140 Crated Spitfires buried in Burma (Myanmar)?

Keith Webb · #1 14-04-12, 08:33

More Burma Spitfires to be discovered.

Here's one of these delightful stories that so often wind up being false. Let's hope that's not the case this time.

Link

Quote:

British and Burmese authorities could work together to find 20 Spitfires buried in Burma at the end of the World War II, officials say.

The case of the missing planes was raised when PM David Cameron met Burmese President Thein Sein.

A Downing Street source said it was "hoped this will be an opportunity to work with the reforming Burmese government".

The exact location of the planes is unknown.

The planes were buried in 1945 by the RAF amid fears that they could either be used or destroyed by Japanese forces, but in the intervening years they have not been located.

The Spitfire is arguably the most important plane in the history of aviation
Downing Street
At the time they were unused, still in crates, and yet to be assembled.

Until a general election in 2010, Burma was ruled for almost half a century by a military junta.

It has been reported that experts from Leeds University and an academic based in Rangoon believe they may have identified the sites where the craft are concealed using sophisticated radar techniques.

On Friday, officials said President Thein Sein was "very enthusiastic" about the prospect of finding and restoring the planes.

A Downing Street source said: "The Spitfire is arguably the most important plane in the history of aviation, playing a crucial role in the Second World War.

"It is hoped this will be an opportunity to work with the reforming Burmese government, uncover, restore and display these fighter planes and get them gracing the skies of Britain once again."

Wayne Henderson · #2 14-04-12, 10:11

Would be great to open the crates to fine 20 unrestored Fairey Battles.

Hanno Spoelstra · #3 17-04-12, 00:19

The work of a determined man ....

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/de...-in-Burma.html

Tony Smith · #4 17-04-12, 11:44

This story wasn't released on 1 April, was it? It seems there are some "Burmese Whispers" allowing the story to evolve unchecked.

THIS SITE says the aircraft have already been physically located in February, and arrangements are being finalised to dig them out. Once sanctions are lifted on exporting military equipment from Burma, they're on their way back to the UK.

Private_collector · #5 17-04-12, 12:12

This sounds like it might have 'legs', this story. I hope so anyway.

I regret that I didn't make the effort to investigate a claim my father made, regrading Australian

'machinery' and stores that Dad swore was hidden near Rebaul Harbor. He was no liar, and was also one of the last of Aussie servicemen to leave the area. As his wife (first wife) had died while he was in New Guinea, he was in no hurry to return, so arranged to stay on until 1946.

I just love these stories and the occasional one that proves to be true wets my appetite.

Bring em home lads

Speedy · #6 27-04-12, 00:40

reading that gave me a chill, is this true!
they should televise the find and everything involved. its kind of a big deal!

Keith Webb · #7 27-04-12, 00:56

...no solid evidence yet...

Hanno Spoelstra · #8 28-04-12, 01:12

Turning nasty?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/history/w...-in-Burma.html

Speedy · #9 28-04-12, 18:47

so 20 turned into 120? does that even sound reasonable.

Grant Bowker · #10 28-04-12, 19:01

One of the articles says total production was 20,000. some crashed in the water and were never seen again, many more were written off with as much as possible recovered for re-use and the remainder recycled. I don't know what the total fleet was by war's end but 1% of total production buried in one relatively area seems suspect.
Another way to look at it is that 120 aircraft represents how many squadrons? There might have been that many squadrons in the area so it might be possible but how likely.
My other question about the whole concept is- what condition will they all be in if they are recovered? The climate is a whole lot tougher on airplanes in that part of the world than the Greenland glacier B-29 and the P-38 also salvaged from the ice.

Wayne McGee · #11 18-10-12, 16:53

CBC article says that a British citizen will recover up to 140 Spitfires which were buried by the Americans in Burma immediately after WWII being excess to requirements.
The belief is, that the aircraft are in good shape and the intention is to see many of them capable of flying again.

....I've already put my name down for one!

Cheers

Wayne

Richard Farrant · #12 18-10-12, 19:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wayne McGee

CBC article says that a British citizen will recover up to 140 Spitfires which were buried by the Americans in Burma immediately after WWII being excess to requirements.

Crikey, they must be breeding, there were only 20 Spits buried back in April when the story broke. Think the story at the time was they were buried ahead of the Japanese advance, so before the end of the war, a few contradictions in this weeks news versions

Wayne McGee · #13 18-10-12, 19:56

The article stated that earlier this year the number did indeed stand at 20 airframes, however a Burmese (Myanmarian?) archeologist who was assisting said that there was up to 140 aircraft at several locations about the country.
They have a 2yr contract to recover up to 60 aircraft and re-negotiate on recovering the rest.

Cheers

Wayne

Richard Farrant · #14 18-10-12, 21:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wayne McGee

The article stated that earlier this year the number did indeed stand at 20 airframes, however a Burmese (Myanmarian?) archeologist who was assisting said that there was up to 140 aircraft at several locations about the country.

