Re-enactor status

Jon Skagfeld · #1 12-12-09, 16:57

At what point can one consider oneself to be a re-enactor?

There are many historical periods that are portrayed.

However, should I decide to attend a militaria event or perhaps a cruise night garbed in monochrome combat uniform, with 1962 pattern webbing ("Velcro"), sporting a legally deactivated FN and driving a 1971 ex military jeep, would I have crossed the line? If so, just where is the line?

Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP) · #2 12-12-09, 17:06

Gee Jon, I didn't think they made uniforms that big...

Kent Aist · #3 12-12-09, 17:29

To be a re-enactor you have to be enacting something, not just driving around.

Kent

Jon Skagfeld · #4 12-12-09, 18:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geoff Winnington-Ball

Gee Jon, I didn't think they made uniforms that big...

Doesn't your post belong in "Some Funnies"?

Mike Timoshyk · #5 12-12-09, 20:04

Hi Jon,

To be quite honest with you, in my opinion, wearing your garb while displaying your vehicle brings more to the display. Think of those in their 567 chevies with while t shirts and honeys in saddle shoes....what are they doing...enhancing the vehicle with period dress. Now if you want to go running around with full kit going bang-bang with a EMS unit on hand ....I would consider that reenacting. If you really don't want to wear a full uniform...do a M.A.S.H. type with hawaiian shirt, a stethascope and a 3 wood.

My 3 cents worth...

cheers

Mike

Mark W. Tonner · #6 12-12-09, 20:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon Skagfeld

At what point can one consider oneself to be a re-enactor? There are many historical periods that are portrayed.

... why not just portray the first rank you ever held ... that of a Centurion ...

... or are sandals to cool on your toes this time of year ...

Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP) · #7 12-12-09, 20:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark W. Tonner

... why not just portray the first rank you ever held ... that of a Centurion ...

... or are sandals to cool on your toes this time of year ...

Now THERE'S the pot talking to the kettle...

Mark W. Tonner · #8 12-12-09, 20:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geoff Winnington-Ball

Now THERE'S the pot talking to the kettle...

... and Moses being a good 2 i/c, ordered three rounds of illumination ...

Jon Skagfeld · #9 13-12-09, 02:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark W. Tonner

... why not just portray the first rank you ever held ... that of a Centurion ...

... or are sandals to cool on your toes this time of year ...

Mark, Join Sunray in "Some Funnies".

Go ahead ya buggers, I got broad shoulders.

I joined because I had a sense of humour, right?

Jon Skagfeld · #10 13-12-09, 02:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark W. Tonner

... and Moses being a good 2 i/c, ordered three rounds of illumination ...

But also, Moses, not being a seafaring person, upon the command "Hard to port", turned hard to starboard and rammed the craft into the bullrushes.

Thus it came about...

This thread, started seriously (!), has become somewhat Pythonesque, but good fun, nevertheless.

Mike Timoshyk · #11 13-12-09, 02:22

Hi Jon,

Forgot to mention.....if you are a card carrying "actor" good or bad and you dressed up it would not be considered reenacting....you would be considered a "thesbian".....(now watch the comments fly ROTFLMAO) and it would be acting vice reenacting...even if it is a one-man-show

cheers

mike

servicepub (RIP) · #12 13-12-09, 02:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon Skagfeld

At what point can one consider oneself to be a re-enactor?

There are many historical periods that are portrayed.

However, should I decide to attend a militaria event or perhaps a cruise night garbed in monochrome combat uniform, with 1962 pattern webbing ("Velcro"), sporting a legally deactivated FN and driving a 1971 ex military jeep, would I have crossed the line? If so, just where is the line?

I am in the same boat, er.. jeep. I don't know that I would go to the Canadian Tire cruise night with FN and /or SMG but I would definietely bring that kind of hardware to a military re-enactment or living history event, i.e., Legion parades, commemorations, MilVeh shows, etc...
I am hesitant to wear current rank on OD64 so I am looking for the earlier pips as worn on 'combats'. Those and the early Robin Hood cap should avoid a lot of barbed comments from serving Militiamen with 3 months service.
Having seen some of the slobs (flame war may commence now) from Southern Ontario MilVeh clubs who showed up in Ottawa wearing parts of OD64, with beer bellies, unshaven, unkempt, etc... I would prefer that these types not wear any uniform - in part or complete.
Our very own Gunner just had Bush uniforms reproduced and they ain't bad. My jacket's a bit short but I should have ordered a 'long' as that is what I do at Moore's. The beauty of Bush uniform is that our M38/M38A1/M37/Ferrets and others were all used at that time.

Jon Skagfeld · #13 13-12-09, 02:33

Thesbian ? did you mean thespian? Am I missing a nuance here, or am I subject to a baldy haired guy's mis-spelling?

Man, am I having misgivings about posting this thread. Great riposte, but little serious input.

