British Empire Staff Cars

[Keith Brooker]

This is my 1938 Humber Pullman we just bought it two weeks ago. It Given to the services or Requisitioned and was used in WW2 as a staff car and came out of the services in 1946. The RAF, Army and Navy used these Humbers and i think the US Army had some. I think my Humber was used by the Royal Navy as it was dark blue then and reg in Exeter for most of its life untill 1978. was used in Agatha Christies film Appointment with Death by that time is painted Army Green. There is a photo of one with reg number RAF 181850 in the book British Cars of the 1940s-1946 by Bart H.Vanderveen. the number on the my Humber was taken from an open top Humber for the film.

[Mike Kelly]

Originally Posted by Keith Brooker

This is my 1938 Humber Pullman we just bought it two weeks ago.

Keith

So you will be looking for some 9.00-13 tyres then.... you will have to join the queue of tyre hopefulls .

Mike

[Bill Murray]

Hi David:

I can't claim any great knowledge of obscure British makes, but I think there is a chance your small postwar photo is a 1939-1940 Sunbeam-Talbot.

There is a very poor photo of such a six light saloon in Vanderveen's book "British Cars of the Late 1930's" that I don't think will scan well but I may try later.

In the meantime, here is a photo of a four light version of the car.
Cheers
Bill

[sapper740]

Originally Posted by Lang

I don't think I put up a photo of my 1940 Dodge staff car whch we drove from Aqabah, Jordan to Normandy a few years ago.

Which border crossing did you use to leave Jordan and how thoroughly did the Israelis, if you drove through Israel, search your car? Reason I ask is I wonder if your experiences driving in and out of Jordan were similar to mine. During my U.N. leave I visited Jordan and entered at the Jordan River border crossing near Bet She'an and recrossed from Aqaba to Eilat. Before I could reenter Israel the Israelis insisted on searching my truck from top to bottom, even removing the tires from the rims. Apparently that was a popular dodge for Palestinians to smuggle explosives into the country. They kept me waiting for nearly 2 hours during this process which annoyed me to no end. I kept my tongue during the search, something I didn't always do with the Israelis as they can be a very annoying people. They can be very pushy and obnoxious at times. If you got a minute I'll tell you an amusing story of a time when I finally had enough of Israeli attitude and let one have it. In Eilat there is a movie theatre for tourists where they show a presentation of the natural wonders of Israel and the Red Sea. The soundtrack is in Hebrew so they have earphones on the sides of the seats for Anglophones. My pair were missing so I politely asked one of the ushers, a pretty young lady, if she could get me a pair, please. Well, she spun on her heel and spat back at me:

"SCHWAY! SCHWAY! GIVE ME A MINUTE AND I"LL GET YOU A PAIR!!!! SCHWAY!!!!

Unfortunately, the young lady picked a moment when I had truly had my fill of pushy, obnoxious Israelis so I jumped up, turned my camcorder on and pointed it at her and yelled at the top of my lungs (when I'm pissed I've got a voice that'll make a parade square Sargeant Major shake in his boots)

"COULD YOU REPEAT THAT PLEASE SO I CAN SHOW EVERYBODY BACK IN CANADA HOW RUDE YOU PEOPLE ARE!!!!!"

The usher took off at a run...I never saw her again but an obviously embarrassed pair of Israelis sitting next to me sheepishly said, "We speak Hebrew so we don't need ours, you can have them."

It was a very interesting show.

Derek.

P.S., if you did drive North through Israel, is the:
ANGER INKHOLES
sign still on the side of the highway just south of the Dead Sea?

[Keith Brooker]

Yes i am looking for 900-13 tyres. Played the Agatha Christie film that it was in last night, must be some of the stars DNA left in the car.Peter Ustinov, Lauren Bacall and Sir Jhon Gielgud. Have been ripping out the old floor [ Wood ] to put a new one back in looks a bit like a Flintstones car. Have found the photo from the British Cars of the Early Forties 1940 - 1946 by Bart H.Vanderveen. Good book.

[Rich Payne]

The Humbers are certainly fine looking cars.

This picture is an IWM image taken from Gavin Birch's "Motorcycles at War"

Is it a Snipe Mk2 ? Definitely a BSA M20 in the foreground and I think a Beaverette bringing up the rear.

