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  #1171  
Old 11-11-21, 05:36
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I have made and fitted an engine mount to suit the GMH Red motor that I will install and also made a mounting bracket for the twin hydraulic spool valve that will ultimately be connected to and controlled by the original tillers via rods and clevis's. By the time I install the engine, hyd pump, oil tank, radiator and any other part, it will still be quite busy in there. Still quite a bit of thought to go into it yet.
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  #1172  
Old 13-11-21, 07:14
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I have been busy making the valve control set up via linkage, making sure it won't interfere with the engine or hyd pump.
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  #1173  
Old 13-11-21, 07:20
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I could have shortened those cross rods to make it easier but as those rods, brackets, clevis's and the tillers are original from the tank and made in the 30s,I wanted to keep as much of the original parts as I could. A bit of return linkage was no big deal and it certainly operates great. Looking forward to driving this little beast. Hopefully not to far away. The engine and pump is next on the agenda.
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  #1174  
Old 13-11-21, 08:15
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Great work Colin… you continue to amaze!
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  #1175  
Old 15-11-21, 08:28
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Thank you Wayne, I appreciate your comment
thought I better prepare my track for installation as it is not far away. As a point of interest and I know this has been discussed before but for those who don't know, The track for the Australian carriers and the Ten Vickers light tanks ran wider horned tracks as we have wider wheels than the universal and T16 carriers @ 2.5". The track here is the English track it will suit one of my Vickers and I will be running Aust track for the other as those wheels are the original English design but the Aust width 3" As you can see in the photos the difference in horn spacing.
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  #1176  
Old 15-11-21, 08:34
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Just showing a photo of a track link with a bent horn. It goes to show just how malleable they are before they actually break.
I am also machining up connection plates to attach the soft start to the hyd pump. I had some 4140 so I thought it should go to some good use. I just need to cut the key into the shaft.
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  #1177  
Old 15-11-21, 08:40
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So one end will be bolted to the existing 4 bolt conn on the hyd pump shaft and the other I am machining up the bolt straight to the engine flywheel. I have a flex plate in the photo only for hole spacing. I still need to make a plate that will bolt to the bell housing/Hyd pump and floor then that will take care of the engine area, apart from the radiator and fan.
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  #1178  
Old 16-11-21, 04:33
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Some nice lathe machining there Must be satisfying for you nearing the end of a long project.

Do you prefer carbide tooling or HSS ? I mostly use HSS for my lathe doesn't have the mass/rigidity required for coping with industrial grade carbide inserts.

Sharp positive rake carbide inserts are available these days but the cheaper Asian brands are not that good.

The chap down the road from me rebuilds Steam traction engines .. along the lines of your work, he has a a horizontal boring machine, radial arm drill and a massive FORD brand lathe. made during WW2.
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  #1179  
Old 16-11-21, 05:30
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Hi Mike, I do like the carbide inserts mainly for the simplicity of changing them. I get most of mine on line but occasionally I need to grind my own for specific jobs. I still have plenty to do on these tanks but looking back at all the different jobs I have done to date, it doesn't seem so bad now
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  #1180  
Old 16-11-21, 13:35
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Did all Vickers Mk6’s have the wider track when they left the factory ?
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  #1181  
Old 16-11-21, 21:39
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Hi Richard, interesting question. Here's my thoughts on that. I don't believe they all had the wider track off the production line. I think it was for the Australian order only because of our standard wider track. The tank in Borden is fitted with the standard narrow gauge. I just can't imagine they would have had two different track horn widths for different models that would possibly be in the same outfit along with T16 and universal carriers that ran the standard narrow track as well. I too would love to get accurate information about this.
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  #1182  
Old 16-11-21, 22:03
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Interesting photo here. This is a photo of the Vickers at Duxford and guess what?? it has Australian track and this tank just happens to be one of the ten we got in Australia. For those who are not familiar with tracks, the Australian track don't have riveted pins but held in place with lead plugs.
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  #1183  
Old 17-11-21, 21:16
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Colin, I think you will find that the VLT Mk 6B all had the wide horned track. (was Australia the only purchaser of the the Mk 6B?) they are from 1935-6 approx.(you tell me?)
Later (1938) the Australian Government bought one of Carrier, Armoured M.G.No2 Mk1 (Machine Gun Carrier) This was built by Nuffield (Morris) Its British numbers were T2831 and HMH384.(Ref. Nigel Watsons carrier books) This was one of Britian's earliest production standardized carriers. T2831 was the first of a batch of 150 M.G. Carriers
Mike Cecil's Australian Military Equipment Profiles Vol.2 refers to it as a "Bren No2 MkI (This info was not available to Mike at the time of printing)
Anyhoo, moving on.
Australia then built 151 LP1 carriers taking the wide track idea from their currently "in service" VLT Mk6B tanks (except that at some point, they changed to the lead plug retainer from the headed pins)As every one knows, this then carried over to the later LP2 and then the LP2A. Later those building the Windsors and T16s saw the stabilizing benefits of the wider rubber and adopted the idea.
I believe that that an upgrade was considered in British carrier production, but was rejected as it would complicate (wait for it!) the supply chain.
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Last edited by Lynn Eades; 17-11-21 at 21:19. Reason: typo
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  #1184  
Old 17-11-21, 21:38
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Lynn, I certainly stand to be corrected, I'm sure there must have been others that purchased the tanks but it is odd that I have not seen the wider wheels or tracks on any other overseas machines unless they came from here. Interesting questions and a definitive answer would be most welcome.
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  #1185  
Old 17-11-21, 21:43
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Hi Lynn,

