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Radioactivity and our hobby
In light of the discussion that went on here
close up picture of Mk1 Speedometer required I thought I would provide this information on how Canada's regulator views these gauges and instruments. In Canada there are no restrictions in owning the gauges and equipment, however if you want to do any restoration work on the equipment you must have a CNSC Licence, which is very difficult and involved to get. You will see a press release that came out today below Best, Rick Quote:
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#2
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Radium paint
"... the paint itself breaks down and may no longer glow ..."
So, I shouldn't be licking the dust out from behind the guages' glasses? BTW, I will try to get to the Nepean Sportsplex on Sat and will see if the nice men from the government have anything to add to the press release.
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Terry Warner - 74-????? M151A2 - 70-08876 M38A1 - 53-71233 M100CDN trailer Beware! The Green Disease walks among us! |
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The radioactive folks actually booked a table and came out to the Military collectors club of Canada show in Winnipeg this summer. It was a very small show, but it seems they have the funds to get the word out. Overall, they seemed a lot more mellow than the radiation guys from the DND, whose policy seems to be "rip it all out, sieze it, bag it and tag it".
They have a number you can call if you have damaged or old radioactive items, and they will arrange collection. |
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My compliments to the Canadian Government
Hi All
Just finished reading all the material and resulted linked documents, my compliments to the Canadian Government and the Canadian Nuclear Safety Commission for actually putting out informative and not alarmist information, and for willingness to interact in a constructive manner with the collector hobbies. Well done. Did a search for similar information on the US Government Web site us.gov using the search phrase "radium luminous device" got lots of results 37-41,000 but nothing identifiable as useful. Interestingly I did find one US Army document date June 1999 that basically said all vehicles and aircraft produced before 1969 should have the gauges removed before the vehicles are disposed of by the US Government. The search did turn up some interesting reading but generally long winded and technical. My reading of the situation, won't be taking any of the military style gauges apart. Cheers Phil Cheers Phil
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Phil Waterman `41 C60L Pattern 12 `42 C60S Radio Pattern 13 `45 HUP http://canadianmilitarypattern.com/ New e-mail Philip@canadianmilitarypattern.com |
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Quote:
H.
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Regards, Hanno -------------------------- |
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I remember back in the 70/80's, a lot of the lorries in Britsh Army had their guages checked for radioactivity. Most "amusing" thing was the air guages on the AEC Militants, they affixed a warning triangle label on the face so you could not read the air brake pressure
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Richard 1943 Bedford QLD lorry - 1941 BSA WM20 m/cycle - 1943 Daimler Scout Car Mk2 Member of MVT, IMPS, MVG of NSW, KVE and AMVCS KVE President & KVE News Editor |
#7
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Oh My God......
What if the Canadian Guverment finds out the risk of working on CMPs.... dropping axles off the axle stand, smearing ourselves in cancer producing petroleum compounds, sandblasting lead base paint, siphoning gas with our mouthes, and eating breakfast at Rosa without washing our hands......countless mind numbing hours on the web looking at MLU postings....
.... we will all be confiscated !!! bagged and tagged...... We are heading for H*ll ......... Bob
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Bob Carriere....B.T.B C15a Cab 11 Hammond, Ontario Canada |
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As I recall, when the drivers took their 5 tons over to supply to turn them in, they parked the trucks out back and had to bring the control panels in to the R&D guys. I think all those trucks went to Cold Lake for targets. Most of them were 1976 vintage, so likely would not have had the radium gauges anyway unless some old stock turned up.
Back in the 90s, I helped set up an outdoor museum display at the Moose Jaw armouries. A few years after I left that province, the geiger counter guys went through and if the alarm read any amount of radioactivity from any one of the guages, they undid the four screws on the control panel and ripped the whole thing out. |
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Radiation at the border
My CMP set off the radiation detectors at the border a couple of times. Kind of an interesting exercise for them. My speedometer and oil pressure gauge are the only original ones and while they don't even glow after holding a flashlight on them they still set off the detectors. I'm actually quite happy that they can pick up that minute amount.
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Those guys should go to Russia. I had a talk with an oilfield worker who worked over there and he told about a glass-like patch of ground they crossed. Oh, that's just where we put out a well fire with a tactical nuke! Nobody even considered that there might be a radiation problem! I told him to get a personal radiation detector and carry it at all times.
