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  #1  
Old 10-02-03, 00:54
Michael Dorosh's Avatar
Michael Dorosh Michael Dorosh is offline
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Default Currie's tank - St. Lambert sur Dives

Okay, here is a dumb question - I know Currie was a squadron commander at St. Lambert, and commanded a batttle group of his squadron and some Argylls.

My question - did he have his own tank, or did he exercise command from a different kind of vehicle?

If he did have a tank, what do we know about its markings?
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Old 10-02-03, 03:48
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Default Re: Currie's Tank

Michael;

From the book SOUTH ALBERTAS, A REGIMENT AT WAR, Currie had his own tank (Sherman).

The markings of which, if any, would have been the "C" Sqn circle, in white, on the turret sides and the AoS: white 45 on Green over Blue and the 4th Cdn Armd Div formation sign.

Hope this helps.

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Old 10-02-03, 03:59
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Thanks Mark! Do you have a page number I can reference? I do own the book, but never saw this discussed. Kind of funny that I haven't seen this subject on the MLU board before - surely someone out there must have wanted to reproduce Currie's tank in 1/35 scale or something like that, no?

I'd be interested in knowing if there is any record of the WD number, for example.

As for the circle - a lot of the photos in the book show the squadrons used a three character code - A12 for example. Doesn't seem like the white geometric codes were used universally.

Lots of different style of lettering too - some in large on the back of the tank, some in small, some in small on the side of the turret - some in white, some in a darker colour.
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Old 10-02-03, 15:06
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Default Currie's Tank

Currie's tank was named CLANKY.
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Old 10-02-03, 15:59
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Default Re: Currie's Tank - Follow-Up

Michael;

Ref: page 156, regarding Currie's tank and as Chris as added, Currie's tank was named 'CLANKY' (page 179).

Ref: "C" Sqn Tac Signs - looks like they were either (within the circle):

1) painted in (hand or stencil)
2) chalked in (see page 127)
3) not used at all

Looks like "C" Sqn just used numbers, no letters, ie: 42 not C42.

Ref: W.D. Numbers, haven't got a clue, although there is a colour illustration, page 180, showing CT 236656, as being used.

Thats about it Michael.

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Old 11-02-03, 00:43
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Thanks guys! I am hoping to pick up a 1/6 scale Sherman in the near future; I have a crew for it, just need the tank.....
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Old 11-02-03, 00:59
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Default Re: 1/6 scale Sherman

Michael;

Post a pic when complete.

Cheers

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Old 11-02-03, 01:12
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Well, I think I have the commander picked out....best I can do for now is a Stuart, though....think there's a resemblance, here?

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Old 11-02-03, 01:41
Dwayne Hordij Dwayne Hordij is offline
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Thumbs up Currie

HI Mike,
Your figure does have a resemblance to Currie. I think we need someone to make a proper pixie suit though. Nice work on the cap badge.
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Old 11-02-03, 01:50
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Yeah, the pixie suit is next. The zipper is Godawful, and there should be two of them. A bit of work with the sewing machine should net me the proper pockets on the upper body, though, and I have some 1/6 scale pencils for them.

Of course, if the tank deal comes through, I think (or hope) people would be eyes agog at the sheer size of the Sherman and not too concerned about the pixie....but we both know there is one guy in every crowd who will pick apart the details....:

I must say, this new forum is easier to get used to than I would have thought.
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Old 11-02-03, 02:12
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Default Resemblance

Michael;

Your right, he does resemble Currie.......interesting.........................

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Old 12-02-03, 21:56
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Default Re: Possible picture - Currie's tank

Michael;

May have found a picture of Currie's tank at St. Lambert. See attached. NAC/111586, the picture is from Denis Whitaker's book: THE SOLDIERS' STORY, VICTORY AT FALAISE.

Currie is standing on the left of the picture, right hand on hip/holster. In the original picture, you can just make out the "C" Sqn circle on the turret side. Note the 'sigs spool' on the turret side-rear, this is why I think it may be Currie's tank. If you want, I'll e-mail the pics to you.

What do you think.....................

Cheers

Attached Thumbnails
currie 1.jpg  
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Last edited by Mark W. Tonner; 12-02-03 at 22:08.
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  #13  
Old 12-02-03, 22:49
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Awesome! Yes, please email to madorosh@shaw.ca

I have arranged to order the Sherman, so hopefully in a couple weeks will have something to show. Looks like I'll need a signal spool...

