Dodge Power Wagon in military use (was: Dodge DD4-60)

[Tony Smith]

Originally posted by Lang
The thing I find interesting is the flat WW2 era nose instead of the "boofy" Power Wagon radiator.

The thing I find interesting is the way these threads can lay dormant on MLU for 2 or more years and suddenly flare up with a burst of new information, a bit like Malaria! (MLUria?)

I will have to re-visit the owner of this vehicle and see if it is now back in one piece. Suspicions are starting to cloud the horizon, though, as Hanno's table lists the DD4-60 as having a 160"wb. This truck is much shorter, maybe 126" like a PW or 134" like a DD4-35. What was the Ambulance and Carryall - 114"?

[cliff]

Originally posted by Tony Smith
I will have to re-visit the owner of this vehicle and see if it is now back in one piece. Suspicions are starting to cloud the horizon, though, as Hanno's table lists the DD4-60 as having a 160"wb. This truck is much shorter, maybe 126" like a PW or 134" like a DD4-35. What was the Ambulance and Carryall - 114"?

Tony if you look at the photo of the data plate you posted it is stamped DD60!

Just because a manuel states a certain wheelbase does not mean that it is correct for all vehicles of this type made. Orders for these by say the RAAF may have specified the shorter wheelbase chassis but with the same specs as the LWB DD60.

Just my 5 cents worth

Cheers
Cliff

[Lang]

Just looking through my Chrysler Serial Number Guide book up to 1946 and relating it to the engine serial numbers on Hanno's list above.

T-112 for WC 1/2 ton Sep 40 - Feb 42 AND Feb 45 - Oct 45
T-114 for WD-15 3/4 ton Sep 40 - Feb 42 AND Jan 46.......
T-116 for WD-20 & 21 1ton Sep 40 - Feb 42 AND Oct 45.......
T-118 for WF-20,21,22,30,31,32,33 and WFA-20,21,22,30,31,32,33 The 20's are 1 ton and the 30's are 1 1/2 ton All Sep 40 to May 42 then started again:
WF-31,32 & WFA-31 Apr 44 and WF-23,31.32,33 & WFA 32,33 all delivered Oct 45

These all are of course American production so I have no idea how Canadians fitted these particular engine serials to their production.

Lang

[Col Tigwell]

Tony are you aware that some power wagons were imported recently into West Australia from the middle east.

Saw one in local electricians shop a few week ago

Regards

Col

[gordon]

LWB DD60.

It certainly doesn't look like a long wheelbase truck.

In military designations the '60' was the load capacity in cwt, so a '60' was a 3 ton.

Civilian designations used the number to identify the wheelbase - not sure what '60' was though.


One question I'd like answered, the image right up top is the cab door hinge plate, but does the number on it actually match the number on the front left chassis rail? If it doesn't this could be a WW2 chassis with later cab, which might explain some things.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by cliff
Tony if you look at the photo of the data plate you posted it is stamped DD60!

Cliff, the picture I see clearly states DD4-60.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by cliff
Looking at the start serial numbers posted by Hanno the one Tony pictured is about 3300 down the list. In a way I feel this is a low production run and once again being all export may be why they have been missed in the past.

Cliff, taking a closer look at the serial numbers, the 1947 model list has a total of five models DD4-35, DD4-60, DD4-78, DD4-90 and DD4-200, all starting at serial 90,057,429. Like you said, these combined must mean low production runs for each separate type.

One can see the -35, -60 etc. stands for the wheelbase: 135, 160, 178, 190 and 200 inches respectively. Basically the same truck - 2-ton DD4 - built in 5 different wheelbase forms?

H.

[Tony Smith]

Originally posted by gordon
One question I'd like answered, the image right up top is the cab door hinge plate, but does the number on it actually match the number on the front left chassis rail? If it doesn't this could be a WW2 chassis with later cab, which might explain some things.

