1st Canadian Air Support Signals Unit

[Carruthers]

Does anyone have info about this unit? There seems to be no info available on them. They used Chev 15 cwt trucks with signals body and No9 sets made by RCA. They operated with 2nd Army through Holland and up into the Baltic 44-45. There were two units in 2nd Army: 1st Canadian and 2nd British ASSU. My Dad was in the later. Brits used Morris C4 W/T 15 cwt. Dirk Leegwater has a Chev of the same type but info on the actual unit is sketchy. Royal Signals museum have NO info!

Any info appreciated.
Simon

[Noel Burgess]

The Trux website has a section on British ASSU here - note this is for the british unit(s) but Canadian will no doubt be very similar. Also look at the page on 2nd Tactical Air Force -click on "21 Army Group", then on "Army" then you will see 2TAF in the list that drops down. Also Note that the Trux website will shortly be reorganised in a different structure.
Noel

[Mark W. Tonner]

Originally Posted by Carruthers

Does anyone have info about this unit? There seems to be no info available on them. They used Chev 15 cwt trucks with signals body and No9 sets made by RCA. They operated with 2nd Army through Holland and up into the Baltic 44-45. There were two units in 2nd Army: 1st Canadian and 2nd British ASSU. My Dad was in the later. Brits used Morris C4 W/T 15 cwt. Dirk Leegwater has a Chev of the same type but info on the actual unit is sketchy. Royal Signals museum have NO info!

Any info appreciated.
Simon

Hi Simon;

1st Canadian Air Support Signal Unit:

Serial 476 - First Canadian Air Support Control Signal Section, R.C.C.S. - was authorized under General Order Number 71 of 1942 - effective 24 December 1941 - Converted & Redesignated: Serial No. 476 - First Canadian Air Support Signal Unit, R.C. Sigs under General Order Number 216 of 1944 - effective 14 January 1944

Serial 476 - First Canadian Air Support Signal Unit, R.C. Sigs was redesignated: Serial No. 476 - 1st Canadian Air Support Signal Unit, R.C. Sigs under General Order Number 335 of 1944 - effective 15 June 1944

Serial 476 - 1st Canadian Air Support Signal Unit, R.C. Sigs was disbanded under General Order Number 321 of 1945 - effective 26 June 1945

Brief description of the duties/employment of 1st Canadian Air Support Signal Unit:

1st Canadian Air Support Signal Unit came under the GSO Air of the General Staff Branch Headquarters, First Canadian Army, for direction and employment.

1st Canadian Air Support Signal Unit was developed as an independent signals network designed to pass messages relating to air action exclusively, without interference from other traffic.

1st Canadian Air Support Signal Unit had a Headquarters Section at Headquarters First Canadian Army and a number of mobile wireless sets which were deployed as tentacles to Corps, Division and Brigade Headquarters, and sometimes to units. They also served as rear links for Air Liaison Sections.

1st Canadian Air Support Signal Unit provided Headquarters First Canadian Army with the following:

- regular reports of the position of forward troops
- requests for support and air reconnaissance
- other information likely to affect air action

The ASSU also relayed reconnaissance information to the units they operated with and the ASSU also allowed the Corps Commander to monitor requests from subordinate units for air support.

The ASSU Section at Headquarters First Canadian Army received requests for air support and advised on whether they were approved or not. It also passed situation reports and relevant information to wings and reported the results of sorties to requesting formations.

Hope this helps.

Cheers

[Carruthers]

This is great stuff!!
Noel, thanks very much for the Trux site info. I didn't know anything about it and it's very thorough. It was actually the Brit info i was after, but it seemed better to ask about Canadian info on MLU, and go from there!
Interesting that the list spectify the radio ia 12 set but I know for sure dad used 9 sets for the high power etc. I have photos from Normandy of him with them etc, so I know it's correct.

