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  #1  
Old 10-04-06, 15:42
sillymike sillymike is offline
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Question BOP-REL Binocular

Hello folks! New guy here...

I'm trying to find some information about a pair of REL-BOP binocular and a good friend told me about this forum

Here's the top view of the binocular, with the broad arrow. So I assume they were army issued.



The dial next to the occulars are for built in filters. (Really dark, dark, yellow and clear).




I've come accross some information on their 6x30... but sweet nothing on these (except for another guy in the UK with a pair...)

Thanks,

Mike.
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  #2  
Old 10-04-06, 17:10
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Beaconing Optical & Precision Materials of Granby, QC (BOP) was contracted to work on Binoculars, Prismatic, No 2 Mk 2 (6x30). In my optics research I found no mention of work on 7x50 although this could post-date the earlier contract.
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  #3  
Old 19-04-10, 22:41
WpgBinocular WpgBinocular is offline
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Default Vintage Military Binoculars

For several years I have enjoyed collecting vintage binoculars.
The collection of over 50 mostly vintage binoculars many of them military or with a military history can be viewed at:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/binocwp...405689/detail/
I would appreciate any comments, further information or corrections the members of this forum could provide about these binoculars and my descriptions of them.
In particular, I am researching the BOP filter conversion of the Canadian 7X50 REL binocular. If you have any 7X50 REL binoculars or a BOP converted one, I would be most interested in its details such as model #, year of manufacture, number of dry air ports, serial number, presence of coated lenses, presence of yellow Admiralty arrows, and any other information you may have about its history and manufacture.
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  #4  
Old 19-04-10, 23:51
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Here is what I found a few years ago. Again, nothing on these in a 7x50 configuration.

"As part of a Canadian Army standardisation programme for all
manufacturers and makes/marks of No. 2 binoculars, Beaconing Optical &
Precision Materials of Ganby, QC (BOP) was approached to modify three (3)
binoculars, Prismatic, No 2 Mk 2, manufactured by Universal Camera (USA).
These were serial numbers 11510, 14451 and 12721. The modifiations included
work on; Axles, Hinges, Prism mounting plate, and; Fixing (cementing) the
Prism. My documents show that the work was done for a cost of $280.00
'however the price for a quantity job will be considerably reduced'. This
implies that a wide-ranging programme was contemplated. My copy of the
original drawing clearly shows the BOP/Canada truncated oval logo."
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  #5  
Old 20-04-10, 09:49
Lynn Eades Lynn Eades is offline
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Default Frank

As you are the man to ask, I have a picture of a bracket in an Armoured Observation Post. ( a Bren carrier built to use as an observation post for spotting etc for artillery units) The carrier has a wide opening shutter where the gun slot would normally be,for veiwing through, with bino's. On the inside is a swinging bracket, that looks like a support for the binos.( see pic below)
The question is; Were there any binos that were made to be supported/steadied on a central support.
Attached Thumbnails
AOP a.jpg  
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Carrier Armoured O.P. No1 Mk3 W. T84991
Carrier Bren No2.Mk.I. NewZealand Railways. NZR.6.
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So many questions....
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  #6  
Old 20-04-10, 15:41
WpgBinocular WpgBinocular is offline
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This is a little out of my area because I collect only hand-held binoculars, but the answer to your question is yes there were a lot of binoculars which would have been steadied on a central support. There was a class of large and heavy binoculars (10X80's and 12X60's) which were used by anti-aircraft units for aircraft identification and target acquisition the best ones probably being made by Zeiss. They were mounted on tripods and cowlings and enabled observers to ascertain bearing and elevation of targets. There is another class of naval deck mounted binoculars of the same size and I think also larger up to 20X again used for target acquisition and determination of bearing of target. There were other naval binoculars of low power such as 6X with a very wide field of view which were mounted on the conning tower of a submarine and were submersible to great depths. Again, in spite of the low power these were heavy binoculars. I have seen one made by Bausch & Lomb. Also, various holders and brackets were produced which would hold conventional hand-held binoculars, in WWII 6X30 being the standard infantry configuration and 7X50 the standard naval binocular. This is what the bracket you reference was probably meant to hold. In the sinking of the Bismark action, the first sightings of the German warships were made with a Barr & Stroud CF41 7X50, the standard hand-held British naval binocular, which had been mounted on enemy bearing indicators.
I hope this answers your question. Most of what I've described is correct, but I do stand to be corrected on the details by someone out there who is more knowledgeable in the area than I am.
Frank
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  #7  
Old 21-04-10, 11:46
Lynn Eades Lynn Eades is offline
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Default Frank.

