Hood number

[M38CDNBill]

Hello All,

Here is a website where you see a group of re-enactors in Normandy whose members claim to be truer than true. I met him few times and their president has a "Canadian" Willys MB on which the number that appears on the side of the hood is CM4402587. In 2009, I asked him if there was not a small error using CM44 and he replied with a vindictive military tone "Oh no sir, it's CM44 and it's documented". You'll see some pictures of this group and the markings in question by clicking the following link:

http://chemindeserables.pagesperso-o...tChaudiere.htm

What are your opinions on this hood number because I always beleive that the Canadian hood numbers for the jeeps began by CM42 and sometime by CM55 at the end of the war?

[Mark W. Tonner]

Originally Posted by M38CDNBill

Hello All,

Here is a website where you see a group of re-enactors in Normandy whose members claim to be truer than true. I met him few times and their president has a "Canadian" Willys MB on which the number that appears on the side of the hood is CM4402587. In 2009, I asked him if there was not a small error using CM44 and he replied with a vindictive military tone "Oh no sir, it's CM44 and it's documented".

What are your opinions on this hood number because I always beleive that the Canadian hood numbers for the jeeps began by CM42 and sometime by CM55 at the end of the war?

Guy;

My 2¢ worth, I have the census numbers (or WD numbers) as being from the block CM 4230597 to CM 4233122 for Canadian jeeps (Car, 5-cwt, 4x4).

Cheers

[Eric B]

Hello Folks

I have been collecting WW2 CDN Jeep data for a number of years and have been to the CDN archives numerous times.

Jeep WD numbers generally start off in the CM116 range and then go all the way up to CM82.

We received blocks of WD from the British numbers and were given more as needed. At one point they stopped using the 116 numbers and moved up to a higher number, so even though we were assigned certain blocks, not all of these would have been used up. Jeeps were also included with other Car 5cwt's, which were predominently staff cars.

We also traded vehicles with the British. Pertaining to a memo, those that were transfered ownership would have had the C removed if traded to the British or the C added if it came to Canadian ownership. If it was on loan then the C would remain or not be added.

I also have some WD numbers that do not meet the standard seven numbers system.

So the answer to your question is that yes this number could be athentic. I do have one in the same range on file (CM4421919).

I am always looking for new infomeration and will follow up on this so that i can add this WD number to my file.


thanks
Eric

[Ed Storey]

You should have asked about the two 3/4 ton US 'Beep' Weapons Carriers, how documented are they!? Of course then there is the question about lettering styles used on Canadian vehicles, the use tyre pressure markings and the painting styles of vehicle formation signs...all good nit picky stuff.

[Mark W. Tonner]

Thanks Eric, it’s always good to learn something new, census numbers and I have been limited to Kangaroos and Churchill tanks for sometime now, the nature of the beast I guess.

Cheers

[Mark W. Tonner]

Some photos from Library and Archives Canada showing a range of census numbers used on Canadian jeeps:

(left to right)

Photo 1 (CM 4230213) - Troopers of the Three Rivers Regiment in a jeep, England, 22 July 1942.
Credit: Lieut. C.E. Nye/Department of National Defence/Library and Archives Canada/PA-213504

Photo 2 (CM 116 . . .?) - A jeep ambulance of the Royal Canadian Army Medical Corps (R.C.A.M.C.) bringing in two wounded Canadian soldiers on the Moro River front south of San Leonardo di Ortona, Italy, 10 December 1943
Credit: Lieut. Frederick G. Whitcombe/Department of National Defence/Library and Archives Canada/PA-180097

Photo 3 (CM 4233488) - An ambulance jeep of the Royal Canadian Army Medical Corps (R.C.A.M.C.), Vaucelles, France, 20 July 1944
Credit: Lieut. Ken Bell/Department of National Defence/Library and Archives Canada/PA-129031

Photo 4 (M 5826948) - Two unidentified corporals of the 2nd Provost Company, Canadian Provost Corps (C.P.C.), exchanging notes on the hood of their jeep in the Reichswald, Germany, 20 March 1945.
Credit: Lieut. Ken Bell/Department of National Defence/Library and Archives Canada/PA-140123

Photo 5 (CM 4232803) - Personnel of the British Columbia Regiment with a jeep, near Brasschaet, Belgium, 14 October 1944.
Credit: Lieut. Michael M. Dean/Department of National Defence/Library and Archives Canada/PA-151371

Cheers

[Eric B]

Hello folks

Yes Ed is correct in wondering about the US Dodge's in CDN markings. There has been previous posts on that issue. I beleive most concluded that we never used them. I can't remember if they were part of the US lend-lease to Britain, in which case there is a possibility. Not a good vehicle to steal as it would not be easy to disguise as CDN.

