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  #1  
Old 18-11-04, 21:05
Hanno Spoelstra's Avatar
Hanno Spoelstra Hanno Spoelstra is offline
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Default Another Umbau-wagen?

See the picture below for another curious German conversion of a car of unknown make to me. Not sure if this is a Umbau-Wagen conversion, or a one-off. It seems like they grafted a locker on the rear to come up with a makeshift Kfz.11 m.Pkw.(o) 4x2 (medium car) or Kfz. 15 Nachrichten Kw. (signals car). Typically, the rear locker was a feature of the Kfz. 15, but in that case it should have cable reel holders on the front mudguards as well.

Who can identify the make/type of car? (David, Bill?) Was it a captured Allied vehicle?

Thanks,
Hanno

Note: the full picture can be found at Akira Takiguchi's Wehrmacht in World War II website. Caption: "This one is marked Betr.Tr.a.2 (Betriebstrupp a - telephone operations section). Three-color unidentified Armeekorps(?) marking is clearly seen."
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Old 18-11-04, 21:36
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looking from the back to the front and with the body lines through the doors it is, in my opinion, either a Dodge sedan or a Chevrolet of the late 1930's and more likely a Chev..
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Old 19-11-04, 10:07
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David_Hayward (RIP) David_Hayward (RIP) is offline
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Could be a Chevrolet, seized civilian European car..
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Old 19-11-04, 11:44
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Hanno Spoelstra Hanno Spoelstra is offline
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Cliff, David,

Thanks for the input. A Chevrolet it could be, in the thread Chevrolet staff car captured at Dunkirk we found the Germans used quite a lot of them.

H.
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Old 19-11-04, 17:44
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Default 1938..FORD!!!!

Now why did I not think of looking at a) the mouldings and b) this site!

http://www.autogallery.org.ru/m/fork3839.htm

It's a 1938-9 Ford G81A!!! Sorry I was wrong yet again!

See below for pix

Last edited by David_Hayward (RIP); 21-11-04 at 13:19.
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  #6  
Old 19-11-04, 19:53
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Mark W. Tonner Mark W. Tonner is offline
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Post Re: "grafted locker"

Quote:
Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra
It seems like they grafted a locker on the rear to come up with a makeshift Kfz.11 m.Pkw.(o) 4x2 (medium car) or Kfz. 15 Nachrichten Kw. (signals car).
Hi Hanno;

Was going to post this yesterday, but the forum didn't want to come out to play.....to slow...:.

Anyways, the "locker" is actually a 'clip-on' kit that was produced enabling the ordinary medium passenger car to be converted to an 'ersatz' Funkkraftwagen (Kfz. 15). The trunk lid was removed and the transmitter receiver controls fitted behind the front seats, as can be seen in the picture attached.

Cheers
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Old 19-11-04, 22:21
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Hanno Spoelstra Hanno Spoelstra is offline
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Default Chevrolet Kfz.15 Umbau-Wagen it is

Quote:
Originally posted by Mark W. Tonner
Anyways, the "locker" is actually a 'clip-on' kit that was produced enabling the ordinary medium passenger car to be converted to an 'ersatz' Funkkraftwagen (Kfz. 15).
Mark,

Thanks for that picture, but I don't think it is fitted with one of those 'clip-on' kits- it looks like a much more permanent conversion. Due to the fact that it belongs to a telephone operations section it must be a "Nachr. Kw. (Kfz. 15)" Nachrichtenkraftwagen or signal communications car, rather than a "Fu.kw. (Kfz.15)" Funkkraftwagen or radio car.

I had another look at Bart Vanderveen's "The Wehrmacht's Umbau-Wagen" in Wheels & Tracks No.30, and surely enough the answer was there:
Quote:
In addition to captured military truck chassis, the Wehrmacht had Chevrolet four-door sedans converted (rather than rebodied) to meet the specification of their medium cars (m.Pkw.) in Kfz 12/15 form. The original Kfz.12 was a four seater Kübel with towing hook for light guns; the Kfz.15 was basically the same but equipped for signals roles, with large rear locker and special fittings for radio equipment, cable reels, etc. From the late 1930s they had been superseded by the universal m.E.Pkw. type with four-wheel drive (Auto-Union, Opel), a technical masterpiece which from 1941 was supplemented by the sturdier Mercedes and Steyr 1500A and, to a much smaller extent, by these Chevrolet conversions.
Photographic evidence shows a highly standardized conversion: folding windscreen, topless original doors, the back replaced by a large full-width equipment locker with double doors, short running boards, and cut-away mudguards. we have no idea how many were produced and where or whether any other makes were used for similar treatment.
Pictures in W&T show converted 1936 Chevrolet FA Master sedan, 1937 Chevrolet GB Master, and 1939 Chevrolet JA Master DeLuxe sedan (below). Although Vanderveen does not show the pictures of Chevrolets with original roof and doors, I'm pretty convinced the first picture the photo above is one of these makeshift Chevrolet Kfz.15's, albeit converted to a lesser content than described by Vanderveen.

H.
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  #8  
Old 21-11-04, 07:34
Bill Murray Bill Murray is offline
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Good Morning Hanno:
Now 00:12 hours here at home.

This is a difficult one for sure but to give it a try, the door moulding pressings below the windows would lead me to believe it is a Ford as opposed to a Chev or a Chrysler product. It is an American derived vehicle in my opinion. For the moment I could not even hazard a guess as to the year or the exact model.

What I also noted is what is obviously a civilian registration plate and it looks to me to be German but just now I do not have to hand my listing of German "provincial" registration number codes.

I would also think it is a four door saloon/limousine, using European terms, as opposed to a two door vehicle which would not be very practical.

I will try again tomorrow to see if I can research it further.
Bill
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  #9  
Old 21-11-04, 13:15
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Default Here's the photos!




Koln-assembled...never seen one before!
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  #10  
Old 16-01-05, 12:05
Richard Notton
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Default Re: Another Umbau-wagen?

Quote:
Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra
See the picture below for another curious German conversion of a car of unknown make to me. . . . . . .
Three-color unidentified Armeekorps(?) marking is clearly seen."
Oh McSpool! Just a div TAC sign.

See the attached, I can't say where I got it, but you'll recognise the writing and I was told not to tell everyone else. . . . as usual.
:

R.
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