Cdn Army M-38 A-1 Jeep in UN colours, with .30 Cal Browning MG on pintle mount....

[Chris Preston]

'Afternoon Everyone,

Merry Christmas to all of you. Our Museum has taken our UN Jeep out of service for some much-needed repairs and maintenance to the front end and suspension. While we're at it, we're going to get the .30 Cal Browning MG mounted on a correct base-plate and pintle, rather than using the current jury rig built that was on the vehicle until earlier this morning. This mount was created by some well-intentioned but uniformed museum members some time ago who didn't do the research, and now we're hoping to correct that and do it properly.

Would anyone on this board have a schematic drawing for the correct base-plate and pintle mount for a .30 Cal Browning MG, as fitted to an M-38 A-1 Jeep? Even photos would help.

Speaking of photos - how does one post them on this board? (I'm some-what "technology" challenged, so if you can help - please keep than simple) I have a photo of our UN Jeep that I'd like to post here, but can't get it on this page).

Here's a link to our Museum: https://www.facebook.com/Friends-of-...9752694888399/.

Cheers,

Chris, in Victoria, BC

[rob love]

You will want a M31C mount. Here is a link to google images search for subject item:

https://www.google.ca/search?q=m31C+...w=1403&bih=698

[Grant Hopkins]

Now would be a good time to see if someone can even come up with a picture of a Canadian M38A1 with a pedestal mount gun.
There should be lots of people on here that would have first hand experience to say for sure.
I don't recall ever seeing one and most commonly seen in the UN pictures was the side mount "Z" arm. Might as well build one of them if that is the correct way to carry the gun.

[David Dunlop]

If anyone has a copy of the 1962 Edition of the Canadian Army Manual of Training CAMT 7-30, Battalion and Company Machine Guns, there is a photo on page 257 of M38A1 53-32194 sporting the M31C Pedestal Mount with a Browning .50 Cal HB.

I have seen a number of the M38A1's over the years with the floor drilled for installation of these mounts, and usually there is a reinforcing plate added under the floor.


David

[Chris Preston]

Thanks for the replies Rob and Grant - very interesting, particularly with respect to the "Z" mounting. AS Grant said - if we're going to do it, lets do it correctly.

Cheers,

Chris

[Wayne Hingley]

Originally Posted by Chris Preston

...very interesting, particularly with respect to the "Z" mounting. AS Grant said - if we're going to do it, lets do it correctly.

Hi Chris. See this link to another thread: http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...ad.php?t=23790

In short; there was a discussion about Z-mounts, and whether or not they were ever used on UN M38A1's. Apparently no photos have ever shown it in use on a UN jeep. Maybe something will surface...

[rob love]

There were 4 of the pedestal mounts on charge with 2VP right until the late 90s. They were redundant by then, and even in the 80s, they were not installed on any of the unit's M38A1s.

The side arm was a fairly late item, and was meant for the militia light armoured recce jeeps.

[Grant Hopkins]

I've looked through that thead in the past too. Perhaps I should specify I have not seen a Canadian M38A1 with anything other than a recoiless or a Z arm mounted in an in service photo. I've only seen one pic of a Canadian M38 with a .50 in the pedestal and I don't know the details to be sure it wasn't a reenactment group. I don't have a copy of the service publications M38A1 book, does anyone know if it includes such a photo?

[Chris Preston]

'Evening All,

Further to my original post and all the replies to it - Thanks very much for those, would anyone have a clear schematic drawing with dimensions of an M31C mounting for a .30 Cal Browning MG, or know of someone who has one they'ed be willing to part with?

Cheers,

Chris, in Victoria, BC

[Tom Clark]

In the the hobby you soon learn to do it right the first time as it costs the same and takes just as long usually if you do it wrong. Have checked all resources I can and haven't been able to substantiate a Canadian Army UN marked jeep with a pedistle mount 30 or 50 Cal. I would encourage removing it to maintain the integrity of the museum unless it can be supported by some form of documentation. Although it does look cool it's not correct from what my research has shown to date
For what it's worth

[Wayne Hingley]

Originally Posted by Tom Clark

... Have checked all resources I can and haven't been able to substantiate a Canadian Army UN marked jeep with a pedistle mount 30 or 50 Cal. I would encourage removing it to maintain the integrity of the museum unless it can be supported by some form of documentation. Although it does look cool it's not correct from what my research has shown to date
For what it's worth

I have the exact same thoughts, especially since it is a museum piece, and should accurately depict the reality of those UN vehicles.

[Ed Storey]

The M31C Mount was an interesting M38A1CDN accessory that in Canadian service was not intended to be used with the M1919A4 .30 cal but with the M2 .50 cal. I have yet to find any evidence of the M31C mount being used on a UN mission. Both photos are from CAMT 7-30.

[David Dunlop]

My gut feeling, based solely on the Canadian Government's approach to Miltary Peacekeeping over the years, would be the M31C mount for ANY machine gun, would look far too aggressive. If they could get away with it, they would probably not issue machine guns to any Canadian Peacekeeping troops at all.

The other problem I see with the jeep mounted M31C is the gunner is far too exposed, in the standing position needed to operate it.


David