Mike: I tend to agree with your viewpoint about enhancement of a display. What I guess I'm really concerned about is that monochrome cbt + FN + webbing + Jeep might be too close to recent CF dress/equipment, that some might feel affronted.

Clive, just read your post. Thanks. I feel that we're on the same wavelength avec your thoughts.

Mark W. Tonner · #14 13-12-09, 02:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon Skagfeld

... I joined because I had a sense of humour, right? ...

Jon;

... that may be true, but don’t you remember that far back, that as soon as you swore your oath of allegiance to Queen and Country, they took your sense of humour away and re-issued it to an officer, who even today never seem to have one ...

Mike Timoshyk · #15 13-12-09, 03:06

Jon,

As Clive suggests....and as I do....I always bring all kinds of kit to the show and shines....it ALL stays in or on the vehilce on display. What is really cool is when all the Corvette, Duece Coup, and other car owners come over and say in good natured jest "how come all the viewers take pics of your dirty (it adds to the theme) little jeep and not our cars" "Ah because every guy was a kid once who played "war games"....and todays kids are far more knowledgeable about weapons systems that I was when I was a kid. That is because of video games.....nothing like some 9 year old asking you if you have a Garand and the father says "whats a Garand?"

cheers

myke

Jon Skagfeld · #16 13-12-09, 03:07

Mark: According to one of your previous posts, my oath would have been to Caesar and the Republic.

SPQR.

Sorry, Mike...I seem to cross post when other posts are coming in. Doesn't help with the continuity...but then, that's a theatrical thespian's concern, isn't it?

Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP) · #17 13-12-09, 03:16

Jon, with three CDs under your belt, I think you're entitled to wear whatever uniform you choose, and if anyone's going to give you an argument about that, I'll stand beside you.

Jim Price · #18 13-12-09, 03:37

This one's for all the Canadians in the crowds here. There's a number of them who winter in Arizona and the kit gives them a little something from home.

Best regards,
Jim

Mark W. Tonner · #19 13-12-09, 03:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Price

This one's for all the Canadians in the crowds here. There's a number of them who winter in Arizona and the kit gives them a little something from home.

Best regards,
Jim

Looking Good Jim!

Bruce MacMillan · #20 13-12-09, 03:50

Out here in the west we have a kind of unwritten rule that you don't wear the uniform of a person who held a Queen's commission (in Jon's case an Emperor's commission). Everything else is fair game as long as it is not a current serving uniform. Once a uniform becomes obsolete it is merely a costume.

Whether or not it might offend someone, you'd be surprised at how the eyes light up when some of these vets see the old uniforms they served in.

edstorey · #21 13-12-09, 06:11

Bruce, clowns wear costumes, old or new a uniform is a uniform and wearing it represents the profession of arms for the particular period. To refer a uniform as a costume is not only an insult to those who once wore the uniform but opens the door for those who lack the knownledge or respect to wear them any way they please.

I would much rather see the vehicle owner wearing jeans and T shirt with his/her restored vehicle rather then sporting a uniform that they have no idea how to wear or are too old and out of shape to even look the part of a serving soldier.

I am approaching the second clasp to my CD and all that entitles me to wear is DEUs and CADPAT, as far as I am concerned that decoration gives me no special status to wear whatever old uniform I want.

Mike Timoshyk · #22 13-12-09, 06:27

Ed,

Are you implying that you would not and have not worn any uniform except for DEU and CADPAT?

Just curious....

Mike

Bruce MacMillan · #23 13-12-09, 06:38

Hi Ed,

I appreciate your emotive concern. The use of the word "costume" has a variety of meanings. According to the Random House dictionary one is " a style of dress, including accessories, especially peculiar to a nation, social class or historical period". If you limit your thinking to clowns...well.

My reference to an obsolete uniform being a costume is based on a legality issue. I believe it is illegal for a non-serving member of our armed forces to wear a current serving uniform. Once the uniform has been obsoleted it becomes legally a mere costume. We see people wearing P37 down to Fraser Highlanders. All are "costumes".

I salute you on your service. I hope you get your second clasp.

edstorey · #24 13-12-09, 07:58

Mike, I am not implying that at all. In my 20s and 30s for certain occasions I would wear BD and SD, once in my 40s I stopped wearing these uniforms as I felt that I no longer accurately represented what a Great War or Second War soldier looked like.

Bruce, thanks for the dictionary definition and yes there is a legality issue with wearing uniforms although the law was for those who intend to pass themselves off as members of the military and not those who are representing how a uniform looked for a certain period.

The costume issue is the fundamental problem that the majority of the re-enacting community has, because the garment being worn is perceived to be a costume or a non-uniform, you get all manner of humanity who now feel that they can somehow dress up as military. A uniform, old or new, reflects the profession or arms from the period that is being represented and hiding behind a dictionary definition does not diminish the fact that there is a very small percentage of the re-enacting community who understand what a uniform represents.

