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  #1  
Old 24-10-11, 04:20
Rob Fast Rob Fast is offline
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Default FAT Fast 17 pounder recovery

This all happened pretty quick. Tony and myself took a couple of days away from the golf industry to dig this heavy weight out of the hole! Got it home today after a white knuckle drive in good weather on a quiet Sunday afternoon. This recovery would not have been possible without the loading expertise of Rob Love and Dirk Derin of Prairie Command . Tony and myself would like to thank them and Al at Westborne for all the help. See pics and more to come. Cheers Rob
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011.jpg   009.jpg   006.jpg   007.jpg   017.jpg  

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  #2  
Old 24-10-11, 06:13
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Cudos to you guys, seems that there is plenty of military kit out your way and people to help.

Excellent job

R
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  #3  
Old 24-10-11, 17:58
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Phil Waterman Phil Waterman is offline
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Default Some people just have good luck

Hi Rob

Some people just have really good luck in coming on interesting finds, or you have a good intelligence network scouting parts. Either way congratulations on a nice find.

Now have you got a lead on a limber?

Cheers Phil
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  #4  
Old 25-10-11, 02:45
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Phil,

Knowing that bunch out west they most certainly dont have a lead on a limber but likely have a recovery strop on one as we speak.

I think all their chairs are embedded with horseshoes

R
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  #5  
Old 25-10-11, 06:12
rob love rob love is offline
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There is supposed to be the remnants of an old 25 pdr limber in the cambrian yard. But by what I have read the limber did not go with the 17 pdr.
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  #6  
Old 28-10-11, 01:07
Alex van de Wetering Alex van de Wetering is offline
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Default

Excellent find guys! I am sure it will look excellent behind the FA(S)T.

Attached is a pic taken in Antwerp, Belgium. source: National Archives Canada 40843
I have also seen a number of pics of 17pdr's being towed by Morris Quads, both the beetle back as well as the the later type.


Quote:
There is supposed to be the remnants of an old 25 pdr limber in the cambrian yard. But by what I have read the limber did not go with the 17 pdr.
Haven't seen pics of Quads, 17pdr's combined with Limber (yet), but Crusader Gun Tractors did sometimes use the Limber combined with 17pdr gun. Anyone know what the ammo storage looked like?



source: http://www.network54.com/Forum/47208...er+Gun+Tractor


Also in this Pathe movie: http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=53625

Alex
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FAT 17pdr Antwerp Belgium 001 copy.jpg  
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  #7  
Old 28-10-11, 01:25
rob love rob love is offline
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I read on a site somewhere that the limbers were towed empty just to make use of the braking system. Did the limbers have a surge brake?

Does 17pdr ammo even fit in a 25 pdr limber?
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  #8  
Old 28-10-11, 03:09
Rob Fast Rob Fast is offline
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Default FAT Fast 17 pounder recovery

See pics of recovery and hoping this new thread will generate a lot of FAT/17 Pounder info in the future. I will add that there was nothing lucky about this find, the boys knew it was there, Al the owner just decided to give up the piece to me, Thanks Al... Cheers Rob
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001.jpg   008.jpg   009.jpg  
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Last edited by Rob Fast; 30-10-11 at 02:17.
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  #9  
Old 28-10-11, 15:24
rnixartillery rnixartillery is offline
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Default 17 pdr

Hi guy's

Very interesting and lucky find you have there ,do you have the ordnance for the gun,barrel,breech ring etc.I have a complete 17 pdr which I have spent about 12 years restoring as parts have come along but I also have a complete carriage which I am also scourcing parts to complete a second gun.
As far as I have researched some gun crews towed their 17 pdr's behind no 27 limbers to act as a brake and to carry small stores,the 17 pdr ammo is fixed so it does not fit inside the limber unlike the semi fixed 25 pdr ammo.

Rob.......................rnixartillery collection.

Pics of my guns attached

Last edited by rnixartillery; 27-07-19 at 21:59.
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  #10  
Old 28-10-11, 15:39
rnixartillery rnixartillery is offline
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Default 17 pdr

And pics of the second carriage that I bought earlier this year,this carriage had been used as a test bed at a research range.

Rob..................rnixartillery.

Last edited by rnixartillery; 27-07-19 at 21:59.
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  #11  
Old 28-10-11, 21:15
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Default If only Alex. If only!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex van de Wetering View Post


Anyone know what the ammo storage looked like?


Alex
I have heard rumours of conversion kits to take the 17 pdr ammunition in some form but yet to see evidence. But that does not mean it is not true.

Cheers
Kevin
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  #12  
Old 28-10-11, 22:46
rnixartillery rnixartillery is offline
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Default 17 pdr

I have just taken some pictures in my armoury to show the difference in length between the No 27 limber trays carrying 25 pdr ammunition and the fixed 17 pdr rounds the shortest in length being the APC round,this clearly shows that the 17 pdr rounds are too long to fit the limber box.The only possible way to store 17 pdr ammunition would be to widen the limber box by altering the blast wall and I very much doubt that would happen.