Thanks Wayne, I just saw another news item that mentioned 60. With 140 that would have been one giant hole to dig, but if at different locations I can understand that now. Just to pull one out and find it in recoverable condition will be a miracle.

Hanno Spoelstra · #15 18-10-12, 23:37

I've read so much contradicting information on this subject now, I'd say: seeing is believing . . .

H.

Little Jo · #16 19-10-12, 01:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

I've read so much contradicting information on this subject now, I'd say: seeing is believing . . .

Hi Hanno

Re the buried Spitfires in Burma. There is a report today in our daily newspaper. "SA Advertiser," Friday 19/10/2012, regarding the subject . They state that, Aircraft enthusiast, David Cundall spent 15 years and $200,000.00tracking them down. He states that there are 60 planes buried in their transport crates at a secret location 12 metres below ground, to ensure they did not fall into Japenese hands.

The Spifires are believed to be in good condition because they were waxed, wrapped in greased paper and had their joints tarred by RAF crews. Excavation is due to start at the end of the month after an agreement was signed by the British Prime Minister Mr Cameron and the Military Regime in Rangoon.

Mr Cundall started his seaches in 1996 after hearing a throwaway remark from a group of US Veterans who said that Spitfires were buried in Burma. They were shipped to Burma and transported by rail to a British RAF Base in August 1945, they were apparently deemed surplus to requirements.

Mr Cundal tracked down an eye witness who led him to the burial site. He eventually located the the buried planes using ground-penetrating radar equipment. So the dig begins at the end of this month (October 20112).

I look forward to further newspaper reports.

Cheers

Tony

Wayne McGee · #17 19-10-12, 07:53

This is a familiar subject. I've been involved with discussions on this site concerning the intentional burying of perfectly useable vehicles, aircraft, or equipment simply because that it was perceived as the most cost effective solution at the time. As counter-intuitive as it seems today, I cannot deny that this practice was not an aberration but was actually quite a common practice that I believe was practiced throughout the Commonwealth.
What a concept to discover that a substantial section your GNP could so easily be discarded without even being willing to recover a fraction of the cost thru "scrap value", in fact, incurring the labour costs of your troops being paid hansomly to employ heavy equipment to dispose of cutting edge technology.
It makes me wonder....how many squeaky clean, brand new, Canadian Leopard II's are just below the surface in the countryside of Kandahar?

Cheers

Wayne

Hanno Spoelstra · #18 19-10-12, 08:06

Hi Tony, thanks for that. I'd like to point out the contradiction I see, which was also pointed out by Richard:

Quote:

He states that there are 60 planes buried in their transport crates at a secret location 12 metres below ground, to ensure they did not fall into Japenese hands.

And then:

Quote:

They were shipped to Burma and transported by rail to a British RAF Base in August 1945, they were apparently deemed surplus to requirements.

So when were they buried: at the start or end of the war?!?

Anyway, I hope they are found and that this project will indeed lead to better relations between the people of Myanmar and the UK.

H.

Lang · #19 19-10-12, 09:00

They are widely believed to be Mk 14 Spitfires - late models. Griffin not Merlin engines. The Burmese Air Force operated Mk 14 Spitfires through the 50's - they were bought second hand from the Israelis.

A Spitfire case is one and a half times the size of a 40 foot shipping container. Made of softwood not noted for long life.

140 is just ridiculous. 12 Squadrons worth.

To bury 140 Spitfire crates 40 feet underground would require a hole the size of Wembley Stadium.

If they get them out at minimum they will have to be completely re-riveted, a huge job. The slightest corrosion on many critical parts completely writes them off for ever being airworthy.

A Spitfire is worth around $2,000,000 flying. A total restoration including reskinning and replacement of corroded fittings would conceivably cost more than this. If 120 hit the market there will be a nose dive in the value of Spitfires.

Nobody has seen them, nobody has had ground penetrating radar on the job.

There seems little doubt there were some Spitfires buried (just deep enough to cover the boxes I dare venture. Production and shipping details are available for every Spitfire ever built - the claimants obviously have based their research on these records.

The numbers and details in the above posts are figments of enthusiast's and journalists imagination.

Buried in August 1945, I was not aware the Japanese Army was fighting on after surrender to such an extent Spitfires had to be buried to hide from them.

Little Jo · #20 19-10-12, 09:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lang

They are widely believed to be Mk 14 Spitfires - late models. Griffin not Merlin engines. The Burmese Air Force operated Mk 14 Spitfires through the 50's.

A Spitfire case is one and a half times the size of a 40 foot shipping container. Made of softwood not noted for long life.

120 is just ridiculous. 10 Squadrons worth.

To bury 120 Spitfire crates 30 feet underground would require a hole the size of Wembley Stadium.

If they get them out at minimum they will have to be completely re-riveted, a huge job. The slightest corrosion on many critical parts completely writes them off for ever being airworthy.

A Spitfire is worth around $2,000,000 flying. A total restoration including reskinning and replacement of corroded fittings would conceivably cost more than this. If 120 hit the market there will be a nose dive in the value of Spitfires.

