The Shipping News

Tony Smith · #1 23-05-05, 10:13

Recently in a discussion with immigrants to Australia in the 60's, they mentioned that they came out from Britain in the New Australia. This ship had been rebuilt as a Shaw -Saville ship in 1949 from the fire damaged Empress of Bermuda. The Empress of Bermuda had been built in 1931 and was used as a British troopship during WW2, including carrying invasion forces to Norway. I recalled that other "Empresses" were used to carry the First Echelon NZEF and AIF troops to Egypt on Jan 1940. A 13 troopship convoy consisted of the Empress of Canada, Empress of Japan and the Empress of Britain, as well as the P&O ships Orcades, Otranto, Orion, and Orford and the ships Aquitania, Dunera, Strathaird, Strathnaver, Sobieski and Rangitata. The Convoy was protected by the Cruisers HMS Leander, HMS Ramilles, HMAS Australia, HMAS Canberra and HMAS Sydney.

Were the "Empress" ships all Shaw-Saville liners or was this only the case after the Bermuda was rebuilt in 1949? What other Empresses were there and what other troop convoys did they take part in?

Alex Blair (RIP) · #2 23-05-05, 14:46

Quote:

Originally posted by Tony Smith
Recently in a discussion with immigrants to Australia in the 60's, they mentioned that they came out from Britain in the New Australia. This ship had been rebuilt as a Shaw -Saville ship in 1949 from the fire damaged Empress of Bermuda. The Empress of Bermuda had been built in 1931 and was used as a British troopship during WW2, including carrying invasion forces to Norway. I recalled that other "Empresses" were used to carry the First Echelon NZEF and AIF troops to Egypt on Jan 1940. A 13 troopship convoy consisted of the Empress of Canada, Empress of Japan and the Empress of Britain, as well as the P&O ships Orcades, Otranto, Orion, and Orford and the ships Aquitania, Dunera, Strathaird, Strathnaver, Sobieski and Rangitata. The Convoy was protected by the Cruisers HMS Leander, HMS Ramilles, HMAS Australia, HMAS Canberra and HMAS Sydney.

Were the "Empress" ships all Shaw-Saville liners or was this only the case after the Bermuda was rebuilt in 1949? What other Empresses were there and what other troop convoys did they take part in?

Tony
The Empress of Ireland was sunk in a collision in the St Lawerence River in Canada..Here are some other Empresses..
And other great ocean liners...

http://www.greatoceanliners.net/index2.html

#3 23-05-05, 21:24

Quote:

"The Shipping News", originally posted by Tony Smith

THE SHIPPING FORECAST ISSUED BY THE MET OFFICE, ON BEHALF OF THE MARITIME AND COASTGUARD AGENCY, AT 1725 ON MONDAY 23 MAY 2005

THERE ARE WARNINGS OF GALES IN PLYMOUTH FITZROY SOLE LUNDY FASTNET IRISH SEA AND SHANNON

THE GENERAL SYNOPSIS AT 1300
LOW NORTHERN IRELAND 999 MOVING SLOWLY EAST AND LOSING ITS IDENTITY.
LOW CROMARTY 1002 EXPECTED NORTHEAST FAEROES 1004 BY 1300 TOMORROW.
LOW 300 MILES WEST OF SOLE 988 EXPECTED SOUTHWEST SCOTLAND 1004 BY SAME TIME

THE AREA FORECASTS FOR THE NEXT 24 HOURS

VIKING NORTH UTSIRE SOUTH UTSIRE
SOUTH OR SOUTHEAST 4 OR 5, INCREASING 6 FOR A TIME. RAIN AT TIMES. MODERATE OR GOOD

FORTIES CROMARTY FORTH
SOUTH 4 OR 5, OCCASIONALLY 6 IN FORTIES AND FORTH, BECOMING CYCLONIC LATER. RAIN AT TIMES. MODERATE OR GOOD

TYNE DOGGER FISHER GERMAN BIGHT HUMBER THAMES DOVER WIGHT PORTLAND
SOUTH OR SOUTHWEST 5 TO 7, OCCASIONALLY 4 AT FIRST IN FISHER AND GERMAN BIGHT. RAIN AT TIMES. MODERATE OR GOOD, OCCASIONALLY POOR LATER IN PORTLAND

PLYMOUTH
SOUTH OR SOUTHWEST 5 TO 7, INCREASING GALE 8 FOR A TIME. RAIN AT TIMES. MODERATE OR GOOD, OCCASIONALLY POOR LATER