I wonder if it would be possible to get high quality photo prints, or high res scans, of these photos? Would be great to add to a display.
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  #14  
Old 13-02-03, 00:07
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Thumbs up Re: Pics - Currie's tank

Will send shortly Michael, full picture and close-up of tank.

Cheers

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Old 14-02-03, 11:13
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Quote:
Originally posted by Michael Dorosh
I am hoping to pick up a 1/6 scale Sherman in the near future;
A 1:6 scale Sherman?!? That model should be over 38"/almost 1 metre long! Is it motorised and radio-controlled? Please tell me more!
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  #16  
Old 14-02-03, 16:10
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Not motorized - it is resin, not plastic or metal. Details at this page:

http://www.monkeydepot.com/merchant/aaaviper2.htm

I'll post some pics once I get it; should be shipping after next week apparently.
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Old 14-02-03, 16:24
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Cool Re: Sherman Kit

Michael, looks like you've got your work cut out for you. Resin ah!, hmmmm....

Cheers

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  #18  
Old 14-02-03, 16:30
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I would imagine that it's as close to a Sherman V as you're going to get in this scale. Do you plan on major (and I do mean major) surgery for a conversion or will you be content with a build-up straight out of the box?
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Old 14-02-03, 16:41
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I was going through Clive's new pamphlet on Canadian armour. I take it this model is the American M4 whereas the M4A4 was what we Canadians called the Sherman V? I know very little about the variants.

The Sherman V had an extended hull for the Chrysler multibank, yes?

That honestly hadn't occurred to me until I ordered - I was looking primarily at the driver and co driver hatches, and satisfied that the direct vision slots were there and that this was not an M4A3.

I think I will probably content myself with a straight from the box look (aside from painting, weathering, and adding some details from pictures of the real CLANKY, such as wire on the hull sides for camouflage, and perhaps the wire spool Mark emailed me - (I forgot to thank you for those pictures, by the way, Mark.))

But maybe you can tell me -

SHERMANS IN CANADIAN SERVICE do mention that the M4 saw Canadian use. I was on Hanno's site yesterday but didn't have time to surf as much as I want. Was the straight M4 used overseas at all, or in any significant numbers?

What other differences besides the extended hull (and I would guess, the rear deck details) did the Sherman V have from the M4? I am guessing the three piece transmission housing stayed the same (the pam says the Sherman V retained this), the turret seems not to have changed, but I don't know about the mantlet - did the M4 in the model, and the Sherman V have the same type of mantlet (M34??)

I will be deleting the .50 AAMG as per previous conversations.
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Old 14-02-03, 17:09
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Quote:
Originally posted by Michael Dorosh
What other differences besides the extended hull (and I would guess, the rear deck details) did the Sherman V have from the M4?
The biggest visual difference is that the three sets of bogies on each side are further apart from each other than on the rest of the regular M4 series of tanks. You could always ignore that in this case, or cut the hulls to extend to M4A4 dimensions... how good are your scratchbuilding skills?

On the other hand you could pretend this is an 'A2 and make it BOMB...
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  #21  
Old 14-02-03, 17:55
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Having had a look at the site that advertises the Sherman kit, I think I'd be content to leave well enough alone as the changes required are just too many. If you have a copy of the RCAC history book, there's a photo on page 259 of CLANKY that could give you some ideas as to stowage carried on the front. Note that the tracks are different than those supplied in the kit too. For the money you're spending, have fun with it and ignore the rivit counters. Dress 'er up like CLANKY might well have appeared in St. Lambert.

As for the sigs spool on the rear of the turret, I think Mark is on the right trail IDing that shot in St. Lambert as probably being CLANKY. If you look at the lower right photo on page 268 of the RCAC history, you'll see a knocked out Sherman V with a sigs spool on the right rear of the hull. I think John Marteinson pulled his punches on the caption out of respect for Don Worthington, CO of the BCRs. The caption I have on a copy of the photo states that it's actually Worthington's tank.
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Old 14-02-03, 18:00
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Default M4

The Viper model is an M4, as it has the rear engine deck for the radial engine - see the large air intake cover right behind the turret:


Other details are basically correct for an M4 Sherman, apart from the driver's hatches - I think these are a bit too angular to pass for the cast parts used in most Shermans. They look more like the fabricated parts used in a number of M4A2 Shermans.

