Wartime pictures: CMP FAT, NW Europe

[Hanno Spoelstra]

All,

I would like your help to locate as much as possible WW2-era CMP FAT pictures. Maurice Donckers, a friend and forum member (sadly with limited internet access) is finishing the restoration of his 13 cab CGT and needs reference pics. His quest for pictures of FATs in NW Europe camouflage scheme (see thread Field Artillery tractor camo) has yielded only two pictures.

Also, the number on the door of his CGT reads "H4244958". Can anyone add any info about this census number?

Surely more info must be out there?

Thanks!
Hanno

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Here is a picture of CH4244956, taken in the UK on 27 May 1944.

Caption: "A Ford CMP 25-pounder gun tractor with its limber, 5th Artillery Regiment (Royal Canadian Artillery)." Source: Bouchery, The Canadian Soldier, p. 135.


Source: http://www.surfacezero.com/g503/show...244956&cat=802

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Canadian(?) CMP FATs on victory parade, Amsterdam, 1945.

The one to the rear has census number H4207397 and markings "42"and "B2".


Source: /www.nederlandsfotomuseum.nl/
Bijschrift (NL) Geallieerde voertuigen nemen deel aan bevrijdingsoptocht, Rokin, Amsterdam (1945)
Fotograaf Oorthuys, Cas
Inventarisnummer 5885

[mike mckinley]

hi hanno

here are two photographs taken at camp utopia in new brunswick, canada circa 1942-43. utopia was a large training area and operated until the mid 1950's. all that remains now are concrete pads. interestingly, both are stamped top secret on the back. i hope these help maurice.

mike

[John McGillivray]

There are two photos of FAT’S from the 15Fd Regt. history.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by mike mckinley
here are two photographs taken at camp utopia in new brunswick, canada circa 1942-43

Hi Mike, these are certainly helpful, could you please e-mail large size scans to me so I can pass them on to Maurice?

Thanks,
Hanno

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by John McGillivray
There are two photos of FAT’S from the 15Fd Regt. history.

John, great!
Any info on where and when these were taken?
Can you make out the census numbers on the original pictures?

Thanks!
Hanno

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra
Also, the number on the door of his CGT reads "H4244958".

This is awfully close to CH4244956 (shown above) and H4244952 (shown below).

I can't find "H 42" series in David Hayward's British Contracts: Htm Listings. Were these supplied under Canadian contracts?


http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/at...=&postid=22572
Linked from Field Artillery tractor camo

[John McGillivray]

Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra
Any info on where and when these were taken?
Can you make out the census numbers on the original pictures?

The census numbers on the second photo appear to be on the right “DA” CH4207360 and on the left “DB” CH4207380. The photo were taken near Ruurlo Holland on the 8th of June 1945.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Thanks John. Interesting to see an 11/12 Cab in use by 1945!

Large size versions of Mike's picutures can be found here.

H.

[Les Freathy]

Some photos of the CMP artillery tractor that may help

1. taken in the UK early 1944


2. landing on the beaches, sorry the number on the side is unreadable


3. taken in in 1945 the number on the bumper is 74

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

I can't find "H 42" series in David Hayward's British Contracts: Htm Listings. Were these supplied under Canadian contracts?

Yes. 'CH' and 'H42...' series were Canadian allocations by the WD.

Note the SM 2646 F-GT..that proves that the contract was S/M 2646 and not 2546 and 2846.

H 5558176 to 5558375 SM 2646 'Tractor 4x4 ' Model C291Q


As mentioned on another thread, However HISTORIC MILITARY VEHICLES DIRECTORY P. 52 has a photo of a Chevrolet FAT marked up as ‘H5558307’! This now appears to have been explained.

[Mark W. Tonner]

Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra
Canadian(?) CMP FATs on victory parade, Amsterdam, 1945.

The one to the rear has census number H4207397 and markings "42"and "B2".

Hi Hanno;

These FATs may belong to 1 RCHA (their AoS Serial was '42') who where part of the Canadian Army parade in Amsterdam on 28 Jun 45.

Cheers

[Garry Shipton (RIP)]

Hi Mark,the unit was 1st.Div out of Kingston,Ontario.I'm trying ,thru my cousin,to get old photos of the artillary,FAT's,25 pounders,from my uncle.Besides the book "Right of the Line",do you have anything else on this unit,oh great oricle of Canadian military history!!

Be nice or you know who will come on line.

[Mark W. Tonner]

Originally posted by Garry Shipton
Besides the book "Right of the Line",do you have anything else on this unit

Hi Garry;

You may want to obtain the following microfilm reels through an interlibrary loan from Library and Archives Canada, for some further reading on 1 RCHA 39-45. The reels in question are:

Reel T-15921-15922 - 1st Field Regiment, Royal Canadian Horse Artillery - 1939/11-1940/09
Reel T-15922 - 1st Field Regiment, Royal Canadian Horse Artillery - 1940/10-1942/01
Reel T-15922-15923 - 1st Field Regiment, Royal Canadian Horse Artillery - 1942/02-1943/03
Reel T-15923-15924 - 1st Field Regiment, Royal Canadian Horse Artillery - 1943/04-1944/04
Reel T-15924-15925 - 1st Field Regiment, Royal Canadian Horse Artillery - 1944/05
Reel T-15925-15926 - 1st Field Regiment, Royal Canadian Horse Artillery - 1944/06-1944/10
Reel T-15926-15927 - 1st Field Regiment, Royal Canadian Horse Artillery - 1944/11-1945/03
Reel T-15927-15928 - 1st Field Regiment, Royal Canadian Horse Artillery - 1945/04-1945/07

Enjoy

[Garry Shipton (RIP)]

Can I get these reels through my local town library ??

