MLU FORUM  

Go Back   MLU FORUM > GENERAL WW2 TOPICS > WW2 Military History & Equipment

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 05-01-18, 06:22
Colin Alford Colin Alford is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Barrie, ON
Posts: 376
Default Research regarding Cookers, Portable, No. 2

Background:

A few years ago I decided that I wanted to acquire a Cooker, Portable, No. 2 (J2/JA 0275 Consisting of Pot, cooking; stove; and strap) to fill the tray on the left fuel tank of a Mark 1* Universal Carrier.* This lead to an Internet search for information and images to determine exactly what I was looking for.* I was somewhat frustrated at the time because there seemed to be a lack of concrete evidence on when the various models were introduced and despite being able to find countless images and opinions of British produced stoves (and some images of Australian stoves) I could find no information about any Canadian production.

Armed with the information that I could find at the time, I purchased the earliest example of a British Cooker, Portable, No. 2 (Mark 2) Stove that I could find although I wasn't completely content that the Stoves, Mark 2 were produced during the war.* Later, I had the opportunity to obtain a 1942 dated Stove, Mark 1 and I jumped at the opportunity to have one that was definitely used during the war.* Still later I found another 1942 dated Stove, Mark 1 which was in much better condition than the first.* Along the way I obtained a 1944 dated Pot, cooking, with lid.* I also obtained a post-war dated Cooker, Portable, No. 2 Mark 2 complete for parts.

About 8 months ago I discovered that I could access many Canadian war-time files on-line but didn't pursue an in-depth study of the information on Petrol Cookers.

About 2 months ago I spotted a stove for sale on kijiji which completely changed my point of view on Canadian use and production of Cookers, Portable, No. 2 and prompted me to completely review all of the available information.

I absolutely do not have all of the answers regarding these cookers but I have found some very interesting information that I think will help expand the knowledge base of Militaria/Military Vehicle collectors.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 05-01-18, 06:25
Colin Alford Colin Alford is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Barrie, ON
Posts: 376
Default

(British) Cookers, Portable, No. 2 - A very brief history

The Cookers, Portable, No. 2 appear to have started life as a commercial product of the Turley and Williams Company.* See this link:* https://classiccampstoves.com/threads/turley-williams-safety-junior-portable-stove-patent-late-1930s.28481/#post-290546<https://classiccampstoves.com/threads/turley-williams-safety-junior-portable-stove-patent-late-1930s.28481/>


It is described in the 1939 Vocabulary of Army Ordnance Stores, Section J2, Portable Cookers and Cooking Equipment which can be downloaded at this link: http://www.essexhmva.co.uk/education...%20Cookers.pdf


In the British and Commonwealth Armies the majority of food was prepared in bulk by the unit cooks and then either served to the troops at the food preparation area or distributed in insulated containers.* However, this arrangement was not always suitable for the crews of Tanks, AFVs, Universal Carriers, or other personnel who could be detached a considerable distance from the unit so they were provided with the Cookers, Portable, No 2, so they could prepare their own meals when required.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg DSC01573.JPG (123.4 KB, 10 views)
File Type: jpg DSC01574.JPG (135.4 KB, 6 views)
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-01-18, 06:26
Colin Alford Colin Alford is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Barrie, ON
Posts: 376
Default

The problem that emerged with the existing cookers

All of the main types of British Cookers (including No. 1, No. 2 and No. 3) appear to have been satisfactory items from prior to Jul 1939 (the publication date of the above V.A.O.S) until the fall of 1942 when their continued use was upset by the decision to supply M.T. 80 Leaded Petrol.

It was quickly learned that the existing cookers were not suitable for use with leaded petrol and all of them either had to be modified or completely re-designed so that they could function properly.


War Office Letter 57/General/1926/O.S.9. dated 17 Mar 1943

Cookers, Portable and Leaded Petrol

"M.T 80 petrol, which contains lead, is now being adopted as the motor spirit for all purposes and is likely to be in general distribution by the middle of April.* From then onward this leaded petrol will be the only grade readily available.

