Hamilton's own Armoured Car

[Jordan Baker]

Hi everyone.

I just got the book "Hamilton at War, On the Home Front" by Margaret Houghton the other day for my birthday. One of the capters was on an armoured car that Hamilton's Home defense Force had had made for the defense of Hamilton.

The first was delivered on Aug 24, 1940. It states that a "heavy truck chassis from International Harvester was armoured from stern to stern with welded armour plate provided by a local steel mill and assembeld by Hamilton Bridge Company to a completely original design." The chapter goes on that the armoured car "was entierly Hamilton made with the exception of the revolving machine gun turret which had to be built in Toronto. A 45 caliber Thompson sub machine gun was installed in the turret."

There was also radio equipment installed to receive calls from police headquarters.

Its other attributes were that it weighed 5 tons and coudl reach 60 mph. (Id love to see it stop in a hurry at those speeds)

The funny part was that it was planned to house it at the Central Police station. However it turned out to big to fit the door and they had to relocate it to an east end fire station.

Unfourtunaltey when the Hamilton Home guard stood down in 1945 its fate was uncertain. Both the fire and jail commitee want to dismantle it to use the chassis for a service truck. This resulted in a big argument over it as the Hamilton Auxiliary Defense Corps said it belonged to them and not the Fire and Jail commitees and that the City had little jurisdiction over it. However it had been licensed under the city because the Hamilton Auxiliary Defense Corps was not incorporated. Its fate is not exactly known as there was no sign of it in the Hamilton Police Department's annual report for 1945.

The text above and the photos below were paraphraised from the book.

I ahve also found a bunch of Spectator articles on the internet anout the armoured car. I will try to post copies of them over the next few days.

Does anyone have any suggestions as to what kind of chassis would have been used? Also what kind of engine. I have tried finding more photos but no luck. I will try and get in touch with the author to find out if she has any more ideas.

[Jordan Baker]

Here is a close up of the truck from the previous photo.

[nuyt]

would love to see more info and pictures on this truck.
Was the lower turret fixed or revolving?
The basic layout of the hull, including raised driver and commander or co-driver position, is similar to the early type South African "Marmon-Herrington" armoured reconaissance cars.
The Hamilton was of course 4x2 as it used an International chassis, probably a D-line, the heaviest of which was the D50 (also sold in Canada) tractor unit with dual rear wheels. 1940 saw the advent of the restyled K-line trucks...

Kind regards,
Nuyt

[servicepub (RIP)]

Originally posted by ericnuyt
would love to see more info and pictures on this truck.

Ask and you shall receive.

[Jordan Baker]

Great photo. Anymore?

That thing sure was a beast of an armoured car wasn't it.

[nuyt]

great picture!
Yep, double rear wheels...

Kind regards,
Nuyt

[Alex Blair (RIP)]

Originally posted by Jordan Baker
Great photo. Anymore?

That thing sure was a beast of an armoured car wasn't it.

Hi Jordan...The last civilian vehicles made in Hamilton were the KB series trucks..in 1941...(I hade one.a KB 2,1941)..I bought it from the original owner who took the train from Prince Albert Sask.and picked it up at the factory and drove it home.
He told me those were the last ones there and the were building "Tanks" when he was there to get his truck...they may have been building half tracks ,that would look like a tank to a Saskatchawan farm boy..
Anyway the wheels are the same as used on the KB and COE 4&5 International..I can't see the rear wheels but they were also spoked..
THis is out of the KB manuals..
Front wheel...

[Roger Lucy]

According to John Wallace in his book "Dragoms of Steel" page 131 it eventually ended up at Borden. I would imagine the statement "armoured from stern to stern with welded armour plate provided by a local steel mill" is an exaggeration. The plating would almost certainly be of mild steel as armour plate production in Canada did not get going until the fall of 1940 and was not being produced in anything like sufficinet quantity even in July 1941 (see Clive Law's book Making Tracks, page 11.

While we are on the subject of one-off Canadian armoured cars, in the fall of 1940 the Dept of Munitions and Supply commissioned two "Wheeled Tanks" using Ford chassis and bodies made by Hamilton Bridge.

