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  #1  
Old 18-08-19, 15:01
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Robin Craig Robin Craig is offline
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Default Quebec Transport Ministry + MV owners

Can anyone, perhaps Stuart Fedak, explain to us what is going on in Quebec with vehicle owners and a move to remove the vehicle registrations and take them off the road permanently?

I find this very disturbing.

Opening the floor for discussion.
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  #2  
Old 18-08-19, 20:21
Harry Moon Harry Moon is offline
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Default Rumours about it in BC as well.

a member had trouble the last 2 years getting a Ferret from Ontario registered.
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  #3  
Old 19-08-19, 03:47
Terry Witiuk Terry Witiuk is offline
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Default SAAQ to reclassify military vehicles as Class C (Historic)

Stuart. Are you able to post a link to the SAAQ website where we can read details about the changes? A fellow in Quebec has sent an email to me where he states "owners must immediately change the registration of their vehicle to a class C, which involves, amongst other things, major restrictions on road usage privileges. Restrictions such as being limited to roads of 70 km/h or less; have a government safety vehicle inspection done; and not be equipped with a turret or other weapon anchor system."

This should be of concern to all MV owners in Canada...not just Quebec.
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  #4  
Old 19-08-19, 05:21
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Robin Craig Robin Craig is offline
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This whole subject just makes my blood boil frankly.

I feel our veterans who gave their lives on beaches and battlefields around the world would turn in their graves to hear of such goings on after they laid down their lives in the name of freedom.

I foresee some very ugly sound bites in the future. These are dark days.
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Canadair CL70 CFR 58-91588
Armstrong MT500 serial CFR 86-78530
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Trailer Cargo 3/4 T 2WHD 38 GJ 62
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  #5  
Old 19-08-19, 05:46
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Are your road laws National?

For example, if an Iltis licenced in Ontario travels to Quebec, would it be permitted on roads over 70Km/h? And would a Quebec Iltis be limited to by-roads elsewhere in the country while locals have no restrictions?
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Old 19-08-19, 05:49
David Dunlop David Dunlop is offline
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I wonder what they are going to do when they stumble across their first ex military commercial 5/4-ton or CJ7?

David
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  #7  
Old 19-08-19, 05:59
rob love rob love is offline
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Vehicles like the 5/4 ton and the CJ7 both had the Transport Canada CMVSS maple leaf stickers on the door pillers. Those were fine for road use. Besides, how would the SAAQ even know the vehicles are ex-military, since both those vehicles have direct civilian equivalents.



I can't remember if the LSVW also had a similar decal on them. If so, then I would suggest that would be the basis of keeping those on the road (for as long as an LSVW will stay on the road that is).
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Old 19-08-19, 06:28
David Dunlop David Dunlop is offline
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Tony.

Each Province at one time had its own ‘Department of Highways’. They not only designed, built and maintained the highways/roads within each Province, but they were also at the core of creating and enforcing regulations regarding what equipment was deemed safe/necessary on the various motor vehicles under its jurisdiction, what actions were deemed appropriate for the safe operation of various vehicles (Rules of the Road, enforced by various police agencies) and Driver Training/Testing. Most all of this would fall under a Provincial Highway Traffic Act.

Outside of that sphere of influence, you found the insurance companies that insured the motor vehicles that the Department of Highways deemed appropriate to be on the road.

Here in Manitoba, all that started to slowly change in the early 1970’s. Prior to that, private insurance companies were the only means of obtaining vehicle insurance. Premiums varied greatly and if you were prone to accidents, your premiums could go up rapidly. In addition, claims for accidents could take a while to settle sometimes because the insurance companies for both parties would have to study the accident to determine who was at fault, based on the rules of the road established by the Department of Highways. Whoever was at fault had to cover all repairs and their premiums would go up accordingly.

In the early 1970’s, a newly elected government in Manitoba decided to ban all private auto insurance and replace it with a brand new government owned public insurance company called MPIC (Manitoba Public Insurance Corporation). This new company was mandated to offer rock bottom premiums and to introduce ‘No Fault Insurance’. This latter move was a disaster that is still with us. It did not take long for people to realize there were no longer any real consequences for being an idiot on the road and getting into an accident. You could get your car fixed right away and get right back out there.

In the last 10 years or so, the provincial government, in an effort to save money, have now transferred Driver Training and Licencing to MPIC and MPIC is slowly pushing for more and more say in the regulations of what equipment should be in/on vehicles in the Province in order for them to be insured. It has become a very dangerous monopoly. What is happening in Quebec right now could very easily pop up here at any time.

David
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  #9  
Old 19-08-19, 14:47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuart Fedak View Post
The SAAQ which is the government Motor Vehicle Insurance program for Quebec has new direction of the Minister to change the motor vehicle regulations.