Nobody has seen them, nobody has had ground penetrating radar on the job.

There seems little doubt there were some Spitfires buried (just deep enough to cover the boxes I dare venture. Production and shipping details are available for every Spitfire ever built - the claimants obviously have based their research on these records.

The numbers and details in the above posts are figments of enthusiast's and journalists imagination.

Buried in August 1945, I was not aware the Japanese Army was fighting on after surrender to such an extent Spitfires had to be buried to hide from them.

Hi Hanno and Lang

We all know how journalists like to promote sensationalism. However there are a number of reports regarding the "Found Spitfres" to maybe though some truth on the matter. Especially if they refer to the British Government meeting in Burma to secure the recovery of the boxes.

One wonders how the crates could survive in the ground in tropical weather. But I guess we will all have to wait and see, today's newspaper report, (attached) does state they will start recovering them at the end of the month, that is only a couple of weeks away. Though the Spitfires numbers vary depeding on what report you read. In the meantime it makes for interesting reading.

Another report below.

The new Battle of Burma: Find 20 buried Spitfires and make them fly
• Historic planes buried in Second World War are to be shipped back to Britain after their mystery locations were discovered
• War leaders did not want them to fall into foreign hands when they demobilised in 1945
• Hidden in crates at a depth of 4ft to 6ft the RAF then forgot where they were
Twenty brand-new RAF Spitfires could soon reach for the sky following a deal reached with Burma yesterday.
Experts believe they have discovered the locations of around 20 of the Second World War fighters buried at airfields around the country.
David Cameron has secured an agreement that they will be returned to Britain.

Historians say the Spitfires were shipped out to Burma in the summer of 1945, two weeks before atomic bombs were dropped on Japan which brought the war to a sudden end.
The British campaign to push the Japanese out of Burma was the longest and bloodiest of the war, beginning after the Japanese invaded in late 1941.
Spitfires helped to support the Chindit special forces on the ground – and proved a huge boost to morale. They played a crucial role in defeating the enemy and covering the subsequent Allied advance through Burma, protecting the ground troops and providing vital supplies.

But the Mark II Spitfires in the secret haul never saw action. Earl Mountbatten issued an order for them to be hidden in 1945 to prevent foreign forces from getting their hands on them as the British army demobilised. The aircraft, straight from the production line, were buried in crates at a depth of 4ft to 6ft to preserve them.

Cheers

Tony

charlie fitton · #21 19-10-12, 20:19

Wayne
__________________
.50 Cal Ammo Can

Gotta respect a man who can justifyably brag about his collection...Tell me Wayne - does your tongue hurt, pressed into your cheek like that?

f

Wayne McGee · #22 19-10-12, 22:08

Hey, I don't like to brag...but, when you got it...flaunt it.

Cheers

Wayne

universalgrl · #23 23-10-12, 04:31

The question begs to be asked "what else was buried along with the spits"
Guns, ammo, support equipment, etc.etc.

tankbarrell · #24 23-10-12, 09:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lang

Nobody has seen them, nobody has had ground penetrating radar on the job.

True for the first part, not true for the second. A very reliable source says he has seen the radar scans and they show items of the correct size to be crates but GPR is hard to interpret and they may just be shadows in the ground by now.

Lang · #25 23-10-12, 11:53

Adrian,

I still stick with no ground penetrating radar. I notice a fair bit of hedging bets in your contact's information.

Lang

tankbarrell · #26 23-10-12, 12:03

You are assuming you know the identity of 'my contact'.....

Actually, he is not my contact, just a very reliable source of information. He has merely stated he has seen scans (that purport to be) of the site and they show what seems to be areas of approximately the right size and shape to be crates.

Unlike many, he doesn't post opinion as fact so a degree of bet hedging is inevitable.

I am fairly sure that anything pulled out of the ground in that area will be more of curiosity value than anything else but I hope I'm wrong!

Lang · #27 23-10-12, 12:13

Adrian,

I think you may be right about the condition. It would be nice to think some were restorable to at least a good static display standard. A flying restoration would be fantastic.

Lang

Mrs Vampire · #28 09-11-12, 01:06

So no further reports after many months.

Wayne McGee · #29 09-11-12, 04:46

It's been less than a month since I posted the most recent article that laid claim to [U]140[U] buried Spits', Hanno must have joined my thread starter with an older one dating back to the origonal, much smaller discovery.

Cheers

Wayne

cletrac (RIP) · #30 09-11-12, 05:23

I tried to find a picture I have here somewhere but no luck yet. It's a 'photo' of the mines south of Drumheller at the 300 and 600 foot levels made from a helicopter with a ball hanging from a cable as he flew a grid over the site. I don't know if it was magnetic or radar based but you can see which stopes have collapsed and which ones had junk abandoned in them.
If anyone was serious about those Spitfires wouldn't they just get hold of some of that equipment for a few days and know for sure?
I couldn't believe you could come up with images like that and this was about 15 years ago!