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1940 Cab 11 C8 Wireless with 1A2 box & 11 set 1940 Cab 11 C8 cab and chassis 1940 Cab 11 C15 with 2A1 & Motley mount & Lewis gun 1940 Cab 11 F15A w/ Chev rear ends 1941 Cab 12 F15A 1942-44 Cab 13 F15A x 5 1942 cab 13 F15A with 2B1 box 1943 cab 13 F15A with 2H1 box 1943 Cab 13 C8A HUP 1944 Cab 13 C15A with 2C1 box 1943 Cletrac M2 High Speed Tractor MkII Bren gun carrier chassis x 2 |
#11
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radioactive gauges
A few years back i borrowed a radiation detector and tested various vehicles and gauges that i had access to.
The 19 set on/off switch (glow in the dark removable cap) and the 1953 M38, 1953 M38A1 Convoy light switch cap had the highest readings while the needles on the original MB gauges were also high. These were very localized and the readings dropped drastically when the detector was moved farther away. The 1967 M38A1 and 1974 M151A2 gauges did not pick up any substantial radiation. The original WW2 gauges did have radioactive readings, higher than personal limits permitted. The reproduction gauges had no readings. If the gauges are off white, closer to a cream colour, thicker than normal, cracking, flat finish, then there is a good chance that it is original and is radioactive. Do not take these apart to rebuild. I have talked to US Border Patrol Supervisors and they suggested that we notify them in advance if we plan on taking a MV across the border, which might have radioactive gauges. So that when the sensor alarms go off they have an idea of what it is. The article was published in CMP #42 2007. Thanks Eric
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Collecting data on the WW2 Canadian jeep and trailer. Serial, WD Numbers etc. |
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Opening up a can of worms, great is all I can say. Just a nail in the coffin to yet another nice hobby we all enjoy...
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3RD Echelon Wksp 1968 M274A5 Mule Baifield USMC 1966 M274A2 Mule BMY USMC 1958 M274 Mule Willys US Army 1970 M38A1 CDN3 70-08715 1 CSR 1981 MANAC 3/4T CDN trailer 1943 Converto Airborne Trailer 1983 M1009 CUCV RT-524, PRC-77s, and trucks and stuff and more stuff and and....... OMVA, MVPA, G503, Steel Soldiers |
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All, well done bringing this to our attention. Again, an example of the wealth of knowledge and experience available on MLU!
If you believe it or not, this is part of our hobby and we have to take care of it. Thanks to those concerned for bringing this to our attention. Quote:
I'd like to second what Lynn said on the thread close up picture of Mk1 Speedometer required: Quote:
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Regards, Hanno -------------------------- |
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Good show Rick, nice to know folk are looking into this..... Rob, its also interesting to note different organisations treat the issue ith different approaches, this echo'd in the initial thread between Medical and Industrial companies...... problem is that not enough is known YET but hopefully with raised awareness folk can take steps to protect themselves and familie's or know what steps to take if they need a gauge removed etc etc
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is mos redintegro __5th Div___46th Div__ 1942 Ford Universal Carrier No.3 MkI* Lower Hull No. 10131 War Department CT54508 (SOLD) 1944 Ford Universal Carrier MkII* (under restoration). 1944 Morris C8 radio body (under restoration). |
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Well I knew there was something weird looking about those gauges in the jeep! They looked crusty and well old Haha like many of us so I was thinking of redoing the faces etc..this winter. Hey I could save on Xrays or even better open my own private X-Ray lab out here in BC! That's the latest... private medicine right?
All kidding aside I'll check to see if they glow with a light and then the black light...and no I will leave em where they are for now. They seem to work so no need to wreck it right? Thanks for the info good thing to know especially when buying a rebuilt guage! Was it opened and repainted with the bad stuff lurking under the new paint? From the wet west coast...Casey
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M38A1 CDN 53-32490 |
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Nope no glow but I did check it with a LED flash light? Light is light right?
Pretty much white with the cream coloured end of each needle and the numbers look a little like the day old whip cream...a little crusty and off white? I am not gonna run out and buy rent a gyger counter to make sure. Maybe the radiation chick that goes to Chernobyle will come and check for us...? just a thought.