Rob..................rnixartillery.

Last edited by rnixartillery; 27-07-19 at 21:59.
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  #13  
Old 28-10-11, 23:13
kevinT kevinT is offline
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Default Clearly

Rob,

I have not said that the trays themselves were used, as you say and show the 17 pdr rounds are too long. But I am sure I have read somewhere that there were conversion kits for the limbers to take the 17 pdr rounds. Perhaps the central dividing panel was removed and some rounds were stored lengthways as opposed to end on. This question about the limbers has been banded around for sometime. Upto yet it has not been confirmed either way that they were used to carry 17 pdr rounds or just used to carry stores and extra kit.
Great photos by the way.

Cheers
Kevin
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  #14  
Old 01-11-11, 02:34
Rob Fast Rob Fast is offline
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Default Fast 17 pounder

The gun is missing the barrel,breech ring, the guts of the gun are long gone, you take them the way you find them. I had to purchase a Leopard tank barrel as part of the deal, so I have something to fake it with. So the search is on for an orginal barrel/breech/muzzel brake etc....!
Just getting into the rust and seized bearings etc... all stamped "Made in England", I realized I am getting into BSF tap and dies." Shit" would be the right Canadian term to use here.

There is a great shot of a Canadian 17 pounder knocking out a water tower in the Canadian News Reels DVD, episode Road to the Reich, Newsreel 44.

Anyone have a Canadian source for BSF 1"-10 castle nuts, both axle nuts were gone and I was lucky to get it up on the trailer.

Cheers , Rob
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1942 C8A- HUW " Wireless Nipper"
1943 F-60S LAAT and 1939 Bofors
1942 C8 Wireless
1943 FAT/ 17 pounder
1941 C15 GS 2B1

Last edited by Rob Fast; 01-11-11 at 02:50.
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  #15  
Old 03-11-11, 00:31
rnixartillery rnixartillery is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Fast View Post
The gun is missing the barrel,breech ring, the guts of the gun are long gone, you take them the way you find them. I had to purchase a Leopard tank barrel as part of the deal, so I have something to fake it with. So the search is on for an orginal barrel/breech/muzzel brake etc....!
Just getting into the rust and seized bearings etc... all stamped "Made in England", I realized I am getting into BSF tap and dies." Shit" would be the right Canadian term to use here.

There is a great shot of a Canadian 17 pounder knocking out a water tower in the Canadian News Reels DVD, episode Road to the Reich, Newsreel 44.

Anyone have a Canadian source for BSF 1"-10 castle nuts, both axle nuts were gone and I was lucky to get it up on the trailer.

Cheers , Rob
Rob,' Shit ' is one word for it but I can think of a few more ! I may have a couple of hub nuts knocking around somewhere if it helps.

Rob.................rnixartillery.
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  #16  
Old 13-11-11, 20:36
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Marc Montgomery Marc Montgomery is offline
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Whats the story behind finding this and where?

There are 2 x 17pdrs in my town, beside a tiny monument of a WWi soldier. Im sure NO ONE here knows what they are,. Im sure no one would even notice if one or both disappeared.

Several years ago, when I first restored my truck, I went to the local (francophone) legion and asked if they wanted me to participate in their ceremony with my restored CMP...kind of equivocal answer..so I showed up anyway...No one seemed interested..I drove behind them as they marched around a couple streets around the legion...waited at the ceremony, afterward no one said anything to me, invited me inside or in fact said a word to me before during or after...rien...nada..nuttin at all...not even a merci. It was as if this very large original wwii vehicle and owner were not even there...very disappointing experience.. I did not return.

I later discovered an Anglo legion nearby in the next town..they have a 25pdr on the lawn. but few members, and probably fewer now as Anglo community dies or moves away. I should drive by and see if it even still exists.
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  #17  
Old 08-01-12, 19:14
Rob Fast Rob Fast is offline
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Default Mil Web 17/25 pounder recuperator...

for sale on Mil Web...I wonder if this was stowed in the FAT? Too far away for me...Cheers Rob

http://www.milweb.net/classifieds/la...ad=60355&cat=6
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  #18  
Old 08-01-12, 20:00
rob love rob love is offline
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Filling and purging of recouperators is a weapons tech responsibility, and not that of the users. It is not simply a case of "fillerup". These would not have been issued on the scale of one per gun.

Some of the 25 pounder tools for the guns are still in use today on the 105s. I have a couple of the quick release tools for doing the drawback, and as well, some of the weapons guys have related to me getting old pumps like the one you linked to out of the supply system.
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  #19  
Old 09-01-12, 17:41
rnixartillery rnixartillery is offline
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Each 25 pdr carried one of these pumps in the pump box that was located in the No 27 limber stores tray !


