|
|
|
|
#1
19-06-09, 10:45
|
||||
|
||||
Pattern '37 Bren Mag pouches
Just to identify a relatively uncommon item of Pattern '37 webbing, the Bren Gunner's Mag pouch:
These pouches at first glance appear to be similar to the standard Basic pouch, but there are differences. The Bren Mag pouch is thicker in section to hold 3x 30rd Mags. It is not secured to the belt like the Basic pouch, but the set has it's own thinner web strap that is sewn to the front pouch and fits through a loop in the rear pouch. These are worn on the left side of the torso at the front and rear. This particular pair are made by Zephyr Looms and Textiles, Canada in 1943. 
|
|
#2
19-06-09, 10:55
|
||||
|
||||
|
And just to compare, here is the standard Basic Pouch. this used 2 brass clips to secure to the web belt, and buckles to fit a shoulder strap. This was much more a utility pouch with multiple uses.
Each pouch could hold around 100rds of .303 ammunition (3x 32rd cartons, 2x 48rd carton, or 2x 50 bandoliers), 2x 30rd Bren Mags, 3x No36 Mills Grenades, or a variety of other combinations.
|
|
#3
19-06-09, 11:52
|
|||
|
|||
|
1937 Pattern Web Equipment
Tony, thank you for the images of the web equipment, what you have in your top posting is a set of Utility Pouches and the bottom post shows what is known as a Basic Pouch. Here are the details and some images,
The Utility Pouches were issued as a pair, front and rear that were attached by a 2.5cm (1in) web strap at the bottom and a web Yoke at the top. Each Utility Pouch was a rectangular web case that was designed to carry three Bren 30 round magazines, or two Anti-tank Rifle Magazines, or Small Arms Ammunition, or a number of Grenades, or a Water Bottle. They were secured with a flap at the top, hinged at the rear, which was fastened with a brass stud fastener on a short web tab. The inside of the flap on Canadian Basic Pouches has three web loops sewn on it, these are to secure three Balistite Cartridges which are used to launch grenades from the Rifle when a Cup Discharger is used. Each Pouch is labelled front and rear; the difference being that at the bottom of the rear of the front Pouch was attached a 2.5cm (1in) strap similar to the Supporting Strap; in that it had a 2.5cm (1in) buckle on one end and a metal end-cap on the other. The rear Pouch had a web slot at the rear in which the metal end-cap was slipped through. At the top rear of the Pouch was a 4.0cm (1½in) metal buckle for attachment to the Yoke. The web material used to secure this buckle to the Pouch has a gap between it and the pouch in which the Yoke passes through. The Utility Pouches were designed to be worn diagonally across the rear of the wearer so that the front Pouch was on the front left hand side of the wearer and the rear Pouch was on the rear right hand side of the wearer. The Yoke would run across the back. When secured, the 2.5cm (1in) metal buckle and eyeletted end-piece were centred at the front of the wearer just above the centre buckle of Waistbelt. In order to unencumber the wearer, the Utility Pouches could also be secured around the Haversack with a Pouch mounted on each end, the Yoke passing under the top flap of the Haversack, and the web strap wrapped around the body of the Haversack. This was done by some units for the Normandy Invasion when large amounts of equipment were carried for the initial assault. Utility Pouches were to be issued at a scale of four sets for each Bren Gun (for the carriage of 24 Magazines) and two sets for each Anti-tank Rifle (for the carriage of 8 Magazines).    The Utility Pouch Yoke was a wide section of 6.4cm (2½in) web shoulder section with a 5.0cm (2in) web strap at each end. Yokes were manufactured in two distinct ways, the first was the original method were the 6.4cm (2½in) wide portion for the shoulders narrows to the 5.0cm (2in) strap. The second method is a 5.0cm (2in) strap is encased in a tapered 6.4cm (2½in) web shoulder section. In all cases the ends of the straps have metal eyeletted end-pieces.  The Basic Pouch was a rectangular web case that was designed to carry two Bren 30 round magazines, or Small Arms Ammunition or Grenades. They were interchangeable and secured with a flap at the top, hinged at the rear, which was fastened with a brass stud fastener on a short web tab. The inside of the flap on Canadian Basic Pouches has three web loops sewn on it, these are to secure three Balistite Cartridges which are used to launch grenades from the Rifle when a Cup Discharger is used. At the bottom of the rear of the Pouch was a pair of metal hooks that fastened into the flat web loops of the Waistbelt. At the top rear of the Pouch is a triple slot metal buckle for attachment to the Braces and the metal hook on the Shoulder Straps. The web material used to secure this buckle to the Pouch has a gap between it and the pouch in which the Brace passes through. Canadian produced Basic Pouches were manufactured in three sizes to meet the changing needs of the military as new weapons were developed. There were, however, four distinct types produced during the Second World War. The difference in the four types is the overall length of the pouch as well as the way in which the triple slot metal buckle is attached to the pouch. The first type of pouch is the original 1937 Pattern designed to carry two Bren magazines and was in production until 1942. The second type is a lengthened pouch that was designed so that the 30 round Sten magazines could be carried inside and was introduced in 1942 when the Sten began to begin to be issued. The first type of pouch was not long enough to accommodate the Sten magazine. The third type uses a different version of the triple slot metal buckle, which was manufactured in steel instead of brass. The fourth type employs the same triple slot metal buckle as the third type, but it is longer then the other three and more importantly, was specifically designed to accommodate the 32 round 9mm Sten Magazine. The other major distinguishing features of this fourth type is that first of all the three web loops, sewn into the inside flap for Balistite Cartridges, have been discontinued. Secondly, there are sections of web sewn into the top of the pouch in order to lengthen it. All four pouches were issued concurrently and no distinction was made officially between them. Each is stamped ‘SMALL’ on the back.  This image shows the three different sized variations of Basic Pouch as well as the Basic Pouch which was designed for Sten Magazines.   