Thanks for all of that. The collective knowedge base here is amazing.
I was considering a post to ask the question, and when this thread came up, I just had to ask.
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Carrier Armoured O.P. No1 Mk3 W. T84991
Carrier Bren No2.Mk.I. NewZealand Railways. NZR.6.
Dodge WC55. 37mm Gun Motor Carriage M6
Jeep Mb #135668
So many questions....
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  #8  
Old 22-04-10, 02:04
BCA BCA is offline
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Default BOP Binoculars

In the late 1980's (?) there were many pairs of 7x50 REL binoculars sold at Crown Assets sales in the Toronto area. Amongst them I saw a few of the BOF 7x50 binoculars with the adjustable filters. I still have one pair: there are no broad arrows impressed into the leatherette as shown on Mike's binoculars but the markings are generally the same except that the right side is embossed C.G.B. 57 G.A.
R.E.L. 7 x50
7212-C
There are no other markings such as date etc. The 2 screw heads on eiher side of each filter selection knob are painted with red paint, I assume to indicate if they have been tampered with if the paint has been disturbed.
....... Brian
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  #9  
Old 22-04-10, 07:45
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derk derin derk derin is offline
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Default binocular collection

Hi Frank,
I was wondering if you could identify a monocular I have had in my collection for along time now.The only book that has a picture of one is David Gordon's book Equipment of the WWII tommy but does not say anything about it.Could you tell me anything about it?It is marked; O.S. 735 C.A./ BINO,PRISM No 5 Mk IV x 7 / REGd No 75250


I also have a set of binoculars that were just identified to me as being an American set that were used by Canadian officers in WWI. They are C broadarrow marked on the left side and have ZEISS PRISM STEREO 6x30 /on the right is stamped BAUSCH & LOMB OPTICAL CO Rochester N.Y. The leather case has a C broadarrow stamped on top and the company logo stamped on the inside lid.




Here is a picture of the 46th battalion in 1915 at Camp Hughes.All of the officers are wearing the American Mills equipment 45 Colt sidearm and these binoculars.

I also have a pair of the regular issue binoculars with a pair of broadarrows in the front.On the back is stamped;Right side/GRATICULES 1/2 APART AND 1/4;1/2;AND 1; HIGH/KERSHAW/1943 O.S.108-MA. Left side/BINO.PRISM No2 MK.IIx6 No186740.


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  #10  
Old 22-04-10, 07:46
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My last pair I have were just released from crown assets last year and are marked; left side/No5 CDN.Mk 2/4 /crossed out is;C.G.B. 40 M.A./ 7x50 /26090-C and C Broadarrow marked.Right side crossed out is;graticule mil scale 10 mils apart & 5 mils 10 mils & 20 mils high / REL/CANADA 1945 /cal/canada 1950. Stenciled in blue ink is C 5.


Derk.
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1942 Ford universal carrier Mk 1
1943 Ford 60 cwt long CMP ambulance
1943 Ford GPW 1/4 ton stretcher jeep
1943 Bantam T-3 1/4 ton trailer
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  #11  
Old 22-04-10, 22:23
WpgBinocular WpgBinocular is offline
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Brian,
Thank you for the response. Do your BOP's have coated lenses? Also, in addition to the dry air ports on the back does it have 1 dry air port on each side at the front?

Last edited by WpgBinocular; 22-04-10 at 22:24. Reason: grammatical
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  #12  
Old 23-04-10, 03:08
BCA BCA is offline
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Default BOP binocs