Aust purchased Vickers Mark VIA, not Mk.VIB - the thread title is misleading.

The misidentification of the MG No.2 Mk.1 was my fault in my reading of the contract card sourced from the Tank Museum. The card heading is 'armoured MG carriers No.2 Mk.1, followed by '150 Arm MG Carriers No.2 Mk.1; next 250 Bren carrier No.2 Mk.1; 26 Bren Carriers No.2 Mk.1', then the census number listing which includes T2831 is headed 'Bren' on the first line, then 'Carriers Machine Gun No.2 Mk.1' below. Any wonder I got confused!! But Mea culpa ...

Australia built 158 LP1, with the last 2 being experimental types more like the LP2, but still listed as LP1. (There is some confusion here that I've not been able to solve, as the number '160' appears on the side of a test rig similar in concept to the earliest iteration of a 'light tank' in what became the Australian Cruiser tank programme.)

Colin: as far as I'm aware, the Vickers Mk.VIA at Duxford was rebuilt in the UK from a wreck sourced from Australia, and utilised whatever parts were available and provided with the purchase. Two of the Aust Vickers Mk.VIA were sold to the Budge Collection, one (the worse of the two) was restored by RR Motors and then went to the Littlefield Collection. The other was sold to the IWM after Budge went bust. See my article on the Vickers Mk.VIA in the KVE newsletter circa January? 2018. You also have to remember that the Vickers tanks were used extensively for training from the time of their arrival until 1942. Track changes due to wear and tear were inevitable and as Aust carrier track was the same, so it is likely the Aust tracks were fitted in service.

Mike

Last edited by Mike Cecil; 17-11-21 at 22:42.
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  #1186  
Old 18-11-21, 20:50
Colin Alford Colin Alford is offline
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I visited the Base Borden Military Museum during lunch to have a look at the track on the Vickers Light Tank. The links are marked TL521 and the guide horns, and wheels, are definitely wider than those on the Canadian Universal Carriers Mk I* and Mk II* which are displayed nearby.

Colin
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  #1187  
Old 18-11-21, 22:07
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Hi Colin, thanks for that information. Going by that info and assuming that tank was not one of the Australian tanks then I will have to assume that they were all in fact produced with the wider wheels and track horns. Then there should still be some wider track around over there somewhere as they must have made a reasonable amount of spare. Has anyone else seen any around.
Mike, so does that mean those two and the one at Bovington were all from Australia. If so, then out of the ten delivered here, there are still 6 still in existence with my 2 and Puckas.