Formation sign looks to be the bulldog of Eastern Command although facing the opposite direction from the only illustration that I have.

[Richard Farrant]

Originally Posted by Rich Payne

The Humbers are certainly fine looking cars.
Is it a Snipe Mk2 ?

Rich,

That looks like a Humber Pullman and from the high rank of the officer, that would figure. They had a taller windscreen and longer body, also, the bumper is not the basic "angle iron" version as used on the Snipe Mk2.

I am rebuilding a Snipe staff car at present time

[Rich Payne]

Thanks Richard. I've found the correct page in Vanderveen now ! Did the Pullmans also change from a split to a one-piece screen ?

[Keith Brooker]

I think all the war time Pullmans had a one piece screen. i dont see many with a split screen after 1937.

[Richard Farrant]

Originally Posted by Keith Brooker

I think all the war time Pullmans had a one piece screen. i dont see many with a split screen after 1937.

Hi Keith,

I am pretty certain you are correct there.

I have a brand new, old stock windscreen complete with glass and rubber surround for a wartime Pullman, if any one is interested.

[Lang]

Derek,

Without putting too fine a point on it I concur with your Israeli comments.

We drove due north, took 10 minutes to clear the border post from Jordan into Syria and could not have had a better reception. We were nearly run off the road a couple of times by people hanging out the car window yelling "Welcome to Syria" and taking photos on their mobile phones. So much for the Axis of Evil!

Lang

[Keith Webb]

Originally Posted by lynx42

Here is my 1940 Chev. I found it in a hayshed in Western Victoria. Enquiries through the Australian War Memorial in Canberra prove that it was General Stanley Savige's Staff car throughout the Middle East, 1940/41. Gen.Savige was the OC of the 17th Brigade, 6th Australian Division. The car arrives back in OZ in April 1942 on the S.S.Somerville and then was used on the North/South road between Alice Springs and Darwin. It was sold to a Mr.Williams of Ararat Vic in 1945, who owned it until 1971 and then sold it to John Woodburn of Dunkeld. I found it in 1993 and purchased it for the grand sum of $2.00. (yes, the decimal point is in the right place). It is now painted in the Syrian Campaign colours 1941 when the 17th Brigade were fighting the Vichy French.

And you can see it in action on the Corowa 07 Year of the cycle and staff car DVD along with an interview with Rick.

[Keith Brooker]

Does any one have a rear photo of a Humber Staff Car?
I did find some 900 x 13 tyres, 2nd hand, but good, off Millweb. bought the last 4 he had. its worth looking on that web site.

[servicepub (RIP)]

I copied these photos from the Canadian Forces Communications and Electronics Museum (formerly Royal Canadian Corps of Signals). Can I get an ID please. I believe that they were taken in 1938. The motorcycles are BSAs.
The markings on the vehicles are "RCS 10x"



This was taken on the same occasion as above.


No information on this other than a date (1938) on the back of the photo.

[cliff]

the bottom photo is of a 1936 Ford.

[Bill Miller]

Can any of you positively ID this car. I am not sure, but from unit War diaries and similar looking (but not exact) vehicles I was able to "google" up I think it is a 1940? French Ford. However, I am sure someone here can say for sure. Thanks,

Bill.

[lynx42]

Sorry Cliff, For once you're wrong. The Ford in the bottom photo is definately a 1935 not a 1935 model. Different grill, wire wheels and I used to own one. (A Delux 4 door touring sedan.)
Regards Rick

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

1. Yes the mystery car was indedd a 1939-40 Sunbeam-Talbot, assembled in Barlby Road, Acton, London W., and probably a 3-Litre.

2. The bottom car I think is one of the 1935 Phaetons [Model 48, so a C48?]: the DND had 1934, 1935 and 1936 Phaetons, and several '36 Models were retained after the mass sell-off in 1938. Here's an extract from the papers:

Lieut. Jolley then drew up a list of all 15-cwt. Trucks or equivalent that were to be replaced by new trucks, traded-in, retained for schools or for instructional purposes. The oldest was a 1928 Model Durant Coach. There was a 1929 Chevrolet LQ stake truck, a 1934 Chevrolet Light Delivery, two Chevrolet pickups and a 1½-ton stake truck, all 1934 Models. There were eight Crossley Staff Cars to be sent to schools, otherwise all others were Fords: 1931 to 1936 Models, 2-ton stake trucks, Station Wagons or Phaetons. Ten 1936 Ford 2-ton trucks were to be retained, to be supplemented by the new 15-cwt. Trucks.

