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  #1  
Old 02-04-21, 03:12
Peter Mossong Peter Mossong is offline
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Default Trying to ID these guns...

Hi all. Trying to identify the guns in this National Archives of New Zealand photograph. Taken in 1940, showing a New Zealand Artillery unit at the Waiouru Army training area in the central North Island.

At that time we had 6" howitzers, 60lb guns and 4.5' howitzers in use by the Heavy Field units. Towing vehicles appear to be Leyland Retrievers.
Just a pity the tarpaulins are covering the weapons!!!



and a close up crop:



TIA, Pete M.
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  #2  
Old 02-04-21, 03:49
Grant Bowker Grant Bowker is offline
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For comparison:
On the website https://natlib.govt.nz/records/22901789 the attached image is stated to be a 60 lb gun
Attached Thumbnails
60 lb gun.jpg  
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  #3  
Old 03-04-21, 00:46
Mike Cecil Mike Cecil is online now
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Default 6 inch 26 Cwt Howitzer & 8 inch How

Peter, the image(s) appear to be 6 inch 26 cwt BL Howitzers with their original horse-drawn carriage wheels, rather than 60-pdr BL guns. The profile of the canvas cover goes evenly to the end of the barrel, whereas the 60-pdr (not '60 lb') had a buffer and recuperator above the barrel which ended well short of the end of the barrel tube. This would appear as a step-down about 1/2 way along the canvas cover, which is not evident in the image. I doubt that it is a 6 inch 30 cwt Siege Howitzer, as the carriage trail is too long and the type was well out of service by the late 1930s, so am almost certain they are 6 inch 26 cwt BL Howitzers.

Grant: the NZ image purports to show a 60-pdr BL gun, but I doubt that because the buffer and recuperator visible above the short barrel appears to be the same length as the barrel tube, and the heavy wheel construction shows a wide width of wheel with a lattice of crossed spokes - both attributes are typical of the 8 inch BL Howitzer Marks 1 to 5 (not the Mark 6) and not the 60-pdr BL gun. Another case of an institution publishing an image with a dubious caption?

Mike

Last edited by Mike Cecil; 03-04-21 at 01:17. Reason: nomenclature detail added
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Old 03-04-21, 05:40
Peter Mossong Peter Mossong is offline
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Hi Mike. That confirms my suspicion that they were the 6 inch howitzers going by the length of the barrels. Now I'll have to order one of the Resicast 1:35th scale models to go with the new ICM Leyland Retriever kits I now have.



Resicast also do a 60-pdr but it appears to only come with the early WWI type wheels. The photo I have of our 60-pdr's shows they were also fitted with the strengthened wheels.

My thanks, Peter Mossong.
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  #5  
Old 06-04-21, 12:41
David Burr David Burr is offline
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Hi Peter,
Here are a couple more photos of Leylands towing the old artillery. It shows the two types (6 inch and the 60Pdr I believe).
NZ did their own unique pneumatic wheel conversion for the 60Pdr as seen in the attached photos
Attached Thumbnails
Leyland 1.jpg   Leyland Retrievers with tracks.jpg   Leyland Retriever a .jpg   60 Pdr A.jpg   60 Pdr c.jpg  

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  #6  
Old 07-04-21, 02:38
Mike Cecil Mike Cecil is online now
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Default Woods Carriage

Hi David,

Those fascinating images of the 60-pdr on carriages with pneumatic wheel assemblies appear to be a very heavy version of the complicated British Woods Carriage proposed for the 25-pdr in the mid-1930s. The wheel assemblies on each side pivoted forward/backward and locked into a radial position to provide for 360-degree quick-traverse of the carriage while in action, then were pivoted back to parallel on each side for towing. The British Army rejected the idea for the 25-pdr, but a small number were manufactured by Morris Motors for 18-pdrs and exported to Egypt, according to Gander (1983).

I've never seen this 'heavy duty' version before and wonder if these were manufactured in NZ or manufactured in the UK and imported? I suppose some diligent digging in the NZ archives might answer that question.

Mike
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