At the start of August, military vehicle owners started receiving letters from SAAQ. The rational in the letters did not make any sense. Basically the SAAQ claimed that the manufactures of military vehicles were contacted, and the manufacturers stated that the vehicles were for off road only. This is not correct.

There was no public consultation on this process, which was signed off by the Minister in charge of SAAQ.

They were contacted by my good friend Bernard, and the Bombardier Museum, as the archive for all the Canadian Bombardier Records, indicated they had not been contacted by SAAQ.

I have been trying to figure out what the end game is, of the SAAQ and the minister. I will hold onto my thoughts until I have more data.
You could apply to the Minister, François Bonnardel, and to the SAAQ with an Act respecting access request for copies of any correspondence with the manufacturers that relates to their suitability for on-road use, if it exists. https://www.educaloi.qc.ca/en/capsul...-public-bodies

But to be fair, reading the list of vehicles affected, this is not solely aimed at Military Vehicles: https://saaq.gouv.qc.ca/en/vehicle-r...cted-area-use/ It also applies to ANY vehicle manufactured more than 25 years ago! Cars, buses, trucks, the lot, with the exception of motorcycles. I wonder if letters have gone out to owners of those vehicles too?
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  #10  
Old 19-08-19, 15:55
David Dunlop David Dunlop is offline
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Hello again, Tony.

Stuart has clarified the autonomous status of the Provincial Control of highways and motor vehicles quite well. I would just add that, for the sake of smooth traffic flow across the nation as a whole, enforcement of local regulations on out of province vehicles is normally very limited.

Just as an example. Currently here in Manitoba, a front licence plate is mandatory on all motor vehicles. Next door in Saskatchewan, a front plate is not required. That non compliance for visitors is ignored in Manitoba. If, however, somebody moves from Saskatchewan to Manitoba, they are allowed a fixed period of time in which they can still operate their vehicle under Saskatchewan registration. After that, they must submit the vehicle to inspection to meet Manitoba standards for registration.

Off the top of my head, I can only think of military half track vehicles that cannot be licensed for the road here in Manitoba (not withstanding heavy armour) by civilians. The legislation governing this is nearly 100 years old and relates specifically to old farm machinery that used to have heavy lugs on steel wheels or tracks that would chew up the early roads. It makes no sense at all being applied to modern, rubber half track tracks, but that is the piece of legislation that is hauled out and waved in your face if you attempt to put a half track on the road today in Manitoba.

David
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  #11  
Old 19-08-19, 19:45
Terry Witiuk Terry Witiuk is offline
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Default SAAQ to reclassify military vehicles as Class C (Historic)

I've read the info on the SAAQ website about vehicles that require C licence plates and it says that any vehicle 30 years or older is required to have these plates whether preserved or conserved. This would include classic cars as well. Has this always been the case and mandatory in Quebec or is this whole C licence plate a new thing? If this isn't new, does anyone know how long it's been in place? Also, if not new, was there any efforts to stop this when first introduced. Aside from the LSVWs that are being sold off by the CF and possibly some newer Humvees that have made their way into Canada, I would think that most of the military vehicles owned by MV enthusiasts in Quebec have passed the 30 year mark and fell into this category years ago. The stipulation of not being allowed to have a turret or weapon mount is possibly more concerning. This would take some vehicles off the road entirely. I wonder what is SAAQ's official definition of a turret or weapon mount?
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Last edited by Terry Witiuk; 19-08-19 at 20:22.
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  #12  
Old 20-08-19, 00:26
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M38CDNBill M38CDNBill is offline
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Hi,

Although this ministerial order only affects recent military vehicles (Bombardier Iltis until the recent Humvees through the VSLR and other larger vehicles), Willys jeeps and other vehicles of the WWII, Korean and Vietnam wars are not affected by this ministerial order. However, we are following this issue closely because we believe that it's only a matter of time for them to be affected as well.

I agree with you, this ministerial order is an aberration all the more since we hear through the branches that this order of the SAAQ will be followed by another one which says that in 2024, all the antique military vehicles will have to to be removed from circulation. What is true in all this? I don't know but one thing is certain, it will certainly have impacts in the rest of Canada in +/- short time.

As for the C-plate, the idea is not incongruous in itself. Willys/Ford jeeps (MB, GPW, M38CDN, M38A1s), Dodge 3/4 tons, CMPs, GMC M135 and MUTT M151A1/A2 don't cruise at an average speed over 70 km/hr. Where this order is a nonsense, it's that there are no roads at 70 km/hr anywhere in Quebec so sometimes we have to take shortly a road at 90 km/hr to go from one place to another. As for highways, it's very dangerous to take them anyway.

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