There appears to be several panel vans in rhe line-up. Is that so? It looks like a Ford to me but I have no idea otherwise.

Somewhere I have a list of all the DND numbers of the disposal list but can't find it at the moment, save for these Chevies:

DEPARTMENT OF NATIONAL DEFENCE TRUCKS:
1934 CHEVROLET LIGHT DELIVERY 1-168
1934 CHEVROLET PICKUP 1-174
1934 CHEVROLET PICKUP 1-175
1934 CHEVROLET 1½ TON STAKE 1-180

[Bill Murray]

Mr Miller:

Yes, your Ford photo is a French Matford. Not a 1940 model I think but I will post a photo tomorrow to try to pin it down.

As to Cliff's 1936 Ford, it is in fact a 1935 model.

Bill

[servicepub (RIP)]

More 'staff' cars. This is a misnomer as the cars were often battalion or company level vehicles and were used in a cross-country mode. These were ultimately replaced by the ubiquitous 5-cwt 4x4 (jeep).


Note the cam painted troop carrying bus in the background.


Caption - CWACs undertaking maintenance at CMHQ garage.


Dated 1935-36

Now for something a little earlier;


And for something a little later;


And an ambulance 'cause I couldn't find the right thread. The donor is well known to all of us.

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

Wow!

I wonder if the top bus is one of the ex-Green Line AECs that were used by the US and Canadian forces?

The next one down looks like the East End of London, but I really have no idea.

The third one is the 1934-5-6 Ford phaeton and station wagons, unless there's a 1934 Chevrolet truck in there! I have been looking for a decent shot of these for years!

The next one MIGHT be the 1929 Durant that the DND had that was sold in 1937 I think. Same comments apply!

The Buicks might be 1942 series 90 Limited Model Imperial Sedans. As used by HC Massey et al.

[Les Freathy]

Nice photos Clive, here are a couple of slightly later model station wagons one has a almost identical body to your photo the other has a lot less ribbing both of these are fitted with military floatation tyres
cheers
Les

[Dusonn]

Hello guys,
would anyone dig out a photo of a Standard other then Utility being used as a staff car? I am restoring a Standard Flying 12 limousine as one. I found information in our military archive on Standard 4-seat car in service with the Czechoslovak Independent Armored Brigade in the UK but there are no details. I guess the army used many donated civilian cars at the outbreak of WWII.

Cheers Dusan

[Rob Fast]

I had a non runner 39 Dodge D-13 and gave it a quick paint job this weekend. All I am interested in is a backround/gate guardian vehicle for pics behind my CMP stuff. I like it although it may not sastisfy the purist. I still may do the mickey mouse camoflage scheme. Cheers Rob

[Les Freathy]

Competition time here lads who are the bods in the Ford C11ADF cut down station wagon/ heavy utility
cheers
Les

[Blackpowder44 (RIP)]

My Humber Box.

[RWDiesel]

Hello

Here's a photo of the staffcar belonging to Maj. Gen. A. Bruce Matthew, commander 2nd. Canadian Infantry Division.
The photo was taken 18th. April 1945 outside Groningen townhall after the germans had surrendered, the General visited the Major of Groningen.
I would like to know what kind of car this is.

http://img94.imageshack.us/i/bruceu.jpg
http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/1662/bruceu.th.jpg

Cheers Ronald

[Bill Murray]

Hi Ronald:

Your Staff Car is a 1942 Plymouth.
Bill

[Grant Bowker]

see the link for more info
http://www.rmauctions.com/FeatureCar...rID=r119&fc=0#
Sold August 2009 for $US71,500. So that's what the market thought one car was worth on that date.

[Keith Webb]

Apart from a CMP that would have to be one of the most beautiful things on four wheels.

Source