Last edited by colin jones; 18-11-21 at 22:12.
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  #1188  
Old 18-11-21, 22:20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by colin jones View Post
Hi Colin, thanks for that information. Going by that info and assuming that tank was not one of the Australian tanks then I will have to assume that they were all in fact produced with the wider wheels and track horns. Then there should still be some wider track around over there somewhere as they must have made a reasonable amount of spare. Has anyone else seen any around.
Mike, so does that mean those two and the one at Bovington were all from Australia. If so, then out of the ten delivered here, there are still 6 still in existence with my 2 and Puckas.
Colin,
The Vickers at Bovington is a MkVIB, not an Australian order, as those 10 were MkVIA models. I beleive Canada order some after the Australians. With your two, there are 5 known survivors from the Australian order around the World,
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  #1189  
Old 18-11-21, 22:23
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Yes you are right Richard, that's that one cleared up. Does that one have wide track and wheels.
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  #1190  
Old 18-11-21, 23:13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by colin jones View Post
Yes you are right Richard, that's that one cleared up. Does that one have wide track and wheels.
Not sure, will have to look next time I am at Bovington. I would say with the heavier weight than a Carrier, this is why the width of the wheels is greater. I also feel that the Australian Carriers may have wider wheels and tracks as the Vickers tanks were there and used as an example for them to copy at the time.
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  #1191  
Old 19-11-21, 02:02
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Richard, weight could well be part of it, but I think stability of the track came into it (not such a great tendency to fall off!) The Vickers tank has a longer track like the Windsor etc. The Loyd is similar in length, but retains the narrow track. I suspect the Loyd "got away with it" because of its lesser tare.
Also I suspect that the VLT, being classified a Tank, (teeth arms) needed that extra degree of independence on the battle field, that the more reliable wide horn track became its std. spec. As no doubt you are fully aware, Vickers by this stage had built and field tested so many variations that they knew what worked. All just my un qualified opinion.
On the track: It is interesting that so much of the wide horned track with headed pins survives. In this country at least. I wonder if the million links made in the USA for the war effort (Eastern War Council, NZ built LP2a order?) were of that style (otherwise where did they come from?)
Colin J. What would the weight of the tank be? Having crawled through your tanks some years ago, the memory of many light gauge aluminium bins/ boxes/trays etc. sticks with me. I cant help but feel an aircraft engineer was involved in fitting out these tanks. (Yes, I vaguely know Vickers built aircraft)
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Last edited by Lynn Eades; 27-11-21 at 22:29.
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  #1192  
Old 19-11-21, 05:30
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My opinion of the wider tracks at manufacture has changed. I think, with the information at hand, they probably did have two different styles. One for the Bren and one for the Vickers. Here is a list of laden weights and track links I got out of one of my books.
MK11.... 172 track links....4 ton 5 cwt
MK111.. 172 track links....4 ton 10 cwt
MK1V.... 148 track links.... 4 ton 6 cwt
MKV...... 154 track links.... 4 ton 15 cwt
MKV1.... 155 track links.... 4ton 17 cwt
There were variations in overall length with the MKV1 being the longest @ 155"
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  #1193  
Old 21-11-21, 09:35
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Engine front and rear mounts are completed. I had to move the front engine mount forward as the flywheel would have hit my new control linkage. I had plenty of room to scoot it forward. I machined up plates to bolt the hydraulic pump to which is now secured to the bell housing. I made an air intake tube and kept it as low as I could as I needed the depth to make my hydraulic oil tank with as much volume as required and I wanted it up high so it would gravity feed the pump. All good.
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  #1194  
Old 27-11-21, 03:42
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Mike C., I have edited my post (#1183) to more accurately reflect the facts as pointed out by you. Thank you for doing so.
L.
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  #1195  
Old 27-11-21, 11:50
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Lynn,
Re your post (#1183), T16s use standard narrow UC track, not the wide wheel path Windsor / LP / LT track.

David
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  #1196  
Old 27-11-21, 22:44
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Hi David, I'm a learner. Duly noted and edited. Thanks. I leaned on one in England at the 2014 W&P event, but was too busy taking in what I saw inside it, I guess?
There was an add on the "box" here some years ago (McDonalds) the guys brain was full. To have the details of the new McDonalds deal in his brain, he had to dump some other info. He then walked into all the doors. Maybe my brain is full? I've probably known the T16 has narrow track, but forgotten. You might continue to mis-spell a word, and when the red line appears under it you fix it, without having to check the spelling, because you already knew. That's me.
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  #1197  
Old 04-12-21, 04:00
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Lynn, we are ALL guilty of brain fade I certainly am
I have completed my Hyd oil tank and made it as big as I could without interfering with any thing else, also not changing anything to the original hull design. The tank will give me 65 usable liters of oil. That should be enough to not warrant a cooler but I will if the system does need it. I am fortunate that there is quite a bit of room there.
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  #1198  
Old 04-12-21, 04:09
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This is all a dummy fit to make sure the hoses are the right length before I send them to be crimped and also fitting new hoses I have had for some time. There are a couple of ports that will require some brain thought which is the two speed final drive and the park brake ports. I intend to make the original style hand brake lever connect to a valve and a gear stick for the two speed.
A lot closer now Bearing in mind that everything will once more come out, get painted, checked and refitted for final placement.
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