Can you explain that again? Are you saying the vehicle chassis number will also be stamped on the door hinges, or nearby? Is it near the top or lower hinge, and on the left or right doors?

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Tony Smith
Are there no references to Canadian post-war use?

See Mike Mckinley's postings - C-1-PW (1954) and, C-3-PW (1955), bone-stock Power Wagons.

The thing I find interesting is the way these threads can lay dormant on MLU for 2 or more years and suddenly flare up with a burst of new information, a bit like Malaria! (MLUria?)

Well, if you keep buggering us for info ...

Suspicions are starting to cloud the horizon, though, as Hanno's table lists the DD4-60 as having a 160"wb. This truck is much shorter, maybe 126" like a PW or 134" like a DD4-35. What was the Ambulance and Carryall - 114"?

The WC54 Ambulance has a 121" wheelbase, the WC53 Carryall 114".

Can you explain that again? Are you saying the vehicle chassis number will also be stamped on the door hinges, or nearby? Is it near the top or lower hinge, and on the left or right doors?

Tony, http://www.t137.com/registry/help/help.htm might be of help.

Tony, it would be great if you could go back and measure up the wheelbase and check if the number on the cab door hinge plate actually matches the number on the front left chassis rail like Gordon suggested. Otherwise it might turn out we are trying to determine a type of "bitsa" Lang longs for

H.

[Lang]

Looks like the vehicle is a made up one.

I have just found another manual - Canadian Truck Shop Manual 1941-42

DD4 is a 2 ton - max 13,000lbs. The 60 is the 160" wheelbase as explained above.

Lang

[Rich Payne]

Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra
Well, if you keep buggering us for info ...

Hanno,

I think that you mean "bugging" - "buggering" is something else altogether although we had better not go into that here because a couple of us got into hot water on that subject last time

Rich.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

A DD4-60 was offered at a clearance sale last January... (source).

[cliff]

Originally posted by Tony Smith
Can you explain that again? Are you saying the vehicle chassis number will also be stamped on the door hinges, or nearby? Is it near the top or lower hinge, and on the left or right doors?

Tony the plate photo you show is normally found on the cab door pillars and is not seen when the doors are shut.

Does the number on this plate match the chassis number that is normally stamped into the chassis rail at the front?

If they match then the truck is original. If they don't it is probably made up.

Hanno you are right I must have been tired when I posted those replies.

Cheers
Cliff

[gordon]

Originally posted by Tony Smith
Can you explain that again? Are you saying the vehicle chassis number will also be stamped on the door hinges, or nearby? Is it near the top or lower hinge, and on the left or right doors?

Nope, the plate shown above will normally be on the door hinge pillar post - I was wondering if it matched the chassis number actually STAMPED on the left from chassis rail - in case of cab swap or the like.

Gordon

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra
Out of 95,145 examples built, the US supplied 13,460 supplied to friendly nation's armies under the Military Defense Assistance Program. Another 41,304 were exported commercially, among which were quite sizeable numbers to the Dutch Army who used them in the former colonies. These trucks, along with many others, were acquired from commercial sources as there was a boycott on military materiel being supplied to the Dutch Army in the colonies. They were shipped as chassis/cowls and bodied locally - see Dodge Power Wagon in use with KNIL.

Here's a picture of a Fargo Power Wagon as used by the Israeli Defence Force, on display at the Batey ha-Osef Museum, Tel Aviv, Israel.

It is no doubt of civilian origin, most likely acquired at a time when it was difficult for them to buy military vehicles (just like the vehicles of the Netherlands East Indies Army shortly after WW2).

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Nuyt in the thread "Dodge Power Wagon in use with KNIL" on the Overvalwagen forum
French forces acquired the Power Wagon WM300 from the mid 1950s for use in the Sahara. This picture shows two trucks of the 2nd Sahara Combat Recce Squadron, one armed with a 57mm Recoilless rifle, the other with a .50. French Marines also had them. Total number of Power Wagons bought by French forces was 700. There were problems with the cooling and the truck was underpowered. Most were phased out in the 1960s when the West-African colonies became independent, though some remained on strenght with French troops in Tchad until 1975 (50 ans de vehicules militaires francais).