(source: http://www.monkeydepot.com/merchant/aaaviper2.htm )

You can use the kit as-is, except for the fact that the M4 or Sherman I was not very numerous in Commonwealth formations. I'm sorry, but I can't tell you which Canadian units used them off the top of my head. Statistically speaking, they were a minority as 2,073 M4's (Sherman I) were supplied under Lend-Lease, against 5,033 M4A2's (Sherman III) and 7,155 M4A4's (Sherman V). (By the way, the M4A1 (Sherman II) with it's cast hull was the least numerous with only 885 supplied.)


Quote:
Originally posted by Geoff Winnington-Ball
On the other hand you could pretend this is an 'A2 and make it BOMB...
I'm with Geoff on this one. If you don't want an M4, the easiest way to convert it would be to turn it into an M4A2 as really only the engine deck and exhaust need modification. Let us know the result!
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Old 14-02-03, 18:13
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Now who would have thought the premier tank plan drawer in Canada would be dissing rivet counters?

I think you're right, but I'm tempted to look at your scale drawings in the pam and see what I can do anyway. Thanks to you and Geoff for the additional info. The problem with resin is that it is pretty fragile compared to the commercial plastic tanks (I have a 1/6 Stuart, but it was built for kids to play with, so is a bit tougher). I have done scratchbuilds and conversions in 1/35 but a 1/6 hull extension would be very difficult to do without being expensive and also horribly fragile.

I was going to depict CLANKY post St. Lambert - she was knocked out in October, so that gives me a Sep-Oct timeframe. The crew uniforms I have are a mix of BD and denims, and my infantry support will be all in BD. I also want to put Currie's VC ribbon on his uniform; any display I do will have some accompanying photos explaining what the stuff is - I can also mention the Sherman V difference.

Although BOMB is a neat idea too...hmm, maybe I really need two Shermans...
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Old 14-02-03, 18:22
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Not wishing to stir the pot here....

Has anyone here ever seen any photos of BOMB actually in service? All I know of were taken after the war as per Gregg's book... it would be interesting to see the way it was kitted out (for action) before being stripped prior to shipping back to Canada....
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Old 14-02-03, 18:32
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Whoops - just noticed your reply Hanno - thanks very much. Much to think about here, I appreciate the help.

Have you placed your order yet, Hanno?



EDIT - in combination with your order, if you need help with the divorce papers, I think one or two on this list can help out
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Old 14-02-03, 19:03
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Better yet, how about Radley-Walter's CARIBOU III? He had 18 tanks to his credit by the end of the war. It was an M4A2 of the SFR.
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Old 14-02-03, 19:32
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My infantry are all Calgary Highlanders, so Sherbrooke Fusiliers would be a better match (4th Div tended to support their own infantry, and SAR was technically recce, too, as everyone here knows). But my figure of Currie is so cool looking, and there is that whole VC thing too....

Come to think of it, I don't really know how often 2nd CID operated with tank support; I would presume they would have come from 2nd CAB - but they supported 3rd CID also. Sherbrookes lost the better part of a squadron supporting HLI at Buron in July, for example, just as 2nd CID was getting ashore. I defer to the armour experts here; did 2nd CAB provide much support to 2nd CID - and if not, who did?
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Old 15-02-03, 03:05
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Michael, glad the pictures I e-mailed came through ok. Well see what else I can find regarding 'CLANKY'.

Cheers

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Old 15-02-03, 04:03
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Default Re: Armoured Support to 2 CID

Originally posted by Michael Dorosh
Quote:
did 2nd CAB provide much support to 2nd CID - and if not, who did?

Michael, from what I can gather, 2nd CID was supported at one time or another by units of both 2nd CAB and 4th CAB, right through till the end of the war in Europe. Haven't found anything yet regarding armoured support from the Poles or the Brits. I'll keep looking and see what pops up.

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Old 15-02-03, 15:24
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Default Re: Tank support to 2nd CID

Michael, just a note - 1 RTR (Brit 7th Armd Div) supported units of 2nd CID at Verrieres Ridge, in particular - the RHLI. 1 RTR were equipped with Cromwells.

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