Thankfully, the small percentage who understand that do a fine job of representing their respective periods of study.

Mike Timoshyk · #25 13-12-09, 20:20

I understand Ed. What I found interesting while touring the Commonwealth War Graves throughout Europe and the Middle East was the number of older soldiers particularly in the First War. The meat-grinder of trench warfare with its terribly high attrition rate and the indiscriminate shelling in the rear led to the recruitment of many of the older soldiers such as my grandfather who served...particularly in the Service Corps. This was true in WW2 as well. To be sure the pointy end of the stick is always reserved for the young...and many Arty and Armoured guys found themselves seconded to infantry units as replacements as a result of shortages due to casualties and recruitment issues. One of my uncles was a good friend and fellow Offier who served with Connie Smythe. He often spoke of how through Connie's celebrity status Connie was able to overcome the unwritten understanding that Officers would not speak publicly about the sometimes desperate shortages the army was experiencing in the field. Perhaps it is time for us old codgers to reflect on the service of the Veterans Guard and the Training Cadres.

cheers

Mike

Grant Bowker · #26 13-12-09, 21:29

First, it is your vehicle and uniform so you can do what you want.
I have considered whether I want to have uniform once I actually have a resored truck instead of a collection of partially restored pieces. I have decided that given my age and lack of resemblance to a fit young warrior the most appropriate clothing (whether uniform or costume) would be coveralls of cut and material resembling what a civilian driver/mechanic of the period working for the army might have worn. I think this might end up with the most realistic representation of something that might have been seen in the period the truck was used.
My 2 cents worth, only valid for me.

Alex Blair (RIP) · #27 13-12-09, 21:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grant Bowker

First, it is your vehicle and uniform so you can do what you want.
I have considered whether I want to have uniform once I actually have a resored truck instead of a collection of partially restored pieces. I have decided that given my age and lack of resemblance to a fit young warrior the most appropriate clothing (whether uniform or costume) would be coveralls of cut and material resembling what a civilian driver/mechanic of the period working for the army might have worn. I think this might end up with the most realistic representation of something that might have been seen in the period the truck was used.
My 2 cents worth, only valid for me.

Hear ..Hear..Grant..!!
I still have my original uniforms..or pieces and parts of them and would no more wear them again out in public..although I could as I weigh 25 pounds less than I did when I got out in '77...
I am proud of my service record..my uniforms and decoration..my do dads and shiny patches earned along the way..but those days are gone..
But the coveralls you propose would suit me to a tee in a CMP gather up senario..most practical piece of gear invented..Nice loose..lots of ball room ..comfortable and have the ability to absorb vast amounts of water ..grease..oil..hydraulic fluid...beer ..whiskey..coffee..puke...on the ocassion even piss..if one passes out while in "Uniform"after a long bout of "training"..
Yes//I like the coverall option..
(Hope your dad is getting along better..Heard he was ill..)

Scrivo18 · #28 14-12-09, 00:55

Hi Everyone

I have just participated in a Military Vehicle event/ convoy down to Tasmania, part of the reqirement to participate was that you wore uniform.
While we were driving I chose to wear HBT coverals, which with some of the dramas I had with the Blitz was just as well.

Once at the event where we did do re enactment I wore Australian Desert uniform as the theme we were doing was the Battle at Bravos Pass in Greece.

I believe that in the right circumstances that Uniform can be worn but it still comes down to the indivdual, it is your vehicle do what you want. Having said that I really try to ensure that any uniform that I wear is historical correct as possible.

Tim

Jordan Baker · #29 14-12-09, 07:32

Hi Jon and all

When ive taken my Jeep to living history events I have usually worn my set of BD for the drive there, and for the duration of the event im in uniform. Im badged correctly for the RHLI during WW2. Last summer I went to a number of cruise nights around town. I just wore civies as i didn't feel that it was a proper venue for wearing a uniform. The first time I showed up at the local cruise night the guy at the gate searced my Jeep and asked if I had any weapons. Told me they had a guy in the past bring all sorts of machine guns and caused them some problems.

I feel that if going to, say and airshow where there will be other MV's in attendance you should make some effort to be in uniform or in coveralls that look period correct. I personaly hate seeing a whole bunch of MV's lined up with their owners standing around in t shirts and shorts, If you can afford to restore an MV then you can afford to buy a uniform or coveralls to look the part with the veh.

Jon, I think its great that you want to put on the uniform that goes with the Jeep, go for it.

Adame · #30 14-12-09, 18:38

Hey Jordan

Alls well and said if your young guy that can fit in a WW2 uniform, But if your a FAT old guy it shouldn't exclude you from bringing out your restored vehicles that your proud of either.

And theres nothing more sloppy or in appropriate than an over weight guy trying to wear a ww2 uniform

Cheers
Adame