These look like M601 Power Wagons as supplied by the USA to friendly nation's armies under the Military Defense Assistance Program.

H.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Here are two pictures of Power Wagons of the IDF. Although open cabbed, they are not fitted with the M601 windscreen but with what looks like Dodge WC52 windscreens.

Most likely, these were supplied as chassis/cowls, with windscreens and rear bodies being fitted/manufactured locally.

Notice the similarity with the Dutch KNIL Power Wagon?


Both armies clearly had a need for a replacement of the WC52 Weapon Carrier, and the Power Wagon with a rear body made to suit was clearly up to the job.

H.

[T. Metsovitis]

The Greek army used the M601 which it received through MAP. Some acquired cabs or even full length bodies and were used as personell carriers like these:




The Hellenic Air Force used the closed cab chassis as a bomb truck:






One of these has been preserved at the Air Force Museum at Tatoi near Athens.

The Hellenic Navy also had the ambulance version.

Fyll

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Thanks Fyll, excellent pics!

H.

[Lang]

Just found another Dodge near Brisbane. Appears to be civilian and is claimed as 1946 model by owner.

DD4-35 is the short 135" wheelbase with 700X20 tyres (could have been 7.50X20 originally)

Has a Dodge Canada ID plate but appears to have a Richards cab with quarter windows and park lights on the side cowls in front of the door. No Richards badge but could have been removed.

Engine is T118G

Only has a single speed diff.

Lang

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra
Here is what probably is one of a few bought by the US military for testing & evaluation (because many pictures in Crismon's books come from test facility files). It has even been assigned a registration number, U.S.A. 2362633.

I was surprised to find an actual survivor, USA 2448703. Judging by the difference between these two known registration numbers, there could have been more of these ordered by the US Army than is commonly known. One Powerwagon Forum member has seen four of these trucks with military markings, all of which have the hooks down the side of the bed (source).

H.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

What also turned up is a listing of a "Truck, Pickup, 1-ton, 4x4, w/winch (Dodge, Model B2PW126, 1950)" in a US Army(?) publication (source).

[mike mckinley]

the attached pic comes from ord 3 snl g-1 major items and major combinations of group g, april 1954, courtesy of alex blair.

mike

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by mike mckinley
the attached pic comes from ord 3 snl g-1 major items and major combinations of group g, april 1954, courtesy of alex blair.

Thanks Mike & Alex!

That Carryall reminded me of a similar 1953 Navy B-3-PW-126 Ambulance (source).

H.

[mike mckinley]

hi hanno

i'v come to the realization that there is no end to the variations associated with dodge trucks. just when you think you have seen a pic of every model, up pops another, and the information chase begins all over again.....one of the things that makes the hobby so interesting!!
mike

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by mike mckinley
and the information chase begins all over again.....one of the things that makes the hobby so interesting!!

Same here, Mike!

Below follows a picture of yet another survivor, in this case a '49 truck with reg.no. USA 2443691 (source).

H.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Looks like another military Power Wagon under that yellow paint, in this case one with a telephone construction and maintenance body (source).

H.

[T. Metsovitis]

Hi all

Here is one in Royal Canadian Air Force service is 1958.



The pic was found here: http://www.grostenquin.org/ . There are many more vehicle photos on the site but one really has to dig for them...

Fyll

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by T. Metsovitis
The pic was found here: http://www.grostenquin.org/ . There are many more vehicle photos on the site but one really has to dig for them...

Fyll, thanks for the pic! (pity that site is so hard to browse).

H.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

One of 58 F1PW Fargo Power Wagons bought by the Swedish Army in the late 1940s . . . left standing in the woods for thirty years . . . and dragged out recently for restoration (source)