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M38A1 CDN 53-32490 |
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This is a good description of the dangers of old instruments.
Basically, leave them alone. If you use them as designed they offer little danger so long as you don't carry them around in your pocket continuously. Looks like we all have to destroy our pre-1960's watches! http://www.trademarklondon.com/Radiation/index.html Lang |
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AAAAARGH ! I have my grandad's field compass and have had since I was eight ! I used to take it everywhere with me, in my pocket!!! I always wondered why the direction of travel marker appeared rusty and brown.... It's painted in the outside of the glass too...... Oh lord !
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is mos redintegro __5th Div___46th Div__ 1942 Ford Universal Carrier No.3 MkI* Lower Hull No. 10131 War Department CT54508 (SOLD) 1944 Ford Universal Carrier MkII* (under restoration). 1944 Morris C8 radio body (under restoration). |
#19
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Quote:
This topic has been covered in the past on MLU as well as in various MV publications, I believe that hobbyists have knowledge of the situation. Pointing out the obvious and drawing attention to the hobby IS counter-productive. Involvement of Government in our hobby is also detrimental. All it will take is a motion to outlaw or ban publicly owned military vehicles because of the "dangerous nature" they pose to the greater good of our society. If you do not believe there are already motions afoot to do such things, then you my friend are the one who has his head in the sand. Personally, I am a purist when doing a restoration. I like my original equipment. Should those in power decide for us that it is in everyones best interest to ban, destroy or outlaw this part of MV equipment, WE are forced to use civilian parts. I can see this happening as was pointed out in a previous post when the Government pulled dash boards before auction. Perhaps the military nature of these vehicles will also be brought forward as they become deemed "threatening to the public". I can see some bureaucrat deciding whats best as well and having US paint them in bright colours to differentiate publicly owned MVs from real in service equipment. Personally, I do not want a red army truck nor a yellow one. If I did, I would collect fire trucks but then again I can see someone thinking that WE should not be able to own those either. We are aware of lead paint, radioactive gauges etc. In industry, the control measures to eliminate such things are a never ending stream of redtape, paper, documentation and government inspection and control, not to mention the tremendous costs. Metal refinishing is already under the microscope because of lead, remediation, control and disposal of waste being looked at. It could get to a point where even sandblasting becomes cost prohibitive to the average hobbyists. Imagine having to pay for HAZMAT disposal for your luminous gauages as well? Or maybe having to aquire special licensing to own, use, transport, buy, sell, trade etc your MV or to even work on it with special training and tools? I have been through all this crap before in the gun collecting hobby with those in power deciding whats in the best interest of the public with zero to little knowledge of facts, smoke screening the public from real issues (such as crime, drugs etc) and blaming law abiding people for their lack of control and responsiblity. I digress. In the best interest of OUR hobby I believe in letting sleeping dogs lay, instead promote positive aspects to Officials instead of the negative and possibly detrimental ones which may bite US in the END.
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3RD Echelon Wksp 1968 M274A5 Mule Baifield USMC 1966 M274A2 Mule BMY USMC 1958 M274 Mule Willys US Army 1970 M38A1 CDN3 70-08715 1 CSR 1981 MANAC 3/4T CDN trailer 1943 Converto Airborne Trailer 1983 M1009 CUCV RT-524, PRC-77s, and trucks and stuff and more stuff and and....... OMVA, MVPA, G503, Steel Soldiers Last edited by chris vickery; 27-10-12 at 17:05. Reason: spelling |
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gauges
what Chris said, this stuff went out the door 50 years ago , we've been living with this stuff our entire lives , from desert nuke tests to all the MV's at the bottom of every ocean , in every forest , in every desert , in every jungle, not to mention all the aircraft , radios , etc,and all the nuke accidents , nothing they could do now will ever make any difference, other than to ruin our lives with more regs.
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Quote:
Quote:
I think the Canadian example is a good one on how to handle a potentially dangerous situation. The risks are minimal if people know what to do, and are not to be compared to the risks of firearms which therefore require other rules & regulations. H.
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Regards, Hanno -------------------------- |
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