I don't know how to recognize coated lenses. If dry air ports where the screws are then there are only on the rear covers; 2 per side as is shown in the original photo at the beginning of this thread. Incidently the strap is 1/2" wide leather, dyed black on the smooth side and rough natural leather on the rear and edges.
.... Brian
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  #13  
Old 24-04-10, 19:21
WpgBinocular WpgBinocular is offline
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Derk,
Your Binoprism No. 5 Mk IV monocular is unusual and the first one I've seen. This is what I've been able to uncover so far.
The Binoprism No. 5 Mk IV binocular was introduced November 1941, and the black crackle finish such as your monocular has was introduced 1942. In 1947 the color of the finish of the Binoprism No. 5 Mk V was changed from black to olive drab. Since there is no mention of No. 5 Mk IV's in that directive, I'm guessing the model was no longer manufactured by 1947. Does your monocular have coated lenses? If so, it was likely made 1945 or later. Your monocular was probably manufactured by Ross who made most of the Binoprism No. 5's, but there were other manufacturers such as Nottingham Instruments Ltd. Ross' 1939/40 catalog does list a 7X50 Porro II monocular called the "Stepmonite". Also, as of 1941 the British army manuals reference several monoculars but none as far as I can tell were Porro II's like yours. I'm surprised your glass doesn't have a crowsfoot marking, but I'm not positive all British military glasses had it. If it was used by the Canadians, it may not have had it either. I've seen the O.S. marking before but don't know what is means. I'll let you know if I find out.
That is a terrific REL you have. What are its optics like? Also, how do you locate Crown Assets sales?
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  #14  
Old 27-04-10, 07:42
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derk derin derk derin is offline
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Hi Frank,
Thanks for the information.The R.E.L. set I have was first listed in a Crown assets sale.There were 3 to bid on but I didn't bother bidding as I had enough projects on the go.Then my buddy phoned me up and said he found the person who won them and had them for sale.He bought a set for himself and he picked me up a set.I was glad he did as they turned out to be in great shape.Both the monocular and the R.E.L. set have clear optics.How do I tell if they have coated lenses?
I believe crown assets has there listings on the internet under Government of Canada website.I am not familiar with it as I haven't been on it.
Derk.
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1942 Ford universal carrier Mk 1
1943 Ford 60 cwt long CMP ambulance
1943 Ford GPW 1/4 ton stretcher jeep
1943 Bantam T-3 1/4 ton trailer
BSA folding airborne bicycle ser#R5325 (early)
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  #15  
Old 28-04-10, 05:24
WpgBinocular WpgBinocular is offline
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Derk,
From WW II through the 1970's anti-reflective coatings on binoculars were made of extremely thin layers of Magnesium Flouride which gave the objective (front) lens of the binocular a dark blue color. If you examine the objective lenses of your Bausch & Lomb Zeiss and Kershaw Binoprism No. 2 Mk. 2, they should appear clear because these binoculars did not have anti-reflective coatings. I'm pretty sure the lenses of your REL 7X50's are coated, and I think that they will look a lot more blue than those of the two earlier made glasses. I'm not so sure about the monocular, however. Does the color of its lenses look more like those of the REL or the Kershaw? Also, the early anti-reflective coatings on binoculars were fairly soft so it is not unusual to see rub markings on the interior of the lenses caused by careless cleaning. Unless severe, these usually don't noticeably affect viewing. Modern anti-reflective coatings, by the way, usually have a brown/gold or greenish color.
Frank
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  #16  
Old 28-04-10, 06:37
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derk derin derk derin is offline
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Frank,
I have looked at all my optics and they all seem clear,including the REL binoculars.If the REL binoculars are coated,It is very faint.Do I need to look at them outside in the daylight to tell for sure? Does the fact that they are dated 1945 and then 1950 mean they were upgraded or repaired at one time?
Derk.
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1942 Ford universal carrier Mk 1
1943 Ford 60 cwt long CMP ambulance
1943 Ford GPW 1/4 ton stretcher jeep
1943 Bantam T-3 1/4 ton trailer
BSA folding airborne bicycle ser#R5325 (early)
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  #17  
Old 28-04-10, 15:54
WpgBinocular WpgBinocular is offline
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It seems that most 1945 and possibly some late 1944 REL 7X50's had coated lenses. Starting about serial number 24500, they all seem to be coated, and yours is serial number 26090. Also, I can't believe that in 1950 they would choose to upgrade a binocular without coated lenses since there would have been many with coated lenses available to work on. Sometimes this coating is sort of faint and not really obvious. Your binocular is particularly interesting because the markings seem to indicate it was modified in some way. If so, the modification may have involved a strengthening of the prism attachments or some kind of improved weatherproofing. If you're ever in Ft Garry, give me a call at 452-0336, and I could look at them.
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  #18  
Old 21-05-24, 00:06
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I was just looking at my unembossed pair of B.O.P. 7x50s and the binocular tubes and hinge are very different from any R.E.L. 7x50 I have or have seen.

Were only the optical elements of the R.E.L. 7x50 used perhaps?

Construction is much heavier and more robust overall.

I have seen photos of these conversion kits as New Old Stock parts and I'd be interested in obtaining a set of those if anyone has spares?
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  #19  
Old 21-05-24, 00:13
Grant Bowker Grant Bowker is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WpgBinocular View Post
Also, how do you locate Crown Assets sales?
If you haven't already found the website, it is https://gcsurplus.ca/mn-eng.cfm
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