canadian wildfire may 2016

[Ryan]

It's on our news over here in Australia. Looks massive.
Stay safe guys and girls.

[chris vickery]

Ryan, apparently it is and has been burning for a few days.
I have worked in the area and have some familiarity with the town.
The town is cut out of the bush, surrounded. As I understand it, the fire was sparked close to town outside the city. There is a ravine which makes its way into the center of town, a pathway essentially for the fire to take.
Last night I read there were over 1600 structures destroyed, likely a whole lot more by today as winds were supposed to increase and hamper efforts.

[maple_leaf_eh]

http://wildfire.alberta.ca/

The western provinces are all very dry. High hazard conditions carried into the winter with low snowfall accumulations. This is May, and the fire season typically runs throughout the summer.

The city of Fort McMurray has been ordered evacuated. About 17,000 people moved north into oil sands constructions camps which were empty due to annual shutdowns. The other 40,000 went south towards ANZAC (!) and other communities, some of which have now been include in evacuation orders, or flew out. The industrial corporate citizens have removed all nonessential personnel to get them the heck out of the way of residents.

[cletrac (RIP)]

I'm about 400 miles south east of the fire and visibility was under 2 miles today and the smoke smell was strong.
They make a big deal out of everybody getting out OK but in that city everybody has a safety meeting every morning. It's part of their life.

[Little Jo]

Hi All

Living in the Adelaide Hills and having survived two major bush fires. My thoughts are with all you guys in Alberta during these trying times. From what we have seen on our local TV and Newspapers it is hard to comprehend the magnitude of such a fire. Saving lives must be the priority, material things can be rebuilt. I know that the Canadian people will be ready help those in need.

Stay strong and positive.

Tony

[Harry Moon]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQZxcSRGqlo
Fire moves fast!

[Ryan]

Originally Posted by Harry Moon

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQZxcSRGqlo
Fire moves fast!

What's with those buggers not giving way to the fire truck? Idiots.

[rob love]

I think it was because they were so close to the trees that were turning into Roman Candles. The heat had to be incredible. In their case, they were at risk of perishing from the heat in standstill traffic. If that is the case, nobody can blame them.

You can see the ash falling onto the hood of the car with the dashcamera. He also pulled out of his lane because of the heat.

If you watch this video you will see what was going on behind that vehicle and why those cars (and the motorcyclist) did not worry about blocking the fire truck. They were in trouble. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCc1FvZ3g0Q

You can also watch the small fire in the shrubbery at the house on the corner erupt into something much bigger.

[chris vickery]

Folks, remember, in Fort Mac there is essentially one way in and out.
The highway is a nuthouse at the best of times...
God help the residents of Ft MacMurray.

[Tony Smith]

Originally Posted by rob love

If you watch this video you will see what was going on behind that vehicle and why those cars (and the motorcyclist) did not worry about blocking the fire truck. They were in trouble. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCc1FvZ3g0Q

You can also watch the small fire in the shrubbery at the house on the corner erupt into something much bigger.

From 2:19 to 2:49 it goes from a small spot fire from drifting embers to something capable of engulfing the house! 30 sec!!

Originally Posted by Chris Vickery

Folks, remember, in Fort Mac there is essentially one way in and out.
The highway is a nuthouse at the best of times...

I've got to congratulate many of those drivers for their traffic manners in that situation. I would have completely understood the motorcyclist scooting past the whole line of traffic, or at the very least shielding himself from radiant heat on the driver's side of the pickup. Instead he patiently waits his turn in a line of traffic. Other drivers too patiently wait in a an orderly line. In the right hand lane of the road closest to the road when their is no two way traffic except for Emergency Services! This says volumes about the inherent courtesy of Canadian drivers compared to Australians.

.

[Harry Moon]

https://www.facebook.com/CTVEdmonton...6124731755914/
You can recognize the area from the previous video in relation to the blue SHAW trucks.
Basically the trucks heading straight at the fire trucks were running out of the burning building.
Its not like the movies, people remain calm, unless they are on fire, then they scream and panic, but regularly people act calmly and help each other out.
I hope peoples fascination with Urban forests takes a beating, this could happen to any city with a large tree canopy. And yes that is my neighbourhood!

[rob love]

Here as well Harry. We have a 90 year old forest nearby which is primarily Jack Pine planted in the 1920s and perhaps some in the 1940s. At this point many of the trees are starting to go over, and combined with a floor of pine needles and firebreaks that are no longer maintained and now grown over, it is not a matter of "might" but "when".

There are a good number of houses just across the road from the forest, including a lot of the new builds. Natural resources has now allowed cutting of fuelwood for the first 100 yards into that forest to make some level of fireguard, but as can be seen in the video, the safety of 100 yards may be an illusion.