Cookers, Portable, Nos. 1, 2 and 3 will not function satisfactorily on petrol containing a high tetra-ethyl-lead content unless special cleaning and adjustment take place to remedy the effect of the lead.

The remedy is to prevent the petrol in the cooker burner from exceeding a temperature of 600 degrees F, above which the tetra-ethyl-lead becomes decomposed and is deposited as a solid which rapidly chokes jets, etc...."
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05-01-18, 06:30
Colin Alford Colin Alford is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Barrie, ON
Posts: 376
Default

Modifications to the Cookers, Portable, No. 2 (Mark 1) Stoves:

There was an immediate necessity to derive and issue a field modification for the existing cookers to minimize the damage while a long term solution could be developed.

Information regarding the modifications can be derived from the following sources:

1.***** Royal Army Ordnance Corps, Report on Research Work and Experiment, Quarter ending 31 Mar 1943
2.***** War Office Letter 57/General/1926/O.S.9. dated 17 Mar 1943
3.***** Army Council Instructions, 24 November 1943; 1725 Equipment - Cookers, Portable, Nos. 2 and 3 - Improved Modification for Burning Leaded Petrol.
4.***** Investigation of Operation of Cookers, Portable, No.III, Mk.II and No. I (Hydra Type).* 14 Aug 44, from Capt, W.M.Campbell M.E.3.(b). to M.E.3 CMHQ

RAOC Quarterly Report:

Item No:* 96
Objective Requirements:* Cookers, Portable, No. 1, 2 and 3: - Stoves
Research and Experimental items in hand and contemplated:* To prevent choking of the burner jets by ingredients of petrol grade M.T. 80
Progress and Position on 31 March 1943: "A simple metal trough to be filled with fire-clay or other "insulator" has been designed, which can be improvised by the user.* This protects the petrol feed pipes from excessive heat and minimizes precipitation of lead."
Link:* http://heritage.canadiana.ca/view/oo...6/1364?r=3&s=1




War Office Letter 57/General/1926/O.S.9. dated 17 Mar 1943; Cookers, Portable and Leaded Petrol
http://heritage.canadiana.ca/view/oo...88/388?r=3&s=2


"....These improvisations must be carried out as soon as leaded fuel is used.* If lead accumulates in the Cookers they will rapidly become unserviceable.* No unit should proceed overseas without making these preparations.* Action should be taken to inform all units by the quickest possible means....New patterns of burner are about to be produced, which will be immune from the effects of leaded fuel, but it is essential that the large number of Cookers in use be protected and kept in service."


Army Council Instructions, 24 November 1943; 1725 Equipment - Cookers, Portable, Nos. 2 and 3 - Improved Modification for Burning Leaded Petrol.
http://heritage.canadiana.ca/view/oo...88/385?r=0&s=1


"An improved modification which enables Cookers, portable, Nos 2 and 3 to burn for much longer periods than previously before it becomes necessary to clear lead and carbon deposits from the burner components has been developed....The instructions in War Office Letter 57/General/1926/O.S.9. dated 17th Mar 1943, concerning Cookers, portable, Nos 2 and 3 are hereby cancelled.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg default.jpg (260.7 KB, 4 views)
File Type: jpg default-1.jpg (238.9 KB, 1 views)
File Type: jpg default-2.jpg (333.8 KB, 2 views)
File Type: jpg default-3.jpg (338.7 KB, 2 views)
File Type: jpg default-4.jpg (364.7 KB, 1 views)
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05-01-18, 06:33
Colin Alford Colin Alford is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Barrie, ON
Posts: 376
Default

Investigation of Operation of Cookers, Portable, No.III, Mk.II and No. I (Hydra Type).* 14 Aug 44, from Capt, W.M.Campbell M.E.3.(b). to M.E.3 CMHQ

See the full document attached.* It includes a sketch of the modification detailed in Army Council Instructions, 24 November 1943; 1725 Equipment - Cookers, Portable, Nos. 2 and 3 - Improved Modification for Burning Leaded Petrol.