One was on a 4x4 Ford rear engined 101 inch wheelbase chassis. It had a slope sided mild steel body and a two man turret similar to that of a British cruiser tank, with a Browning .30 calibre machine gun and a dummy 2-pounder. It weighed 6.6 tonnes and was powered by a Ford V8. It had two floating wheels on stub axles so sometine sis referred to as a 6 wheeler. It was tested at Borden in early 1941. The front axle and suspension turned out to be very fragile. DM&S wanted to make some improved versions but DND overruled them and opted for a Humber type body on a GM chassis - the future Fox.

DM&S also built a pilot Ford 8x8. It weighed 32,000 lbs needed three Mercury engines to power it and was fitted with a Ram I turret. When tested in llate 1941 the steering and suspension proved unsatisfactory and needed a complete redesign. Ford planned to replace its three V8 engines with a Continental engine, and it would seem a Ram II turret with a 6-pdr was planned. In April 1942 DND estimated it was 18 months away from production, and was quite happy to cancel the project when the British Tank Purchasing Commission ordered the T18E2 Boarhound. At the same time the Fox, Lynx and Otter received their names in early 1942, the 8x8 was christened the Wolf I.

I would be most interested if anyone has any pictures, drawings or more detailed specs of the Wolf. Here is a picture of the 4x4 "Wheeled Tank"
Roger Lucy

[Jordan Baker]

This was in todays Hamilton Spectator.

http://www.thespec.com/News/Local/article/237306

August 22, 2007
Paul Legall
The Hamilton Spectator
(Aug 22, 2007)
It was built of plate steel and paranoia and designed to crush any domestic group from commies to fascists who might try to undermine the war effort.

The Hamilton-built vehicle was a forerunner of today's light-armoured vehicle (LAV) and was trotted out with great fanfare during a public rally at the old Hamilton Civic Stadium in the fall of 1940.

It wasn't just an armoured car. It was also a symbol of the xenophobic attitude of many in this city to immigrants and anyone else who posed a perceived threat to the wartime status quo.

Mounted on a standard truck chassis with rubber tires, it was riveted together with boiler-gauge steel and had several gun slots in the hull as well as a turret on top.

By today's high-tech military standard, it was almost like a Tonka toy on steroids. But in 1940, it was the only vehicle of its kind in Canada and the pride and joy of a group of volunteer soldiers called the Hamilton Auxiliary Defence Corps or Home Guard.

A raft of old documents, including minutes of defence corps meetings, that have recently surfaced reveal a telling story about attitudes of the time.

Consisting mostly of veterans of the Great War, the founders of the auxiliary were obsessed with rooting out disloyal citizens whom they described as "enemy aliens" or "fifth columnists."

They feared non-British immigrants would side with the Axis powers and commit acts of sabotage in Hamilton. During the war, the auxiliary co-operated with the RCMP in drawing up lists of suspected Italian fascists, many of whom were interned in camps without due process.

After the unveiling ceremony, the vehicle was kept under 24-hour guard in a fire station on Sanford Avenue. It disappeared after the war and its fate remains a mystery.

As the war progressed, the ranks of the volunteer corps swelled to the thousands. The guardsmen identified themselves with arm bands and berets and were issued a variety of weapons, including 800 shotguns and six gangster-style Tommy guns like the ones used in the Valentine's Day Massacre.

Hamilton police Sergeant Gary Ostofi, who is also a Navy Captain and president of the Royal Hamilton Military Institute, recently discovered a stack of musty old documents that have cast new light on the history of the auxiliary corps.

The materials, which will be turned over to the archives at the Hamilton Public Library, reveal an almost pathological paranoia of immigrants and suspected dissidents.

In the minutes, the auxiliary leaders suggested pre-emptive measures to lessen the threat of a domestic uprising. They were confident there were no longer any weapons in "the hands of local enemy aliens," after a five-year police roundup of guns.

But the guardsmen were concerned they still owned cars that could be used to form a flying hit squad. As a preventive measure, they suggested their licence plates be revoked and that no foreigners be granted citizenship until the end of the war.

They also expressed concern that alien enemies were running in the municipal elections and recommended taking out newspaper ads to denounce them.

J.F. Cauley urged his colleagues to prevent persons linked with "organizations disloyal to the Empire ... from getting a foothold in municipal candidates."