[maple_leaf_eh]

Hmmm? Ninety year old Jack Pines - there's a city of log houses standing on the stump.

In case people are wondering why the military has not been mobilized, the hierarchy of mutual aid is city or rural municipality first, then the region, the province itself, and any neighbouring provinces who might be able to help.

The last line of defence is the federal govt after the lower levels have exhausted their resources. The provincial Attorney General has to make an official request to his opposite in federal government before any soldier can turn a wheel to help out. Even so, the meter starts running whenever a province asks. And troops don't come for free.

[cletrac (RIP)]

This is quite the picture!

[Peter Duggan]

Guys,

Here are some of the folks that are on the front line of what will turn out to be the largest natural disaster in Canadian history.

The people of Ft McMurray are in the middle of horrible battle with mother nature. Hopefully the physical fight will be soon over. The subsequent trauma and psychological struggle will be just as challenging. The rebuilding process will take years.

The only positive aspect to this disaster is the overwhelming positive support from the rest of the country. Keep it up, they deserve it.

Peter

[maple_leaf_eh]

http://esrica-psvt.maps.arcgis.com/a...3aa7681067db4d

My old supervisor works for ESRI and he posted this link on Facebook. The various feeds show all sorts of information, and the Fort Mc' fire is one of them. Open and close the layers to see more information.

[motto]

There is a surreal feeling about the videos that is hard to describe. No sense of urgency, no water bombers, no talk of containment lines or assets committed. Even the fire seemed to be taking it easy. The wind wasn't blowing a gale and most of the houses look to be quite defensible, simply a matter of putting out spot fires and watching out for ember attack.
I understand that there was a compulsory evacuation ordered but wonder at the necessity of that if some preparation had been carried out. It was like as though the fire was completely unforeseen and no preparations made.
We live in a fire prone area and have water tanks, fire pump and generator with the idea in mind of staying and fighting and what I saw at Fort Mc seemed quite strange.
I see that there has been some lively debate over the non use of water bombers in the Canadian parliament with mention of the Martin Mars and C-130 aircraft. They alone probably would have decided the issue, easily so in the days prior to the town being ravaged.
There must be more to the story.

David

[rob love]

Don't take your news from a squirrel, they have a pretty small area of responsibility.

Much like the starving Ethiopian kid that you would constantly see photos of the same kid, when the media made it sound like there were millions more just like him, the media will center on the worst. Seems like I have seen the same burned out truck in front of the same burned out neighborhood a number of times. But I don't doubt for a second that this was the right choice.

Evacuate or don't evacuate? I haven't heard of anyone losing their lives at this point, so the evacuate choice seemed to be the right choice. Some neighborhoods did burn, the escape routes were hit and miss, and 90,000 people command a lot of resources so with no source of re-supply, a contaminated water system, a compromised power grid, at least there are about 85,000 less mouths to worry about.

I worked the BC forest fire of 2003, and fire is an unpredictable, goofy thing. We worked a certain area of responsibility, and everything would seem good, we would be proactively working our area to contain any spots that we could find, then suddenly a tree would roman candle out of nowhere. Now you were no longer proactive, but reactive. Or in army speak, we had lost the initiative.

Between weather, wind, and just plain bad luck, fighting these things is tough, and often you are trying to contain the damage until mother nature can take over. Even then, it gets underground into the root system, and just waits to come up again at any time.

[jack neville]

Originally Posted by motto

There is a surreal feeling about the videos that is hard to describe. No sense of urgency, no water bombers, no talk of containment lines or assets committed. Even the fire seemed to be taking it easy. The wind wasn't blowing a gale and most of the houses look to be quite defensible, simply a matter of putting out spot fires and watching out for ember attack.
I understand that there was a compulsory evacuation ordered but wonder at the necessity of that if some preparation had been carried out. It was like as though the fire was completely unforeseen and no preparations made.
We live in a fire prone area and have water tanks, fire pump and generator with the idea in mind of staying and fighting and what I saw at Fort Mc seemed quite strange.
I see that there has been some lively debate over the non use of water bombers in the Canadian parliament with mention of the Martin Mars and C-130 aircraft. They alone probably would have decided the issue, easily so in the days prior to the town being ravaged.
There must be more to the story.

David

Maybe it's the difference between Australian bush and the rest of the fire prone world Dave but I know what you mean.

[cletrac (RIP)]

Fort Mac has the one road that comes in from the south and goes out the north. Once they're cut you're on your own!

[Tony Wheeler]

Originally Posted by motto

It was like as though the fire was completely unforeseen and no preparations made. We live in a fire prone area and have water tanks, fire pump and generator with the idea in mind of staying and fighting and what I saw at Fort Mc seemed quite strange.

