3.1 Israeli Navy
4 United Kingdom
5 United States
5.1 United States Army
5.2 United States Air Force
6 See also
7 External links

[edit] Canada
Messing in the Canadian Forces generally follows the British model (see United Kingdom below), from whom most traditions have descended.

Basic regulations regarding the establishment and administration of messes is contained in the Queen's Regulations and Orders[1] and the Canadian Forces Administrative Orders[2].

As in the British Forces, there are normally three messes: the Officers' Mess (often called the Officers' Wardroom on Naval establishments), for commissioned officers and officer cadets; the Warrant Officers' and Sergeants' Mess (Navy: Chiefs' and Petty Officers' Mess), for senior non-commissioned officers and warrant officers; and the Junior Ranks Mess, for junior non-commissioned officers, privates, and seamen. Some bases, such as CFB Kingston in the 1980s, had a Master Corporals' Mess separate from the Junior Ranks'; these have since been amalgamated with the Junior Ranks' Messes.

Most bases and stations have three messes (Officers', Warrant Officers' and Sergeants', and Junior Ranks'). Many of these establishments have lodger units (such as Air Squadrons, Army Regiments, etc) who also have their own messes. All of Her Majesty's Canadian Ships have three messes aboard; this extends to Naval Reserve Divisions and other Naval shore establishments which bear the title HMCS (see stone frigate).

Due to limited budgets and declining revenues, many messes have been forced to close or amalgamate: for example, at CFS St. John's, the Junior Ranks' Mess of Newfoundland Militia District closed, its members moving to the Station's Junior Ranks'; the Station's Officers' Mess and Warrant Officers' and Sergeants' Mess later amalgamated.

Headgear is not worn in Canadian Messes, except:

by personnel on duty, such as a Duty or Watch Officer, or the Military Police;
as permitted on special occasions, such as during costume parties, theme events, etc;
by personnel for whom wearing headgear is mandatory (i.e. Religious reasons)
The usual "penalty" (which may only be executed if the offender voluntarily submits) applied to personnel who neglect to remove their headdress is to buy a round of drinks for the members present. The area from the entrance to the cloakroom, however, is normally considered a "neutral zone", and exempt from the no-headgear policy.

This prohibition is also extended to civilians, who are normally requested to remove their headdress upon entering; should they decline, they may be refused entry; they are not, however, normally subject to the "round for the house" rule.

All Canadian Forces personnel, Regular and Reserve, must belong to a mess, and are termed ordinary members of their particular mess. Although normally on Federal property, messes must comply with the legal drinking age laws of their province; for example, an 18-year-old soldier may legally consume alcohol in a Quebec mess, but not in one in Ontario, where the legal age is 19. However, despite being underage, the soldier may not be prohibited entry into the mess.

Canadian Forces personnel are normally welcome in any mess of their appropriate rank group, regardless of element; thus a Regimental Sergeant-Major of an Infantry battalion is welcome in a Chiefs' and Petty Officers' Mess (inter-service rivalries notwithstanding). Personnel of a different rank (except as noted below) must ask for permission to enter; that may be granted by the President of the Mess Committee, his designate, or the senior member present.

These restrictions are normally waived on certain special occasions, when the messes are "opened" to all personnel, regardless of rank. These occasions may include (and will be locally published by the Mess Committee):

New Year's Day, January 1, called a "Levee"
Canada Day, July 1
Remembrance Day, November 11
The Commanding Officer of the establishment or unit that owns the mess is permitted access to all his messes; thus a ship's captain has access to his vessel's Chiefs' and Petty Officers' Mess, the Commanding Officer of a regiment may enter any of his regimental messes, and the Base Commander of a Canadian Forces Base is welcome in any of his base's messes. In practice, Commanding Officers rarely enter anything other than the Officers' Mess unless invited, as a point of etiquette. In addition, duty personnel — such as a Duty NCO or Officer of the Watch — or the Military Police have access to any and all messes for the purposes of maintaining good order and discipline. Chaplains are usually welcomed in all messes.

As in the UK, Canadian messes are run by the Mess Committee, a group democratically elected by the members of the mess. The Committee members are generally the same as those of their British counterparts, with the addition of special representatives for such things as sports, housing, morale, etc. These positions are normally spelled out in the mess constitution.

Every mess has a constitution, which sets out the bylaws, regulations, and guidelines for such things as conduct of mess meetings, associate memberships, dress regulations within the mess, or booking of the mess by civilian organizations. The constitution and any amendments are voted upon by the members of the mess.

[edit] India
The Indian Army too follows a system which is quite similar to the British. A typical regiment/unit would have three messes. One for the commissioned officers, one for the Junior Commissioned Officers (JCO) and one for the NCOs. Havildars/Daffadars (equivalent to Sergeants) are considered to be NCOs and do not go to the officer's or JCO mess. The Air Force however has an SNCO (Sr. NCO) mess, in which Warrant Officers and Sergeants would be members, while the lower ranks would be members in the NCOs mess.

In the officer's mess and the JCO's mess, there also is rank of Mess Havildar. A Mess Havildar is a senior NCO, who manages and executes the day to day activities of the mess.

On Republic Day (January 26th) the officers are formally invited for a lunch at the JCOs mess. The same is recriprocated on Independence Day (August 15th), by the Officers.

