Improved Texas self defence bill

sapper740 · #1 23-03-07, 14:42

Just announced in the Dallas Morning news, a new self-defence Bill has unanimously passed both the upper and lower houses of the Texas state legislature and has been presented to the Governor for signing. The Bill makes three major changes to current law:

-It extends the "Your home is your castle" doctrine to anywhere a person "has a right to be."

-You can no longer be sued by the attacker, or their family.

-It creates a "presumption of self-defence" much like the presumption of innocence in all other cases.

Previously, if you used Deadly Force in self-defence outside of your home you could expect charges to be preferred and a lawsuit from the survivor or their family. Law abiding citizens who had used deadly force had been treated much as Rape victims were treated in the past, that somehow you were the Bad Actor or were looking for trouble when the attack occurred, further, you had to show proof that you had "attempted to retreat." No longer. Opponents of the Bill have complained that criminals may take advantage of this Bill to kill rival gang members, but the provisions of the Bill only apply to those who aren't in violation of the law during the act. So, if you are illegally in possesion of a firearm during the shooting, which all Gang-bangers are, you don't receive protection under the new Bill.
After decades of listening to clap-trap from Canadian Justice ministers of how "Canadians don't need fire-arms for self protection, we have the police to protect us.", it's refreshing to live in a part of the world where law abiding citizens can and may defend themselves! God bless Texas! Derek.

alleramilitaria · #2 23-03-07, 15:51

the HOA better watch out

rob love · #3 23-03-07, 16:14

Quote:

The Hill Times, March 19th, 2007
LETTERS

To understand misuse of guns, look at Texas
Re: "Millions use firearms safely," by Barry Glasgow (The Hill Times, Letter to the Editor, March 5).

In response to my earlier letter ("Ordinary people misuse guns too," Feb. 19), Barry Glasgow writes: "Letter writer Mahmood Elahi claims that 'Many ordinary people are prone to misuse guns especially when they are too depressed, paranoid, angry or jealous,' yet no data was presented to back this up." Well, I provided lots of data which The Hill Times edited out. I mentioned Texas as a case study of the havoc caused by the proliferation of guns in private hands. I would again like to draw the attention to what is happening in Texas with highest number of guns in private hands

When 14-year-old Juan Ramon got angry after a family row, he didn't kick the family dog or sulk, he did what many Texans traditionally do when they get very angry: with a family gun ready at hand, he started shooting. He shot a dog and injured three neighbours, before killing a cop who had answered an emergency call. Later in the day, Juan Ramon was killed in a hail of police bullets.

Nobody really knows why Juan did it–everyone knows if there were no guns in the house, this would not have taken place. Juan Ramon's weekend shooting spree was quickly followed by several other shooting deaths–and all within weeks of the Feb. 28, 1993, shootout at the Branch Davidian cult's compound near Waco. In the Lone Star state, the national capital of the gun culture, such stark tragedies are nothing unusual.

Texas has a population of about 17 million. Between them, they own 68 million guns–or four guns for every man, woman and child. Texas has no state gun registry law and Houston has more gun dealers than any other city. Not surprisingly, thousands are being cut down by gunfire every year in Texas.

After Waco, The Houston Chronicle railed against the Texan gun cuture. It decried the Waco killings, recalling also the 1991 massacre at Luby's Restaurant in nearby Killeen where a deranged man armed with an assault rifle shot dead 22 people.

The confusion and indifference over what to do about the anarchic proliferation of guns is not confined to Texas. Shootings by students at various schools in America have shocked the nation many times. In a bizarre case of domestic violence, Michigan Representative Raymond Murphy was charged for allegedly using a pistol to threaten his wife because she didn't bring him leftovers from a picnic. If the wife also had a gun, certainly there would have been a gunfight with dire consequences. Last week, a disgruntled eployee at a printshop in California shot three of his fellow employees to death because he was unhappy with his boss.

Mahmood Elahi
Ottawa, Ont.

Here was a letter to the editor a Liberal sent in here in Canada re the Texas gun culture. Makes it sould like you guys are running a shooting gallery there.
This was posted on canadiangunnutz.com, whose members did not share the authors selective vision regarding the right to self defense.

alleramilitaria · #4 23-03-07, 16:27

most of the guns used at waco by the B.D. were illeagle and most not purchased in the US. others were converted again not leagle to fire full auto. this could have been done anyplace.

and a huge amount of vilonce today in texas has nothing to do with texas.