"This organization is unalterably opposed to the election to city council, or any of the elective body, any person who has been at any time connected with any Nazi, Fascist or Communist party," Cauley stated in a motion.

Members of the auxiliary also discussed how they could arm themselves and got weekly reports on the construction of the armoured car, which was a joint project involving the Hamilton Bridge Company, Dominion Foundries and Turnbull Elevator.

On Aug. 26, 1940, the armoured car committee reported the prototype, which was to be the first of three vehicles, had passed all the tests with "flying colours", including withstanding machine-gun fire at point blank range. It would soon be in the hands of the home guard and ready for action.

To forestall any suggestions they were building a private army, the auxiliary corps members had Hamilton city hall pick up the $9,000 bill for the armoured car. The other cars were never built.

A police officer for more than 40 years, Ostofi has no idea what happened to the vehicle after the war.

By the time he joined the officers' club in the 1970s, all the old veterans who'd promoted the project were gone.

But the Tommy guns did surface again at the old Hamilton police station in the 1970s. Now considered antiques, the machine guns were sold back to the American company that built them and the proceeds were used to buy assault rifles for the newly formed police tactical team.

"It was a different time, I guess," Ostofi mused when asked about the attitudes of the day. "We were at war. It was a little different than today when we debate whether we should be in Afghanistan.

"There was no debate in this. You were either for us or against us."

plegall@thespec.com

905-526-3385

[Jordan Baker]

Just bringing this back to the forfront to see if anyone has found any more info on Hamilton's Armoured Car.

Im very interested in more photos, especially those showing the back/rear side.

[maple_leaf_eh]

Originally Posted by Jordan Baker

The Hamilton Spectator (Aug 22, 2007)

It was built of plate steel and paranoia and designed to crush any domestic group from commies to fascists who might try to undermine the war effort.
....
"It was a different time, I guess," Ostofi mused when asked about the attitudes of the day. "We were at war. It was a little different than today when we debate whether we should be in Afghanistan.

"There was no debate in this. You were either for us or against us."

Ah yes, we know so much more about history these days! Next thing the Hamilton Spectator will write that the Indians (er, Amerindians or First Nations) weren't willing participants in trade wars, beaver trapping and wife-supply to the Hudson's Bay Company.

[Jordan Baker]

Found some more pictures.

http://henleyshamilton1.wordpress.co...corps-1940-41/

[8Hussar]

Just curious if anything more, including photos, has surfaced about the armoured car. Fascinating story. Would be very interested in seeing any further photographs of this beast.
Cheers!
Don Allen

[Jordan Baker]

I just spent couple of hours at the Hamilton Public library special collections branch and found a few more. Once I get home I'll post them up. Sadly I think they will be it other then what people have in their own private albums.

My dream is to eventually build a full size replica. Slowly it's becoming a reality.

[Jordan Baker]

Here are the rest of the pictures I was able to find. Photo credits to Hamilton Public Library.

[Jordan Baker]

The last batch. Photo credits to Hamilton Public Library.

[Jordan Baker]

Spent the last few nights playing around with Google SkecthUp. Ive just been using some of the photos and basically drawing over top of them in 3D.

[servicepub (RIP)]

Some people have too much time on their hands.

[Hans Mulder]

Only the writer of the article...He's probably the type they wanted locked up, and with good reason!

[Jordan Baker]

Well some more information has come to light on this project. I got in touch with the Hamilton Police Sgt who was quoted in the Hamilton Spectator article from 2007. Luckily we work out of the same station so I was able to meet up with him today and he handed me a shopping bag full of original paperwork. The paperwork includes minutes from the Hamilton Civil Guard meetings and Hamilton Officers clubs. But the best find so far has been what can best be described as the original bill of sale for the armoured car. Interestingly enough even in wartime it was business as usual. Nothing free/donated for the cause. It seems there were a few company's involved in making this car. International Harvester sold the chassis and drive systems. Dominion Foundries and Steel supplied the armour plate. Hamilton Bridge Company is the one who actually designed and built it. However the one that has somewhat stumped me is the involvement of Turnbull Elevator Company Limited of Toronto. They supplied what is called a "Rypa" for the sum of $877. Originally it was an order for 3 "rypa's" but this was changed to only one. I had heard reference to an outside of Hamilton company being contracted to supply one of the turrets. Would this be it?