|
|
#4
19-06-09, 12:12
|
||||
|
||||
|
MLU does it again
MLU seems to have the answers for just about ANYTHING .... I'm impressed
__________________
1940 cab 11 C8 1940 Morris-Commercial PU 1941 Morris-Commercial CS8 1940 Chev. 15cwt GS Van ( Aust.) 1942-45 Jeep salad
|
|
#5
17-01-10, 00:22
|
||||
|
||||
|
Today I was digging through a pile of "FRONTS" & found this one that is a little different.
It has a rounded bottom No markings on the inside On the top strap yolk it has a circle with what looks to be the top half of a 5 point star & under it it looks like nl 507 Under that is a large "F" (front?) & DOM. A. CO 1951 Hard to see markings.  Rounded bottom  Pic for referance of the circle marking, with "ARROW" ? 
|
|
#6
23-02-10, 18:58
|
||||
|
||||
|
Quote:
Dale
__________________
ARTE et MARTE by skill and by fighting Royal Canadian Electrical & Mechanical Engineers
|
|
#7
17-01-10, 01:15
|
||||
|
||||
|
Quote:
Following my original post, entirely unsolicited, Charlie Fitton generously offered to post me a Cdn Yoke Strap to complete my Utility Pouch pair. Your gesture is thoroughly appreciated and gratefully accepted.  
|
|
#8
11-02-10, 07:51
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Bren Gun or Utility Pouches (aka-Bren Gun Bras)
Hello!
My name is Keyan Noble and I'm a new member to this forum. Good information on the Bren Gun (Utility) Pouches; aka the Bren Gunn Bra.
|
|
#9
11-02-10, 16:17
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Bren Gun or Utility Pouches (aka-Bren Gun Bras)
Hi!
I recently purchased 2 of these Rear Bren Gun (Utility) Pouches from a local tool/hardware store, Princess Auto (www.princessauto.com), p/n 8305303; thinking that they were Basic Pouchees. I paid $9.99 each plus the 13% Nova Scotia Provincial Sales, which came to a total of $22.58 Canadian for the pair. They are in mint, new, factory-unissued condition (no stains or fadding); tan in color; C-Broad Arrow marked; Manufacturerstamped Z.L.&T.Ltd. (Zephyr Looms & Textiles Limited); 1940 War Dated; have brass snap closure and strap attaching hardware (no oxidization or corrosion); and are inked stamped "REAR" on the center of their backs. It is my understanding that the soldiers who used the Utility Pouches as a set (Rear Pouch, Front Pouch with Waiste Belt permanently sewn on the bottom of its back, and the Yoke Strap) in their respective units, commonly referred to them as the Bren Gun Bra. My Senior NCO of my Re-Enactment Unit, Maritimes World War 2 Re-Enactment Unit (We're on Kijiji and Facebook.), advised me that they had a set of these in his last Re-Enactment Unit in northern British Columbia. Would anyone be able to tell me where I can get my hands on a Yoke Strap; and, if possible, the Waiste Strap in the same condtions as my 2 Rear Utility Pouches mentioned above? Ideally, I would like to use my to rear pouches to make up my Bren Gun Bra Set. Is this possible? If not, where can I get my hands on 2 Font Pouches with attached Waiste Belt and 2 Yoke Straps (in same condtion as my Rear Pouches stated above)? Your assitance in this matter would be greatly appreciated. Thanks and keep up the good work on this site! Rgs...Pte. Keyan Noble Rifleman, Dutch Resistance Fighter & Unit Weapons NCO Maritimes World War 2 Re-Enactment Unit 
|
 |
|
|
Hybrid Mode