David, I think we're seeing what happens under forced evacuation policy. If you live under that regime, whether it be in Canada or Australia, there's no point preparing for bushfires. This point was eloquently made by former AFP Commissioner Mick Keelty in the 2011 report into Perth Hills bushfires, where residents were evacuated and no lives were lost, but many homes were. The final report said:

The Special Inquiry does not dispute the priority given to protecting life, however, it is concerned that the process of widespread evacuation may be at odds with the focus on educating people about risks and empowering individuals and communities to exercise choice and take responsibility, as set out in the National Strategy for Disaster Resilience. The Strategy has an explicit focus on building disaster resilient communities, noting that in these communities:

People understand the risks that may affect them and others in the community. They understand the risks assessed around Australia, particularly those in their local area. They have comprehensive local information about hazards and risks, including who is exposed and who is most vulnerable. They take action to prepare for disasters and are adaptive and flexible to respond appropriately during emergencies.

The National Strategy for Disaster Resilience further defines a disaster resilient community as one where people have taken steps to anticipate disasters and to protect themselves.

The Special Inquiry spoke with residents who questioned the rationale for preparing their own bushfire plan setting out what they will do during a fire event if it is likely they will be evacuated anyway. The Special Inquiry was concerned that the widespread use of evacuation as a strategy to protect life has the potential to disempower communities, rather than building resilience. Residents could choose not to engage in community level preparations, not consider what action they would take during a bushfire, or not take adequate steps to protect their properties, if they believe the default response to an emergency is to evacuate. (Mick Keelty, ‘A Shared Responsibility: The Report of the Perth Hills Bushfire February 2011 Review’ p 42).

[maple_leaf_eh]

http://www.macleans.ca/tag/fort-mcmurray-faq/

The boreal forest in Canada is a very big swath of vegetation. It burns every year, sometimes more destructively than others. The Mountain Pine Beetle is killing the pine forests, which greatly adds to the fuel mass available. The logging companies can only cut so many marketable logs per season.

There are whole communities and subcultures that depend on fighting wildfires. There are also individuals whose summer income depends on getting hired on to fire crews. It is not unknown for the same people to start a bush fire and be hired to fight it or others. All this is to say that yes, Ft Mc's "The Beast Fire" as it has been named, has been assessed as human originated. However there is no announced plan to hunt down and prosecute the one poor bugger whose ATV exhaust sparked a fire. It isn't the first and it won't be the last human caused fire. Nor, is there any way to investigate in sufficient detail the cause of the fire so it would stand up in court. Unless someone walks into the police station and convincingly admits to starting this particular fire, we may never know exactly how it started.

As to a perceived lack of urgency, Canadians are almost painfully civil to each other. We apologize for wrongs (and rights). We tend to respond to official direction without being confrontational. So, when the fire chief, who in emergencies has more authority than a mayor or the police chief, orders people to leave it happens. The kindness of strangers is not an abstract concept but how people treat each other unprompted. (Ever ask why this forum is so generous and helpful ....?)

There may be discussions on why some parts of town were evacuated later than others, or when the orders were issued. Or, whether the fire was fought intensively enough such as whether a particular type of air tanker should or should not have been contracted. Such conversations based on speculation won't advance the issue, nor should the uninformed be allowed to steer the debate. Most politicians have learned to stay out from underfoot, and let the professionals deal with the problem. Their managers and political ministers are responsible for answering those questions.

[motto]

Thanks Tony, I was unaware of the Mick Keelty report, it sums things up well.
Terry, I stated at the end of my post that there must be more to the story and indeed there is as you have explained.
You mention the forest being burned each year. The discussion here has been very intense at times on the issue of fuel reduction burns. In many areas for thousands of years before the arrival of the Europeans the aboriginals would light bush fires as they moved out in their nomadic lifestyle. This was part of the natural order of things. eucalyptus forests are fire prone so much so that some species will germinate after burning. With the coming of the white man the focus has been on fire prevention with the consequent build up of fuel resulting in high intensity fires when light up does occur.
We still haven't learned how to manage the situation with fuel reduction burns sometimes getting out of control and the population ever increasing and many wishing to 'escape to the country'.
Our fires seem to be more like those they have in California with fierce winds hurling debris and fireballs at terrific speed over great distances. The Fort Mc fire seemed rather sedate. It probably has something to do with latitude as well as the makeup of the forest.
No criticism of Canadians is intended or implied. I wish we had more of your politeness here as we seem to be on a downwards spiral. Maybe I am that old as I can remember a kinder world where people were considerate of each other and guns in the hands of the public not seen as a threat.
David