Rob ..................rnixartillery.
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  #20  
Old 10-01-12, 23:40
Gunner Gunner is offline
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Default Tiffy's

Hi Rob and Rob:

When the 25 pounders were first designed, the Gun Tiffy's were still Ordnance Corps or artillerymen. Arte and Marte, the RCEME twins, weren't born until 15 May 1944 (and, speaking as a "user and abuser", we're sure glad to have them around! )

The 17 pounder used a similar recoil mechanism to the 25 pounder (the differences are for the most part, internal) so the same pump was issued on the same scale of one per gun. The funny round 4 inch(ish) bracket on the left trail of a 25 or 17 pounder was where the pump was fitted to the gun and topping up was part of, IIRC, daily maintenance (I'll have to check the manuals) so the pump would be a worthwhile addition to any 25 or 17 pounder collection. I wish I could afford it myself!

Congratulations on adding a 17 pounder to your ordnance collection, Rob F!

I was lucky enough to have one of our Aussie brothers mail me the 17 pounder manuals a few years ago. It will take me some time to dig them out of the mess I call my house (another construction project continuously delayed by frequent deployments overseas!) but once found I'll copy them and send a set along.

UBIQUE! Mike
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  #21  
Old 11-01-12, 00:25
rnixartillery rnixartillery is offline
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Quite right, but the no 5 pump was also used on a number of other pieces,the 3.7" mountain gun to name one.One thing should be noted that the pump socket on the gun trail should NOT be painted,it should be clean and greased otherwise the pump will not lock into position.
I have pump sets for all of my guns including my mountain gun which has a Brass socket riveted to the trail.
I have attached a pic of my 25 pdr with the pump fitted .

Rob..................rnixartillery.

Last edited by rnixartillery; 27-07-19 at 21:59.
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  #22  
Old 11-01-12, 02:14
rob love rob love is offline
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I was just talking with an artilleryman today about the topping up of the recoil system. He mentioned that while every 105 is issued one of the little filling tools, and they would add as required when the recoil would be acting up, the weapons techs did not like the users topping up their own recoil mechs.

I stand corrected wrt the scale of issue of the pumps. I guess the operators performed a little more indepth maintenance than they do nowadays.
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  #23  
Old 11-01-12, 22:07
Gunner Gunner is offline
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Default The Robs

Looking at this thread, I think I may have to change my name to Rob just to avoid confusion! (no apologies to Monty Python and the Aussie university faculty sketch! )

Rob Nix: looks like I might be in the UK for a few days in March or April. Any chance of dropping in to see your collection and maybe swig a few at your local?

Rob Love: now that you remind me, the Tiffy in D Bty in the '80s would let the guys top up thier recoils on their own after he had trained them himself and was satisfied that they would religiously enter it into the Gun History Books. I have scanned the Canadian Gun History Book and will happily send you a copy for your superb 105mm C1. I will PM you about some bits I'm looking for for a M1942 Zis 3 Russian and some info on 105mm disposals.

Rob Fast: the same Gun History Book will be appropriate for your 17 pounder.

Cheers! Mike
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  #24  
Old 13-01-12, 00:13
rnixartillery rnixartillery is offline
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Mike,

Anyone who shares the same interest is welcome at my place,I do live quite away up North though.
You are more than welcome and the kettle is always on the boil !

Rob Nixon...............rnixartillery.
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  #25  
Old 03-02-12, 01:29
Rob Fast Rob Fast is offline
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Default Carriage,17-Pr.,Mk.1/W

See limber carriage attachment. Different than the No.27...Cheers Rob
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  #26  
Old 03-02-12, 18:24
rnixartillery rnixartillery is offline
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Rob,
This is pictured and listed in the 17 pdr spares manual.
It would be interesting if anyone has actualy seen one as I dont know of any in existance !


Rob.....................rnixartillery.
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  #27  
Old 12-09-12, 02:35
Rob Fast Rob Fast is offline
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Default A good recovery day...

Tony found 2 artillery rims 9:00x16 and the drag washers Part no. FL 931 off of this trailer 2 ton GS??? That part number puts the drag washers off of a 17 pdr. or a 17 pdr. limber.. Rims 25 pdr... See pics
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009.jpg   008.jpg   004.jpg  
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1942 C8A- HUW " Wireless Nipper"
1943 F-60S LAAT and 1939 Bofors
1942 C8 Wireless
1943 FAT/ 17 pounder
1941 C15 GS 2B1

Last edited by Rob Fast; 14-09-12 at 23:51.
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  #28  
Old 12-09-12, 11:04
rnixartillery rnixartillery is offline
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Great find Rob,all these parts add up in the end. Have you managed to find any other bits for the project.

Rob.....................rnixartillery.
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  #29  
Old 12-09-12, 12:37
Rob Fast Rob Fast is offline
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Default Hi Rob

No other bits found as of yet. The gun project has been crawling along, spending any spare time on the FAT which is now running. We took it for its first drive just the other day. But I will get back to the yard that this trailer was in to have a closer look . Cheers Rob
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003.jpg  
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  #30  
Old 13-09-12, 00:13
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Default Notify Rob Love of another trailer in Manitoba!

Rob & Tony,
Better notify Rob Love of another trailer available,He likes collecting them and I am sure he has a spot in the yard for another one!
Nice find on the rims and hub covers!
Derk.
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