While this report is on the Cookers, Portable No. 3, the burner assemblies on the Nos 2 and 3 are identical aside from the length of the vaporizer tube.

http://heritage.canadiana.ca/view/oo...88/477?r=0&s=2
Attached Images
File Type: jpg default-5.jpg (218.8 KB, 4 views)
File Type: jpg default-6.jpg (218.4 KB, 2 views)
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 05-01-18, 06:36
Colin Alford Colin Alford is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Barrie, ON
Posts: 376
Default

The timeline from design to mass production on the Cookers, Portable, No. 2 (Mark 2) Stoves:

A reasonably complete timeline can be derived from the following sources:

5.***** Royal Army Ordnance Corps, Quarterly Reports on Research Work and Experiment; and
6.***** Chief Inspectorate of Stores - Didcot, Fortnightly reports showing new patterns, etc., under consideration with progress to date.

RAOC Quarterly Reports:

Item No:* 86
Objective Requirements:* Cookers, Portable, No. 2
Research and Experimental items in hand and contemplated:* Re-design

Progress and Position on 31 Dec 1942: "Modified designs have been produced incorporating a simplified burner & adaptation of the cases to retain the reservoirs in position.* Experiments are partially successful and are being continued."* Link:* http://heritage.canadiana.ca/view/oo...6/1370?r=3&s=1

Progress and Position on 31 March 1943: "...Experimental patterns are on trial and reports are awaited." Link:* http://heritage.canadiana.ca/view/oo...6/1363?r=3&s=1

Progress and Position on 30 June 1943: "Modified designs have been approved and supplies ordered."* Link:* http://heritage.canadiana.ca/view/oo...6/1357?r=3&s=1


Chief Inspectorate of Stores - Didcot:

Item No.: 15 (16 for No. 3 Cooker)
Cat No.:* JA 0275 (JA 6483 for No. 3 Cooker)
Designation:* Cookers, Portable No. 2
Requirement:* To re-design to make suitable for leaded petrol
Progress on 2 Oct 1943:* "No 2. - Production held up for want of certain raw materials."
**************************** "No 3. - Production proceeding. 1000 a week expected after 6 Oct 43"
Link:* http://heritage.canadiana.ca/view/oo...6/1819?r=3&s=1


Progress on 16 Oct 1943:* "No. 2 - Production in hand"* Link:* http://heritage.canadiana.ca/view/oo...6/1817?r=3&s=1


Unfortunately the rate of production for the No. 2 Mark 2 is not stated and I have not found any concrete information regarding a date that the Mark 2s got into the hands of the troops.* The following document does seem to indicate that at least some Mark 2 stoves had been issued by 26 Jan 1944

http://heritage.canadiana.ca/view/oo...88/376?r=0&s=1
Attached Images
File Type: jpg default-10.jpg (339.3 KB, 3 views)
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05-01-18, 14:54
charlie fitton's Avatar
charlie fitton charlie fitton is offline
HLIofC - Normandy Pl
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Maryhill Ontario
Posts: 942
Default

Colin - Surely you can get a PHD for that research....


(Pot History Detection)


Thanks.
__________________
Charles Fitton
Maryhill On.,
Canada

too many carriers
too many rovers
not enough time.
(and now a BSA...)
(and now a Triumph TRW...)
Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Research Project Mike Gray Your Relatives 3 21-03-16 23:44
T16 number research Joe Bowen The Armour Forum 1 16-12-15 11:42
WW1 soldiers research chris vickery The Sergeants' Mess 7 30-03-07 00:43
Historical Photo Research... Alex Blair (RIP) WW2 Military History & Equipment 0 11-04-05 17:15
David: one for your research Bill Murray The Softskin Forum 6 19-01-05 23:49


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 07:04.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Maple Leaf Up, 2003-2016