Mark, Thanks also for this info which helps me to figure out the Brit connection. I don't suppose you ahev the same info for 2nd British ASSU????

thanks again lads

Simon

[Noel Burgess]

Simon
As you may have worked out if you have browsed arround the Trux site, What is shown is the theoretical organisation based on War Establishment documents. Actual practice often differed (e.g. as more or better vehicles/equipment became available).
You have some clear evidence of this - you may like to let Mike, the site owner, aware of this and he may put in a note to this effect.
Please post some of your photos here - I'm sure we would all be interested.
Noel

[Carruthers]

HI,
Yes I guessed as much, and I will have a look at 12 set specs. It could be something that dad's specific truck had for some purpose, but it seems unlikely. I'll contact Mike and see what he thinks. Really good site I thought.

I'll see about the pix. I was holding back from adding them to any site as I was trying to write ana rticle about 2 ASSU and have the pix unpublished, but what the hell!!
cheers
Simon

[Mark W. Tonner]

Originally Posted by Carruthers

... It was actually the Brit info i was after, but it seemed better to ask about Canadian info on MLU, and go from there!

WW2 Military History & Equipment
This forum is for the discussion of any WW2-related military topics not specifically falling into any of the categories above. Land, Sea and Air, history, weapons and equipment.

Simon;

Above is the description of topics that fall within the 'WW2 Military History & Equipment' forum, as it appears on the index page of the MLU Forum. As you can see by the description of what the 'WW2 Military History & Equipment' forum relates to, you could have entitled your thread '2nd British Air Support Signals Unit' and still used the lead question you asked of: "Does anyone have info about this unit?", instead of the misleading thread title of '1st Canadian Air Support Signals Unit' with the lead question requesting information on this unit, which upon being answered, you turn around and reply that in fact you did not want information on 1 Cdn ASSU in the first place, but on 2 Brit ASSU ... don't get me wrong, I do not mind answering questions, I just hate to waste my time ...

[Carruthers]

Sorry about that Mark. Here's the deal: I could find no info on the Brit unit. I have letters written by my dad about operating with the Canadians right through from D-Day to VE day and the two are linked. So if I can find out about the Canadian element too, which I need to know as well I (i was just working on the Brit part first) then I can see the whole picture. I feared there would be as little info on them too.

I fully understand that your time must be precious. I have been a published writer since 1992 and edited two international model magazines for nearly 10 years. Knocked out a couple of books on the subject too. I have had numerous occasions where I was asked for info which was on the periphery of the subject, so i understand where you're coming from. Apologes for wasting your time and thanks again for your help.

[Mark W. Tonner]

Simon;

Originally Posted by Noel Burgess

As you may have worked out if you have browsed around the Trux site, What is shown is the theoretical organisation based on War Establishment documents. Actual practice often differed (e.g. as more or better vehicles/equipment became available).

The Trux site states that War Establishment for an Air Support Signals Unit (in this case for 2 ASSU) was W.E. III/285/1, the theoretical organisation of which is posted on their site. As Noel as pointed out: "Actual practice often differed (e.g. as more or better vehicles/equipment became available)."

To give you an example of how a 'theoretical organisation' of a War Establishment, or the War Establishment itself could change/be changed, as more or better vehicles/equipment became available, or procedures were improved on, below are the Canadian War Establishments that were issued starting with the authorization of:

Serial 476 - First Canadian Air Support Control Signal Section, R.C.C.S. - effective 24 December 1941 - for which ‘A Canadian Air Support Control Signals’ - Cdn. III/1940/226/1 - effective 1 December 1941 was issued. This was followed by the issue of ‘A Canadian Air Support Control Signals’ - Cdn. III/1940/226/1 - Amendment No. 1 - effective 1 June 1942.