NORTH BISCAY
SOUTHWEST 4 OR 5, INCREASING 6 OR 7 FOR A TIME. OCCASIONAL RAIN. MODERATE OR GOOD

SOUTH BISCAY SOUTHEAST FITZROY
VARIABLE 3 OR 4. FAIR. MAINLY GOOD

NORTHWEST FITZROY SOLE LUNDY FASTNET IRISH SEA
SOUTHWEST 5 TO 7, OCCASIONALLY GALE 8 AT FIRST. RAIN OR SHOWERS. MODERATE OR GOOD

SHANNON
CYCLONIC 5 TO 7, OCCASIONALLY GALE 8 AT FIRST. RAIN AT TIMES. MODERATE OR GOOD

ROCKALL MALIN
NORTHEAST 4 OR 5, BUT VARIABLE 3 OR 4 AT FIRST IN SOUTH. SHOWERS. MODERATE OR GOOD

HEBRIDES BAILEY
NORTH OR NORTHWEST 4 OR 5, OCCASIONALLY 6 AT FIRST IN BAILEY. SHOWERS. MAINLY GOOD

FAIR ISLE EAST FAEROES
CYCLONIC BECOMING WEST 4 OR 5. RAIN AT TIMES. MODERATE OR GOOD, OCCASIONALLY POOR AT FIRST

WEST FAEROES
NORTH 5 OR 6. RAIN OR SHOWERS. MODERATE OR GOOD

SOUTHEAST ICELAND
NORTH 5 TO 7, BUT 3 OR 4 IN WEST. SHOWERS. MODERATE OR GOOD

R.

Tony Smith · #4 24-05-05, 00:02

Quote:

Originally posted by Alex Blair
Tony
The Empress of Ireland was sunk in a collision in the St Lawerence River in Canada..Here are some other Empresses..
And other great ocean liners...

http://www.greatoceanliners.net/index2.html

Well, well. I could'nt find all of the troopships on that site, Alex, but the Empresses of Canada, Britain, Ireland, Scotland, Australia and Japan were all owned by the Canadian Pacific Railway Co. Interestingly, the Empress of Australia wasn't a Canadian built ship, but was war reparations from the German Hamburg-Amerika line.
Curiously, the "Commonwealth" Empresses were all regal titles of Queen Victoria, but how did Empress of Japan slip in there?
And yet another question, wasn't the correct company name for that rail company the Canadian Pacific RAILROAD, or is that a later version?

Jon Skagfeld · #5 25-05-05, 04:09

As a sidebar to the above posts, were you aware that all Cunard liners' names ended in -ia (Lusitania, Maurentia, Aquitania, etc) whilst all White Star liners' names ended in -ic (Titanic, Olympic, etc).

As a further sidebar, I arrived in Canada aboard Aquitania (ship's name mentioned above) 7 Feb 1947 at Pier 21, Halifax, from Southampton. It was an austerity trip, the ship was still rigged out for troopship conveyance.

Third class immigration passage...four sittings per meal...sometimes interrupted by lifeboat drills. Not much fun for a little kid! Trip took 6 days.

Keith Brooker · #6 27-07-12, 17:09

Photo of Empress of Bermuda as a troopship in 1946 Suez canal. Original photo from my collection.
Keith

Mike Cecil · #7 28-07-12, 23:16

Tony,

Try finding a copy of 'The Winston Specials' about the WS class convoys. It has excellent shipping information, and provides reasons why certain ships were used, trooping levels, and so on. A most useful reference.

Also, if you are into wartime merchant shipping, Jordan's 'Merchant Fleets 1939' is a must, and for wartime shipping losses 'Lloyds War Losses' Volumes 1 & 2, though hard to find, are invaluable.

I think you'll find that the first convoy from Australia, coded US1 was actually 11 ships - it did not contain either Aquitania or Empress of Britain, both of which were first used for ANZAC trooping as part of convoy US3 in May. In January, both Empress of Britain and Aquitania were busy with convoying Canadian troops in convoy TC3 from Halifax, Canada, to the Clyde (they had also participated in TC1 in December).

The first ANZAC troops to leave for overseas were the Advance Party, which left in mid-December aboard Strathallan.

Jordan lists the following for the Canadian Pacific Railway Company (owners), shipping managed by Canadian Pacific Steamships Ltd out of their London, UK, office:

Passenger vessels North Atlantic:
various 'Duchess' and 'Mont' prefix names plus
Empresses of: Australia, Britain

Passenger vessels, North Pacific:
Empresses of Asia, Canada, Japan, Russia.

