Chevrolet 1311X3 15-cwt 4x2 GS truck

[cliff]

Indian Army Vehicle ID Please (original thread caption)

I found this photo while searching the Pictures Australia Website. Can any one ID the Indian Army vehicles please?

It is captioned "Indian troops in Malaya during World War II".

sorry I forgot to get a negative number or note which archive it came from.

[Bill Murray]

Cliff:

Looks to me like a Truck 15 CWT 4X2 GS (Indian) Chevrolet 1311X3.

[cliff]

Originally posted by Bill Murray
Cliff:

Looks to me like a Truck 15 CWT 4X2 GS (Indian)
Chevrolet 1311X3.

Bill I was thinking Chev as well. 1938?

[Bill Murray]

Based on the side lights on the front wings, I would lean towards 1940.
Bill

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Side view

AWM Negative Number: 045230. Caption: TROOP CARRIER, 15 CWT LORRY, CHEVROLET, 113 1/2 INCH WHEELBASE. INDIAN ARMY VERSION. LEFT REAR VIEW, REAR CANOPY NOT FITTED.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

AWM Negative Number: 045230. Caption: TROOP CARRIER, 15 CWT LORRY, CHEVROLET, 113 1/2 INCH WHEELBASE. INDIAN ARMY VERSION. LEFT REAR VIEW, REAR CANOPY NOT FITTED.

Here's a picture of a Chevrolet 1311X3 as captured by the German Afrika Korps.

91331298_2993582564021068_3049092227977445376_n.jpg

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

AWM Negative Number: 045230. Caption: TROOP CARRIER, 15 CWT LORRY, CHEVROLET, 113 1/2 INCH WHEELBASE. INDIAN ARMY VERSION. LEFT REAR VIEW, REAR CANOPY NOT FITTED.

Looked up those AWM pics again and found another picture of a new 3/4 front view. Judiging by the running lights on the front fender, I'd say it is a 1940 Model KC:


"Front view of an Indian Army version Chevrolet 15 cwt lorry (troop carrier) with 113.5 inch wheelbase with rear canopy."
3868164.JPG
Source: https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/C46238


"AUSTRALIA. LORRIES, 15 CWT. INDIAN ARMY TYPE TROOP CARRIER 113 W.B. CHEVROLET. LEFT SIDE VIEW."
3994709.JPG
Source: https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/C207879


"Left rear view of an Indian Army version Chevrolet 15 cwt lorry (troop carrier) with 113.5 inch wheelbase. The rear canopy is not fitted."
3902734.JPG
Source: https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/C46237

[Mike Kelly]

Yes 1940 side lights but a 39 grill .

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Mike Kelly

Yes 1940 side lights but a 39 grill .

Can you educate me about the differences between the '39 and the '40 grill? I'm learning while doing here, thanks.

[Mike Kelly]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

Can you educate me about the differences between the '39 and the '40 grill? I'm learning while doing here, thanks.

The 40 model grill has less bars in the grill because of a wider trim piece on top , The 39 is basically all bars right up to the top .

[cliff]

Thanks Hanno... if I check my own files occassionly I may find the answer quicker

[nuyt]

Both 1939 and 1940 models were used, see Vanderveen.
Note the small desert style windscreens!

[Rich Payne]

I've been nosing around the British Pathé archive again. Is this a similar vehicle ?

http://img260.imageshack.us/my.php?i...9670445ri4.jpg / http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/4...0445ri4.th.jpg

http://img260.imageshack.us/my.php?i...9670444pk3.jpg / http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/9...0444pk3.th.jpg

http://img260.imageshack.us/my.php?i...9670446dw9.jpg / http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/9...0446dw9.th.jpg

This is what actually caught my attention

http://img260.imageshack.us/my.php?i...8indianuw1.jpg / http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/1...dianuw1.th.jpg

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

I go with 1940 Model 3/4 ton chassis, assembled by GM India Ltd in Bombay.

[Bill Murray]

Rich:
Yes, essentially the same vehicle.

David:
3/4 ton being the same as 15 CWT?? I always forget.
Bill

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

112 lb = one hundredweight or one bag of cement, or cwt...I know!!!

so:

10 cwt = 1/2 ton

15 cwt = 3/4 ton

20 cwt = one ton

A '40 3/4 tonner would be a KD model. These were all sourced from Bloomfield CKD Boxing Plant or possibly Tarrytown, New York being 1940.

[nuyt]

While searching for an Indian Ford I found these two vehicles that intrigued me. First a Chevy I have never seen before:
indianfunnychev.jpg


then a FAT, presumably also Indian (the stills are from a Pathe film showing Indian troops in Persia in 1941), but the cowl looks different or is it just the angle?
indianfatpersia.jpg


artillery tractor 1938
indianartytractor1938.jpg

[Don Birnie]

Nuyt
The Indian FAT is a Karrier KT 4 4X4 built and equipped at Acton for the India Stores Department.
It is all welded steel and the winch was vertical.

Don

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Don Birnie

The Indian FAT is a Karrier KT 4 4X4 built and equipped at Acton for the India Stores Department.
It is all welded steel and the winch was vertical.

See http://miliblog.co.uk/?cat=48&nggpage=6 for a good picture of the Karrier KT-4 FAT: http://miliblog.co.uk/wp-content/gal...un-tractor.jpg

karrier-kt4-gun-tractor.jpg

[nuyt]

Thanks Don, the Karrier, forgot all about it

[nuyt]

Karrier in Persia
indiankarrierfatbp.jpg


and a light truck, Chevie?
indianpickupbp.jpg

[nuyt]

I think the mysterious Chevrolet on hte bridge above may be an Indian version of the Australian water truck? Just guessing....