With the conversion and redesignation of Serial 476 - First Canadian Air Support Control Signal Section, R.C.C.S. to that of Serial 476 - First Canadian Air Support Signal Unit, R.C. Sigs - effective 14 January 1944 (and subsequent redesignation to that of 1st Canadian Air Support Signal Unit, R.C. Sigs - effective 15 June 1944) - ‘An Air Support Signal Unit, R.C.C.S.’ - Cdn. III/285/1 - effective 11 January 1944 was issued. This was followed by the issue of:

- ‘An Air Support Signal Unit, R.C.C.S.’ - Cdn. III/285/1 - Amendment No. 2 - effective 8 April 1944
- ‘An Air Support Signal Unit, R.C.C.S.’ - Cdn. III/285/1 - Amendment No. 8 - effective 15 May 1944
- ‘An Air Support Signal Unit, R.C.C.S.’ - Cdn. III/285/1 - Amendment No. 9 - effective 15 June 1944
- ‘An Air Support Signal Unit, R.C.C.S.’ - Cdn. III/285/1 - Amendment No. 10 - effective 5 July 1944
- ‘An Air Support Signal Unit, R.C.C.S.’ - Cdn. III/285/1 - Amendment No. 11 - effective 19 October 1944
- ‘An Air Support Signal Unit, R.C.C.S.’ - Cdn. III/285/1 - Amendment No. 12 - effective 3 November 1944
- ‘An Air Support Signal Unit, R.C.C.S.’ - Cdn. III/285/1 - Amendment No. 13 - effective 11 January 1944

Effective 10 January 1945 - ‘An Air Support Signal Unit, R.C.C.S.’ - Cdn. III/285/2 to supercede Cdn. III/285/1 was issued. This was followed by the issue of:

- ‘An Air Support Signal Unit, R.C.C.S.’ - Cdn. III/285/2 - Amendment No. 1 - effective 10 January 1945
- ‘An Air Support Signal Unit, R.C.C.S.’ - Cdn. III/285/2 - Amendment No. 2 - effective 18 April 1945
- ‘An Air Support Signal Unit, R.C.C.S.’ - Cdn. III/285/2 - Amendment No. 3 - effective 11 June 1945

As you can see from the above, the War Establishment of ‘An Air Support Signal Unit’ (in this insist that of 1 Cdn ASSU) was constantly changing as the war went on.

In regards to your:

Originally Posted by Carruthers

I don't suppose you have the same info for 2nd British ASSU????

No, I’m sorry I do not have that information at hand, but I would imagine that the employment of 2 ASSU within the Second British Army would be the same as for that of 1 Cdn ASSU within First Canadian Army, as I pointed out under "Brief description of the duties/employment ...” in my earlier post. I can however, point you to these files held at The National Archives, Kew:

- 'Report on the employment of the Army Air Support Signal Unit (21 Army Group)' - WO 244/91
- 'Army air support: signal units, organisation of personnel and equipment' - WO 205/555
- 'Standing orders for Air Support Signal Unit operation: hints on weather observation and reports' - WO 205/562

which should provide some information on 2 ASSU and on a related note, a copy of the War Diaries for 1 Cdn ASSU are held at The National Archives, Kew:

War Diary of 1 Cdn ASSU - Feb to Dec 1944 - WO 179/3224
War Diary of 1 Cdn ASSU - Jan to Jun 1945 - WO 179/4731

I hope this may be of some help to you.

Cheers

[Mark W. Tonner]

Originally Posted by Carruthers

... I have letters written by my dad about operating with the Canadians right through from D-Day to VE day ...

Simon;

I’m not surprised by that, seeing as how during the course of operations in North West Europe, there was a consent interchange of formations from one army to another within 21st Army Group to meet the demands of the situation on the ground throughout the campaign.

When British formations served under command of First Canadian Army, in North West Europe, the ‘tentacles’ from an Air Support Signal Unit would have been those supplied by 1 Cdn ASSU, in conjunction with the ‘Air Support’ coming from No. 84 Composite Group of 2nd Tactical Air Force (which supported First Canadian Army), while Canadian formations serving under command of Second British Army, would have had ‘tentacles’ from 2 ASSU, in conjunction with the ‘Air Support’ coming from No. 83 Composite Group of 2nd Tactical Air Force (which supported Second British Army), in support of them.

Cheers