Empress of Japan was renamed Empress of Scotland in late 1942, for obvious reasons!
Empress of Ireland was sunk in May 1914
Empress of Australia was originally launched as the Admiral Von Tirpitz, later changed to Tirpitz, and then the Empress of China before becoming the Empress of Australia.

The company also operated cargo vessels, all with names beginning with 'Beaver', eg 'Beaverbrae', 'Beaverburn', etc

I cannot find any wartime reference to Empress of Bermuda at all: it is not listed under that name in Jordan, so maybe it was renamed in the same way that the Empress of Japan was? Do you know if it had a different name at time of launch?

Regards

Mike C

Mike Cecil · #8 29-07-12, 02:14

OK, a bit of hunting and I located that it is the 'Monarch of Bermuda' you are referring to, not the 'Empress of Bermuda'.

Monarch of Bermuda was indeed launched in 1931, became the New Australia in 1949, then the Arkadia in 1958, before being broken up in 1966.

Built by Vickers Armstrong. Originally owned by Furness Withy & Co., then to the British Govt (1949), as an immigrant ship and operated by Shaw Saville Line, then sold to Ormos Sg Co (1959).

Monarch of Bermuda was also one of the transports for TC1 and TC3 from Canada, as well as the Norway force convoy. It went on trooping in a number of WS convoys around the Cape, as well KMF22 from the UK to Gibralter and Algiers.

Prewar, it was one of the two 'Millionaires' ships operated by the company, the other being the Queen of Bermuda, on the run from New York to Hamilton, Bermuda.

Mike C

Alex Blair (RIP) · #9 29-07-12, 03:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Cecil

OK, a bit of hunting and I located that it is the 'Monarch of Bermuda' you are referring to, not the 'Empress of Bermuda'.

Monarch of Bermuda was indeed launched in 1931, became the New Australia in 1949, then the Arkadia in 1958, before being broken up in 1966.

Built by Vickers Armstrong. Originally owned by Furness Withy & Co., then to the British Govt (1949), as an immigrant ship and operated by Shaw Saville Line, then sold to Ormos Sg Co (1959).

Monarch of Bermuda was also one of the transports for TC1 and TC3 from Canada, as well as the Norway force convoy. It went on trooping in a number of WS convoys around the Cape, as well KMF22 from the UK to Gibralter and Algiers.

Prewar, it was one of the two 'Millionaires' ships operated by the company, the other being the Queen of Bermuda, on the run from New York to Hamilton, Bermuda.

Mike C

Mike
Empress of Bermuda took the first Canadian troops to Britain, to smite the Hun,in WW 2
http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205125990

Mike Cecil · #10 29-07-12, 06:05

Thanks, but no, that was the Monarch of Bermuda, on convoy TC1.

Mike C

Lang · #11 29-07-12, 13:13

This is a coincidence. Two days ago I was going through my 93 year old Dad's stuff with him (he has decided to go into a retirement village instead of living on his own).

He wrote this in 1943 about his voyage in a troop ship in 1940. A bit hard to read as a scan but pretty interesting

hrpearce · #12 29-07-12, 21:37

Thanks for posting Lang, I right clicked on the scans and opened in another window at 150% and it was easy to read

Mike Cecil · #13 29-07-12, 22:21

Lang, very interesting reading.

Your father was on Convoy US5A (but see below) in October 1940, which comprised two troop transports: Nieuw Zeeland and Johan De Witt. Escort was HMAS Perth as far as the general area of the Cocos Islands and HMAS Canberra from there to Columbo. RN ships provided the escort from there to final ports in Egypt. Nieuw Zeeland had a total AIF roster of 58 officers and 876 ORs aboard, plus a number of vehicles and spares, among other stores. The 876 figure included 18 'stragglers' who had missed their ships from the previous convoy! OC Troops was Lt Col A H Hellstrom.

RE 'US5A': sometimes called US5B in the literature, with the preceeding convoy listed as US5A. However, the original archival documentation refers only to US5 and US5A, hence my calling it US5A above.

Mike C

alanfmills · #14 16-10-12, 09:15

My father and his 2 brothers crossed the Atlantic to the UK on convoys TC3 (Feb 1940) TC9 (Feb 41) and HX194 (June 42). I have a lot of info off convoyweb about the boats making up the convoys but wondered if anyone has records of first hand experiences on these or any other Atlantic convoys.
Best regards
Alan Mills