1. after katrena the gangs from new orleans moved to houston, now its the houston vs the new orleans gangs. if there was not a single gun in texas there would still be a gang war there.

2. mexican gangs are fighting over drug routs and distro areas for the drugs. many of the guns there are coming from mexico, again if we had no guns "the texans" there would still be shootings from the mexicans.

3. and in the lubys incident there was no right to carry law here. there were 2 people eating there who had handguns locked up in there cars and could have stopped the shootings if they were allowed to carry there firearms.

4. its a well known FACT that if you have a right to carry law passed viloent crime drops 50 to 70% due to the fact that the criminals know they dont have a free ride anymore. just look at WA state.

sorry but numbers dont lie

sapper740 · #5 23-03-07, 17:35

Quote:

Originally posted by rob love
Here was a letter to the editor a Liberal sent in here in Canada re the Texas gun culture. Makes it sould like you guys are running a shooting gallery there.
This was posted on canadiangunnutz.com, whose members did not share the authors selective vision regarding the right to self defense.

It's all too easy to use hyperbole in an emotional debate on a subject such as gun control. Mahmood Elahi, who I'm sure is a fine Canadian, does his side a disservice by shrilly decrying the "gun culture in Texas."
Let's calmly and rationally look at the facts. I looked up a few statistics and I can compare statistics from 2005 for Canada and Texas.

Firstly population:

In 2005 Canada's population was set at 32,805,041 while Texas' population was set at 22,859,968. The best estimates for Illegal Aliens residing in Texas put the number at 7 to 10 million, so the unofficial population of Texas could exceed that of the entire country of Canada, so let's compare apples to apples.

Homicides in Canada in 2005: 658
Homicides in Texas in 2005: 1,407

Significantly more, granted, but not the "thousands" expounded by Mr. Elahi and his ilk. But, consider this, most of the murders in Texas are Black-on-Black, Hispanic-on-Hispanic, Drug dealer-on-Drug dealer, or Gang banger-on-Gang Banger and tend to be concentrated in certain geographical areas. I'm willing to bet that if one could retrieve the racial and criminal proportion of the homicide rate out of the total, you'd find that a White, law-abiding citizen who stays out of Oak Cliff or Northside Drive area of Fort Worth is far safer in Texas than in Canada. Why? because one doesn't want to piss someone off here because they are probably carrying a pistol. When I lived and commuted to work in Vancouver, B.C. I was flipped off 6-10 times a day by other hot-headed commuters. Here in Texas, I've maybe been flipped off 6-10 times in 5 1/2 years! An armed citizenry is a polite citizenry. Derek.

rob love · #6 23-03-07, 18:05

Quote:

Originally posted by sapper740
I'm willing to bet that if one could retrieve the racial and criminal proportion of the homicide rate out of the total,

Can't be done up here...it's not politically correct.

Don't worry, the guys here have sent in letters to counter the tripe that Mahmood took the time to assemble. Interesting how he had to go back 14 years to quote events to support his views.

sapper740 · #7 23-03-07, 18:47

Quote:

Originally posted by rob love
Can't be done up here...it's not politically correct.

Don't worry, the guys here have sent in letters to counter the tripe that Mahmood took the time to assemble. Interesting how he had to go back 14 years to quote events to support his views.

Just joined canadiangunnutz. Looks like a great forum. I look forward to boring them as much as I've bored all y'all here on MLU.

#8 23-03-07, 20:43

Quote:

Originally posted by sapper740
An armed citizenry is a polite citizenry. Derek.

Sounds about right

It's just a sad statement on life in general that people even have to consider such strong measures to begin with. Fear for own safety really does stop people from doing rotten deeds to others, desperate or not, more often than not. It "usually" works when reasoning and pleas don't ... logically. Berzerkers? Nothing stops them when they go off, thank goodness, in spite of all the stories and mega publicity when they go off, berzerkers really don't happen ofen in relation to population and frequency. Media over-coverage (ratings?) gives the illusion it does and gets everyone in a tizzy and just wanting to get rid of what they see is the problem ... the weapon itself. Where I sit, weapons are not the problem, but realistically thinking, personal security of self and material possessions are more likely if criminals/whoever figures a target might have a weapon and hurt them, therefore they just don't go there. Law abiding folks with social concience and a gun will use the gun for protection and as a deterent to violations in a world where we are all at risk ... defenceless.