What I did find really interesting was the actual price of the truck. A grand total of $6527.32 Considering that Universal Carriers cost approximately $3000 to build this was one expensive truck. That probably explains why the other two were cancelled. I guess with that much research and development the initial cost were very high.

Enjoy the documents. As I get more scanned over the next few days as time allows they will be posted.

[Mike Cecil]

RYPA = Rolling Yawing Pitching Assembly. In simple terms, a 'turret trainer' for vehicle turret crews that simulates the movement of the vehicle cross country while they shoot at targets. Not part of the vehicle is represents. Can be either static (usual method) or on a short track. Target can be either static or mobile on a short track.

Mike C

[maple_leaf_eh]

Originally Posted by Mike Cecil

RYPA = Rolling Yawing Pitching Assembly. In simple terms, a 'turret trainer' for vehicle turret crews that simulates the movement of the vehicle cross country while they shoot at targets. Not part of the vehicle is represents. Can be either static (usual method) or on a short track. Target can be either static or mobile on a short track.

Mike C

Correct. In early WWII when the need to identify and train large numbers of aircrew became apparent, a number of training devices emerged. One was the Link Trainer that had a little compartment that rolled, pitched, yawed and azimuthed (?) to the enclosed pilot's commands.

My father once wanted to build one using plans from a late 1940's Popular Science magazine. ("Hey kids! Want to have fun and learn a new career? ...) The idea was two frames connected by an automobile transmission universal fitting of some sort and controlled by a joystick and pedals. It never got built, and I think some of the parts are still in his garage.

During wartime any industry with precision machine tools was given contracts to the limit of their complexity. Turnbull Elevators would therefore have been able to make high tolerance but small production run parts.

@Jordan - this looks like a pamphlet or publication to capture those primary documents. Never mind if the story is thin, sometimes that is all you will get.

[Jordan Baker]

I started scanning the minutes of the Hamilton Auxiliary Defense force last night. I'll post up the relevant ones once I get them done. Briefly it does mention the truck was sent to Camp Borden for testing in August of 1940. The other interesting item in the minutes was that a scale model had been made and was sent to Ottawa along with some documents on it. I wonder what ever happened to them? Would it be stored away in he archives or war museum?

Interesting about what the Rypa was. Makes perfect sense that an elevator company would be contracted for making something like that. The elevator control boxes they where making then wouldn't have been all the different.

[charlie fitton]

I agree....Jordan does have the makings of a booklet/ book here...

[servicepub (RIP)]

Originally Posted by charlie fitton

I agree....Jordan does have the makings of a booklet/ book here...

Hmmm... I took a loss in publishing the 1935 Armoured Car in Cdn Svce and there were TWO of those. I wonder if I would double my loss by publishing a book on a single vehicle?

C

[Michael R.]

A stable shooting platform? At least the Thompson would be more flexible than the aircraft Vickers of a few years earlier shown here training at Camp Borden ranges, Ontario, Canada. Not to get off topic ...

Commenting on the Thompson gun at $353.00 each, as compared with the shotgun at $8.32 each.

[Jordan Baker]

Michael. Your picture makes me wonder if the "rypa" wasn't a training device but was more for a gun platform in the turret. I had been told by the lady at special collections for the library that the turret or part of it had to be ordered from a company in Toronto. When looking at the pictures that small turret appears to be a different construction then the rest of the vehicle.

I'm just tossing ideas out to everyone here trying to figure this vehicle out.

[Michael R.]

Used for training zipper heads who were assigned to the Renault tanks at Borden. The article appears in the January, 1941 edition of Popular Science, pages 76-80.

[maple_leaf_eh]

@Michael - yes, I remember that picture from period publications. Unfortunately , it is the range but not the actual device.

Added URL for the picture above. http://books.google.ca/books?id=NicD...page&q&f=false

[servicepub (RIP)]

Originally Posted by maple_leaf_eh

@Michael - yes, I remember that picture from period publications. Unfortunately , it is the range but not the actual device.

The device is in the lower left.