Canadian 105mm Arty shell markings

[Jacques Rioux]

Looking to complete a project and thought that this would be the place to ask. I need to create a stencil for a Canadian 105mm arty round, HE. Does anybody have a resource or information that can give me the information that is on the shell and if possible the dimensions of the lettering?
thanks

[Mike Cecil]

Did Canada manufacture 105-mm Howitzer ammunition or purchase from the US?

I have the marking specs for US 105-mm How HE M1 rounds, which I think conform to NATO standards, so should be close, if that would help.

Mike

[rob love]

Canada has manufactured it's 105 ammunition since the mid 50s.

The markings are likely standardized between the NATO nations. I think there may be markings in the Cdn C1 105 manual.....I'll have a check tomorrow.

[rob love]

No full page colour inserts in the manual I'm afraid, but there is what is included in the C1 manual from 1963.

[Jacques Rioux]

Awesome! Thanks again gang!

[Tony Smith]

Could you post up some pics of your project? Maybe before, during and after?

[maple_leaf_eh]

Originally Posted by Mike Cecil

Did Canada manufacture 105-mm Howitzer ammunition or purchase from the US?

I have the marking specs for US 105-mm How HE M1 rounds, which I think conform to NATO standards, so should be close, if that would help.

Mike

The explosives industry in Canada has become concentrated around Valleyfield near Montreal. Canada has small arms ammunition plants near Quebec City as well. Most/all are owned by General Dynamics. I found a Rand Corporation report that explained in smart arguments, that civilian for-profit ownership of certain defence industry sectors made more sense than to leave them in Crown Corporation or government departmental ownership.

Mike, to answer your specific question - https://www.gd-otscanada.com/services/all-caliber-lap/

[Mike Cecil]

Thanks Terry - all good info to know.

I can add (or muddy the waters?) to the markings info with the comment that, sometime after the diagram in Rob's post, both the USA and Australia (so I think it must be a NATO standard?) included a broad yellow band around the projectile, just below the shoulder. My US diagram is dated in the 1990s, and the images I have of Australian manufactured 105mm How HE ammunition show they were manufactured in the early 1990s. I took the images on the gunline during a live shoot in 2008. The howitzers were L118 Hamel.

I also looked at some period images on the AWM website, and this one:
https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/C318682

taken in August 1969 shows an M1 projectile with a light coloured band about to be loaded into an M2A2.


And this one, but date of manufacture unknown: https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/C1142179

But this one in 1967 does not: https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/C314824


I should also add that all 105 H ammunition fired by Australian gunners in South Vietnam was US supplied, not Australian.


Maybe it will depend on what time period is being represented?

Mike

[Mike Cecil]

Dennis, interesting image, thank you for posting: the projectiles seem to have a 1978 manufacture/filling date, which brings my previous comments about the yellow band into question in so far as Canadian production is concerned.

Mike

[rob love]

According to my chart above, the yellow band would denote a smoke round. If you really want confirmation, I can ask an artillery guy over at the main museum.
My chart is from the 1963 manual so may be dated. I can check the library here and see if we have something newer.

[edstorey]

Originally Posted by Mike Cecil

Did Canada manufacture 105-mm Howitzer ammunition or purchase from the US?

I have the marking specs for US 105-mm How HE M1 rounds, which I think conform to NATO standards, so should be close, if that would help.

Mike

The 1986 Arsenals Canada product catalogue listed the following range of artillery ammunition:

155mm Howitzer Shell, HE (TNT or Comp B), M107.
105mm Howitzer HE (TNT or Comp B) M1 Cartridge, Fuze M557/M739.
105mm Howitzer Practice Cartridge, Squash Head, C60.
105mm Howitzer Blank C29A1

Propelling Charge M119A2.
Propelling Charge M4A1.
Propelling Charge M4A2.
Propelling Charge M3.
Propelling Charge M3A1.
Propelling Charge M67 (for 105mm How.).

[Mike Cecil]

Thanks Ed
Mike

[rob love]

Here is a youtube video of the Alaskan railway shooting HE on their AVCON gun.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKlNzalXUFI
No yellow band on their ammunition.

[Mike Cecil]

Thanks Rob. Now you have me wondering why the differences ... another research rabbit hole awaits!

Mike

[Dennis Cardy]

Don't know if this helps.? Live fire Ex. Meaford ranges. 56 Fd. Mid 70's.