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Bob Carriere

...from Hanno...

NOT a "pure" LRDG but still very interesting.

Although an Indian pattern with wooden bench seats it does depict a special purpose truck for wide open country....

Some observations...

Flat cowl 1938 or 39 Chev truck probably a 3/4 ton model.....

Nice areo wind screens.
No modification done to the front fenders.
Interesting 6 nut wheels with an additional (x)series of nuts to hold the two part rim together.
Wheel/tires look like they may be 13 inches...?
No visible water expansion tank.
Right Hand Drive.
Cargo box looks very similar construction to the truck on display in the London museum....also looks like wood boards on the box sides....

Here's another pic of one of those 15-cwt Chevrolets with Indian Pattern wooden body. It accompanies two 1533X2 30-cwt trucks, so it seems these were used by the LRDG. "Pure" enough for you?

"Object description: Three Long Range Desert Group 30-cwt Chevrolet trucks, surrounded by desert.
Label: LRDG (Long Range Desert Group) Chevrolet 30-cwt trucks, 25 May 1942."

IWM E 12385.jpg

IWM (E 12385)_cropped.jpg IWM (E 12385)_cropped 2.jpg
Source: https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/i...ject/205196758

[Hanno Spoelstra]

"Object description: General George Patton, C-in-C of the American 7th Army, and General Władysław Anders watching the Carpathian Lancers Regiment exercising, using a M3 Scout Car as a stand (in the background). In the foreground Polish and American officers posing together for a souvenir photograph on the top of a Chevrolet WB 30 cwt truck.. Photograph taken during General Patton's official visit to the 2nd Polish Corps at Qassasin in Egypt."

large_E_027118_1.jpg
Source: https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/i...ject/205234840

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

"Object description: General George Patton, C-in-C of the American 7th Army, and General Władysław Anders watching the Carpathian Lancers Regiment exercising, using a M3 Scout Car as a stand (in the background). In the foreground Polish and American officers posing together for a souvenir photograph on the top of a Chevrolet WB 30 cwt truck.. Photograph taken during General Patton's official visit to the 2nd Polish Corps at Qassasin in Egypt."

Source: https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/i...ject/205234840

Here's a better scan of the same picture.

Going by Mike's description, this is a 1940 model. Note the bonnet is marked with "TOBRUK 1941" ans its registation number "395011"

95714107_1577740775740439_4399411417350930432_o.jpg

[Hanno Spoelstra]

One more:

"TOBRUK, LIBYA. 1941-10. NX23 MAJOR D.A. CORMACK, 2ND-IN-CHARGE HQ, 9TH AUSTRALIAN DIVISION SIGNALS STANDING BESIDE AN ARMY VEHICLE."

AWM 020874 3951786.JPG

Source: https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/C5227

[Bob Carriere]

....seems to be sitting on Firestone tires with no modifications to the front fenders......


Thanks Hanno

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

Here's another pic of one of those 15-cwt Chevrolets with Indian Pattern wooden body. It accompanies two 1533X2 30-cwt trucks, so it seems these were used by the LRDG. "Pure" enough for you?

A further search yielded these were Chevrolet 1311X3 15-cwt 4x2 GS truck (1/2-ton 115" W.B., adapted from the civilian Chevy AK model; X3 = CKD for India). These were used by the LRDG - see the quotes below.

Originally Posted by paul Lincoln

Vehicles seen in photos with wooden bodies were 1311 15cwt trucks used by patrol commanders, medics etc.

Originally Posted by David_Hayward (RIP)

d) I may well be wrong in assuming that the 3-tonners delivered to Egypt under S/M 2005 weer Chassis with cab 1543 Models. I assumed that they were the same as CC60L because of the civilian versions registered in the UK. I can now see the logic in delivering at least the 1940 Models as Model 1541 flat-faced cowl for local bodying and cabs. That said the LRDG 1941 Models included some 1311 1/2 ton 115" chassis with flat-face cowl [as per 1311X3 to India] plus "200" 1533 134 1/2" w.b. chassis with cabs, delivered minus cabs and modified grilles!

Originally Posted by David_Hayward (RIP)

Known other Chevrolet MCP trucks include 1/2 ton 115" wheelbase Model 1311X3 for India (and alsdo some for the LRDG), 1421 1-ton chassis with flat-face cowl 125" wheelbase, 1531 2-ton 134 1/2" wheelbase chassis with cab including 200 1533x2 for the LRDG.

From Bart Vanderveen: Truck, 15-cwt, 4x2, GS (Indian), (Chevrolet 1311X3).
6 cyl., 78 bhp, 3F1R, wb 113-1/2 in., 3192 lb.
Troop Carrier based on Canadian-built 1939 (and later) 1/2-ton commercial chassis. Used in Egypt and North Africa by British Indian Army and LRDG. 9.00-13 sand tyres.

chevindia_BVV.jpg

[Hanno Spoelstra]

One more picture of the Chevrolet 1311X3 15-cwt 4x2 GS truck in use by the Indian Army:

57485501_1220639688117218_819926982136430592_o.jpg

[Hanno Spoelstra]

One more picture of the Chevrolet 1311X3 15-cwt 4x2 GS truck in use by the LRDG. They received 25 of these in December 1941 and used them as so-called pilot cars:
LRDG_1311x3_2.jpg


A 1940 model 1311X3 in use by a British Army convoy (not LRDG) on their way back from Kufra returning to Wadi:
Mostert_0026.jpg
Source: https://www.fjexpeditions.com/frameset/GJMostert.htm