I guess Ma Yappy agrees in "It's okay to have a gun when the gun is about selfprotection and not about committing crimes and violence against others"

I do, however, believe that anyone gtting licenced to own them needs to pass screening tests to be careful about who has guns though. Don't want a criminal or a known rageaholic targeting me or anyone else with one

I just hate the idea that we even have to think about something lik this. But ... sadly ... we do.

Karmen

#9 23-03-07, 20:45

Quote:

Originally posted by sapper740
Just joined canadiangunnutz. Looks like a great forum. I look forward to boring them as much as I've bored all y'all here on MLU.

YOU? BORING??? ha ha ha ha ha ha he he ha

... not a chance!

Ma

Jon Skagfeld · #10 24-03-07, 01:38

Quote:

Originally posted by sapper740
Just joined canadiangunnutz. Looks like a great forum. I look forward to boring them as much as I've bored all y'all here on MLU.

Derek: Welcome to gunnutz...a very informative forum!

I'm "Rule 303", what's your nom de plume?

sapper740 · #11 24-03-07, 02:03

Quote:

Originally posted by Jon Skagfeld
Derek: Welcome to gunnutz...a very informative forum!

I'm "Rule 303", what's your nom de plume?

Ex CME. Looking forward to reading some of your threads and hopefully being a positive contributor to the forum. I've been a serious gun collector, reloader, and shooter for decades and I'm hoping to be a good fit. Derek.

alleramilitaria · #12 24-03-07, 02:09

to get a gun from a dealer here you still have to be screened, and if you know you are not suposed to have a gun (fellon) then you go away for years.

hey sapper just to let you know after looking at many vendors that all the long nose brass is coming from one place... the balkins. thats why the price has gone up in the last few years. no one else will touch blanks when they can make more selling the real thing to the armies around the world.

#13 24-03-07, 11:05

Quote:

Originally posted by alleramilitaria
to get a gun from a dealer here you still have to be screened, and if you know you are not suposed to have a gun (fellon) then you go away for years.

Hi Dave,

Are people screened for mental health issues as well? I assumed that past records would be screened for

Thanks,

Karmen

Bruce MacMillan · #14 25-03-07, 01:54

Remember when surplus stores looked like this?

It's history here in Canada, but I visited this one last year and it's open for business.

Unfortunately it's in Belgium!

alleramilitaria · #15 25-03-07, 02:02

is that andrews place near mons?

Bruce MacMillan · #16 25-03-07, 02:43

It's Arsenal Military Sales (AMS) in Rouveroy, Belgium, near Mons.

It's one of those places you and your pocket book shouldn't be allowed unescorted!!

sapper740 · #17 25-03-07, 03:01

Quote:

Originally posted by Bruce MacMillan
Remember when surplus stores looked like this?

It's history here in Canada, but I visited this one last year and it's open for business.

Unfortunately it's in Belgium!

Bruce, did you ever get to see Tom Bongalis' collection in North Vancouver? He lived in Pemberton Heights across the street from Capilano Elementary school and the entire basement of his very large house was bulging at the seams with over 10,000 firearms of all types. He later opened Castle Armoury on lower Mountain Highway where he had a retail outlet along with his movie prop-gun business. He unfortunately died of lung cancer about 10 years ago and his daughter Gail took over the business. His personal collection was auctioned off by Bud Haynes which included among other things; Billy Miner's pistol, functional MG08/15, a couple of Besas, and many other M.P.'s, Macs, Uzis...you name it.. Quite a guy.

alleramilitaria · #18 25-03-07, 03:15

hey as you know that pile at AMS is nice but the good stuff is up on the walls, and its all operational!!!!!

i see he has cleaned it up somewhat, really a first class place to purchas toys. and sapper its on the way to arnherm from normandy!!!!!
dave

Bruce MacMillan · #19 25-03-07, 03:46

" Bruce, did you ever get to see Tom Bongalis' collection in North Vancouver?"

No, I didn't know Tom. And yes you wonder what ever happened to that collection. There is no listing for Castle Armoury anymore.

It must have been some collection. Re-enforced concrete walls and a bank vault door in his basement. I found this pic of him in one of the rooms.

re: AMS
"the good stuff is up on the walls, and its all operational!!!!!"

don't forget the 50 cals and the flamethrower on the floor.

Derek... we have 4 people so far from WC that expressed interest in doing Normandy2009. If you want to join us PM your email to me and I'll include you on our email group.
Dave is right, there's stuff for sale over there we haven't seen for decades.