There was even a post on CDN APT's which was debated if they were ever used in Europe during the war.

Ed... did i see 2nd Div vehicle markings and a 3 Div shoulder patch?

I am checking with the owner of the jeep to determine where he obtained the data, more for me to be able to add another CDN Jeep WD number to my list.

As for the markings. There is such a wide range. Orders might specify one thing and then photos show you something completely different.

I.e.The WD numbers were to be painted in so not to reflect a stencil, but photos show both, and in different styles of stenciling as well. Nicknames were not to be added, but again you can see some photos proving that wrong and the list goes on and on and on and on. etc.

Of course all of this makes the hobby very interesting.

At least the vehicles, equipment, uniforms and markings all reflect the right era.

Regardless of errors its nice to see a CDN unit being honoured in such a way.

If anybody picks anything else up i will advise them in a diplomatic way.

Eric

[M38CDNBill]

Hello All,

Additional picture of a Canadian jeep with the hood number CM5584352



Cheers

[Ed Storey]

Looks like tyre pressure markings on the vehicle as well as all of the other usual markings. Does anyone know the supply chian of how Jeeps would get to the Canadian Army in the field?

[Mark W. Tonner]

Originally Posted by Ed Storey

Does anyone know the supply chian of how Jeeps would get to the Canadian Army in the field?

Hi Ed;

In its simplest terms - for a unit in an armoured or infantry division - at the Corps level - No. 3 Section of the Corps Ordnance Field Park, RCOC held ‘wheeled’ transport - from which the jeep would be sent forward to the Divisional Ordnance Field Park, RCOC (later Divisional Sub-Park, RCOC) from where it would either be picked up directly by a driver from the requesting unit or it would be sent forward to a DP where it would be picked up by a driver from the requesting unit.

The paper trail or the request for a jeep on the other hand went the other way - from the requesting unit to the ADOS at Div HQ - on to the DDOS at Corps HQ from where it would go to the Corps Ordnance Field Park, RCOC who would pass it to No. 3 Section to deal with the issue downwards to the unit as explained above.

Now back to . . . . . .

Cheers

[servicepub (RIP)]

My copy of the census numbers allotted by the War Office to the Canadian Army (Overseas) shows the following WD numbers for cars;
CM 4202001 to 4203000 (cars)
CM 4218701 to 4219200 (cars)
CM 4230201 to 4234200 (cars)
CM 4647001 to 4647640 (recce cars)

The following ranges apply to cars in the RCASC series (which is annotated as not being continued)
CM 195000 to 195599 (cars)
CM 1164421 to 1164620 (cars)
CM 1165320 to 1166136 (cars)

According to this list the number posted at the beginning of the thread (CM4402587) would not be realistic. The number posted by Eric (CM4421919) would also be outside the range but may have been a borrowed/rented Jeep from the Brits to which the "C" prefix was incorrectly added. The list of numbers supplied by Mark are all correct - taking into account the Mxxxx vehicle which may be a Brit jeep in Canadian service. The great photo supplied by Bill (CM5584352) again shows a jeep outside of the range but the date of the photo (and of Mark's "M" jeep) both ante-date my list. In reviewing almost 300 jeep photos in my files I found several in the CM424xxxxx range which are definitly Canadian, including one with General Crerar at the wheel.

Clive

[Jordan Baker]

Anyone ever come across and jeep #'s for the RHLI. One of the batt vets had a jeep. He remembers only the last 3 #'s as thats all he ever used for the vehicle. His Jeep ended with "008" and they also had "007" We just can't figure out the previous numbers.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Interesting thread! See the thread Canadian contract jeeps (was: CDLV 505 Jeep Serial numbers...) for more pictures and registration numbers.

Hanno