[edit] Israel

[edit] Israeli Navy
In the Israeli Navy, although Hebrew speaking, Dining rooms in the Saar 5 Missile Boats, and the kitchen in the Patrol Boats are named Messes, Crew Mess and Officer's Mess. Also, every special meal brought by a crewman, say celebrating a birthday or a rank promotion, is called Mess. Few of the soldiers in the Israeli Navy actually know the origins of the word, offering alternative explanations, such as "Short for Messiba (party in Hebrew)".

The word is probably left over from the British Royal Navy.

[edit] United Kingdom
On a British Army or RAF station, there are usually three messes: the Officers' Mess, for commissioned officers, the Sergeants' Mess, for senior non-commissioned officers (SNCOs) and warrant officers (WOs), and the Junior Ranks' Mess (JRM), for junior ranks. Officers and senior NCOs usually live (if they are unmarried and do not want to live off base), eat and socialise in their messes, whereas junior ranks usually just eat there, being accommodated in barrack blocks and socialising in the NAAFI.

There are various customs associated with the messes. When a senior officer is visiting an officers' mess, they will leave their hat on the table in the foyer to give fair warning of their presence. In the JRM it is customary for personnel to hide their badges of rank, thus everyone becomes the same level. Headdresses are removed upon entering a mess (soldiers without headdress are out of uniform, and soldiers out of uniform cannot salute). The typical tradition is that anyone wearing a form of headdress inside the mess must buy a round of drinks.

All soldiers belong to a mess, which is typically located near the unit's HQ. Messes have dues (monthly or yearly, depending upon the mess) and are non-profit. This allows the messes to often have substantially lower prices when compared with civilian bars. A soldier is welcome in any mess equivalent to his rank, as long as he is paying dues in at least one mess. Any soldier of a different rank (excluding the unit's commanding officer, the duty officer, duty NCO and military police) must ask permission to enter the mess. No discipline can arise for not allowing someone of higher rank into a mess, or not doing so in a timely manner. One is often required to buy a round to be allowed entry into a mess. The main exceptions are for the duty officer and duty NCO, who are required to keep order in the mess.

A mess is run by the mess committee, a group democratically elected by the members of the mess.

President of the Mess Committee (Mr PMC)
Vice President of the Mess Committee (Mr Vice), who is responsible for toasts during mess dinners.
Treasurer
Secretary, who is responsible for records and minutes, etc.
Barman, who is responsible for keeping the bar stocked.
House, who is responsible for furniture and for any special events or parties in the mess.
Despite it being a democracy, the commanding officer (CO) of the unit has right of veto over the mess, and any large changes or events must have his approval. If reasonable requests are rejected then it is considered an abuse of power and can be appealed (except in battlefield conditions). Because of this, the CO is always allowed into the mess, but it is often considered an abuse of power, unbecoming conduct or disturbing the order for a CO to drink in a lower rank mess, except when invited on special occasions.

The officers' mess in a Navy ship or base is called the Wardroom.

Mess dress is the military term for the formal evening dress worn in the mess or at other formal occasions. It is also known as mess kit. Mess dress would be worn at occasions requiring white tie or black tie as the dress.

[edit] United States

[edit] United States Army
In the United States Army, the mess is called a mess hall. The Officers' Club is somewhat comparable to the Officer's Mess. A mess can also refer to the formal afair of having a dining in/out. A dining in being held for military members and is closed to the public. A dining out is a social event for military personnel and their families.

[edit] United States Air Force
Social clubs on United States Air Force installations were at one time called Open Messes, even though most were known in vernacular as Officers Clubs or NCO clubs. At one time each squadron had its club, but these disappeared after World War II and the club became a facility of a base rather than a unit. Most are now officially referred to as officer or enlisted clubs; the term "mess" has largely disappeared from the Air Force lexicon. Though a few bases (usually major training bases) have separate Airmen's Clubs for junior enlisted and NCO Clubs for noncommissioned officers, this is no longer normally the case. Physically separate Officers' Clubs are still the norm; however, smaller Air Force installations may have one consolidated club with separate lounges. Membership is voluntary, though highly encouraged for senior NCOs and officers. Most NCO and Officers Clubs contain a sit-down restaurant in addition to social lounges, meeting/dining rooms, and bars.

Mess halls in the USAF, where unmarried junior enlisted residing in the dormitories are expected to eat, are officially referred to as "dining facilities," but are colloquially called "chow halls," although dining facility workers traditionally take offense at the term

Good grief, Alex...are ya finished?

Rookie · #27 11-10-07, 06:31

I'm sorry I started it I note that New Zealand was left out of the list of protocol!!

I enjoyed the formal WO's & Sgts Mess, there was fellowship and an exchange of information about your other ranks. Most of the talk was in shorthand especially when it was "relaxed dress"

The information posted is really informative. I think the main thing was that were very formal times that recognised the people that had been in the Mess before you.

I love the discussion, our Mess Rules would have taken about 25 pages and were dully ignored.

As I see it JIF is PMC , Mr Vice is normally the junior member who proposes the toasts everyone else normally gets into their cups!!

Rookie

Lynn Eades · #28 11-10-07, 07:29

I dont think your such a rookie,... and Jon!.... Damn You Jon! You made me read it again!!!!

peter simundson · #29 11-10-07, 21:54

" It's the Mens Mess....Let them clean it up!"

Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP) · #30 11-10-07, 22:20

Quote:

Originally posted by Jon Skagfeld
Good grief, Alex...are ya finished?

Alex was 'finished' the moment he chose RCAF blue over good ol' fashioned olive drab, but then that's a subject for another one of MLU's patented intellectual debates, isn't it?