[Mark W. Tonner]

Originally posted by Garry Shipton
Can I get these reels through my local town library ??

Hi Garry;

Go to your local library and they will explain how you can go about obtaining these reels through an interlibrary loan and where you can view them as they come in (if your in Montreal proper, probably the main branch of the library).

Cheers

[Garry Shipton (RIP)]

A battrey consists of four 25 pounders.Now when the FOO artillery spotter radios coordinates back to the battery,who did he send the info to,and how did this person coordiate the shoot to the four guns? Did each FAT have it's own 19 set in each tractor as I have never seen a photo of any radio aerials on them!!

[Jon Skagfeld]

Originally posted by Garry Shipton
A battrey consists of four 25 pounders.Now when the FOO artillery spotter radios coordinates back to the battery,who did he send the info to,and how did this person coordiate the shoot to the four guns? Did each FAT have it's own 19 set in each tractor as I have never seen a photo of any radio aerials on them!!

Garry: Quickie response, without looking up any reference material, but going from (feeble) memory from Blackburn's Artillery trilogy...FOO radioed back to a single gun in the battery. That gun did ranging shots, upon which the other guns took up their appropriate aiming positions. Battery fire then commenced.

[John McGillivray]

Garry, a Battery consisted of eight 25pdr guns divided into two four gun troops. The FOO was the troop commander (a Captain). He would be seldom seen on the gun position because he would be forward, attached to an infantry company or a tank squadron. The FOO would send his fire orders back to the Gun Position Officer (a Lt), who would be commanding the gun position. The GPO has sigs and Arty Techs under his command. The Arty techs take the target info from the FOO and convert it into data for the guns. The other officer in the troop is the Troop Leader. He commands the Recce party which locate possible gun positions and made the primarily survey. He also commands the troop during any move between gun positions. During a move the GPO is in his command vehicle with the sigs and techs. His job is just to know where the troop is on the map at any given moment, in case a fire mission is called down by the FOO during the move, and a Quick Action (or Crash Action in WWII) is required.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Mark W. Tonner
These FATs may belong to 1 RCHA (their AoS Serial was '42') who where part of the Canadian Army parade in Amsterdam on 28 Jun 45.

Hi Mark, thanks for the info.

Here's another pic, taken during the liberation parade at the Vijzelstraat on 29 June 1945. Looks like the same tractors "B1" and "B2", pictured from the right this time (source: hab3045.nl).

[Jan Mostek]

This picture of CMP FAT was taken in Prague, Czechoslovakia in late May 1945. The vehicles belongs to the Czech Armored Brigade and are prepared for the military parade in streets of liberated Prague.
If somebody is interested in the "today" picture of this area, just le me know, I would do that.




Here is another picture from my archive. Again, Czechoslovak unit, reportedly UK, before landind in France, Summer 1944.



Jan Mostek, Prague, Czech Republic

[Pete Ashby]

Jan

this is interesting as I had up to this point in time been led to believe that both Czech and Polish forces were supplied with withdrawn 11 and 12 cab CMP's for use in the ETO thanks for sharing these photos

regards

Pete

[Jan Mostek]

Hi Peter,
as soon as I could go through my archive (perhaps during the weekend) I will scan down some more pictures of CMPs used by Czechs during WW II, there are some more No. 13 cabs, mostly 30 cwt Bofors gun tractors and and 25pdr FAT. And after the war a lot of CMPs with No. 13 cabs went to Czechoslovakia under UNRRA support, some of which survived till today.
Cheers and thaks for comments,
Jan.

[Barry Churcher]

Jan, thank you for the posting on the CMP's. I knew that the Czechs used these trucks but I didn't know to what extent. My son in law is Czech and now maybe I can get him more interested in my junk. He likes to drive my DAF so maybe it's time I gave him the FAT or some other CMP and let him restore it. Thanks for the info and keep it coming. I will be able to ambush him with your photos, when he gets home from Florida.
Cheers,
Barry

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Jan Mostek
I am it seems that I am not able to add any atachment, sorry...

Jan, it turned out you were able to attach a picture after all. It is the same one as posted earlier by Les Freathy. Was that your intention? If not let me know and I'll change it for the correct one.

Thanks,
Hanno

[Jan Mostek]

Hanno,
my problem is that being a new on the Forum I am still not acquainted with all software functions. In this particular case I did not know how to make a link with some older post (picture) to be able to show what I am speaking about.
Anyway, as I promissed, I´ll have more pictures to this topic during the weekend when I ahve time to scan it down and adjust it a little bit in Photoshop. Maybe the CMPs in Czech hands would deserve a sole thread.
Jan.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Jan Mostek
my problem is that being a new on the Forum I am still not acquainted with all software functions. In this particular case I did not know how to make a link with some older post (picture) to be able to show what I am speaking about.
Anyway, as I promissed, I´ll have more pictures to this topic during the weekend when I ahve time to scan it down and adjust it a little bit in Photoshop. Maybe the CMPs in Czech hands would deserve a sole thread.

Never mind Jan, we're here to help you to learn how to use this forum.

And yes, Czech CMPs are definately worth their own thread!

Thanks,
Hanno

[Les Freathy]

A couple more FATs the first with a 17pdr anti tank gun

next a display so it says on the back in Athens Greece,do you recognize the arena Fyll

[T. Metsovitis]

Wow! Where did you find that one Les? I’m amazed!

The place is the old Olympic stadium where the first modern Olympic games were held at the end of the 19th century. The picture could be from a display put on by the Greek forces which returned from Italy after the liberation in 1944. Alternatively it could be a propaganda event during the civil war. If you look there’s a bren carrier in the background.
I’d love to be able to take a closer look at the markings; they’d tell me more about the approximate date. Do you have the picture in higher res? Are there any more from the same event?
Fyll