MLU FORUM  

Go Back   MLU FORUM > MILITARY VEHICLES > The Softskin Forum

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 13-02-16, 17:47
Hanno Spoelstra's Avatar
Hanno Spoelstra Hanno Spoelstra is offline
MLU Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 14,400
Default Truck, 15-cwt, 4x2, A.A.

This thread is to gather information about the Truck, 15-cwt, 4x2, A.A.


From: http://bcoy1cpb.pacdat.net/20_mm_aa_guns.htm

Page from British Data Book (reprint) showing the CMP portee with gun mount, but no gun.

Click image for larger version

Name:	20mm_CMP_15_Cwt_AA_Data_Book_of_Wheeled_Vehcile_1945.jpg
Views:	34
Size:	139.9 KB
ID:	79687

Page from the AEDB Design Record showing a Canadian Military Pattern 20mm AA 15 Cwt Cab 13 truck under test (thus the "EE" on the door) probably the prototype:

Click image for larger version

Name:	20mm_AA_CMP_F15_-_DESIGN_RECORD_1945_Vol_5_p_86.jpg
Views:	29
Size:	102.9 KB
ID:	79688

A 20mm gun mounted on a Universal Mounting on the back of a CMP 15 Cwt, War Department number Z 5194984. Photo - Andy Morgan

Click image for larger version

Name:	20mm_on_CMP_Z5194984_WindscreenV4N2.jpg
Views:	27
Size:	81.0 KB
ID:	79690

A 20mm gun, possibly the same one as shown above, shown deployed on the ground. Photo - Andy Morgan

Click image for larger version

Name:	20mm_deployed_army_Brit_single_gun_WindscreenV4N2.jpg
Views:	17
Size:	120.0 KB
ID:	79691
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 13-02-16, 17:56
Hanno Spoelstra's Avatar
Hanno Spoelstra Hanno Spoelstra is offline
MLU Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 14,400
Default

Pictures of the single 4x4 prototype - production models were on 4x2 C15, F15 and Bedford MW chassis only.

Click image for larger version

Name:	12694816_10153862352035729_1033970476623718254_o.jpg
Views:	37
Size:	54.8 KB
ID:	79693 Click image for larger version

Name:	12715985_10153862351820729_2636714540860479631_o.jpg
Views:	36
Size:	66.2 KB
ID:	79694 Click image for larger version

Name:	12715983_10153862351655729_2183016960136936551_o.jpg
Views:	38
Size:	77.2 KB
ID:	79695
Click image for larger version

Name:	12672195_10153862350910729_4086219392145223771_o.jpg
Views:	39
Size:	65.8 KB
ID:	79696 Click image for larger version

Name:	10321158_10153862350555729_4143133537710586526_o.jpg
Views:	29
Size:	56.6 KB
ID:	79697

Pictures courtesy of Clive Law.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 13-02-16, 17:58
Hanno Spoelstra's Avatar
Hanno Spoelstra Hanno Spoelstra is offline
MLU Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 14,400
Default

Details of Body 2L1.

Click image for larger version

Name:	12733656_10153862353435729_3070176030667841633_n.jpg
Views:	37
Size:	74.5 KB
ID:	79700 Click image for larger version

Name:	12742534_10153862349695729_156239059939338173_n.jpg
Views:	37
Size:	76.8 KB
ID:	79698 Click image for larger version

Name:	12710885_10153862351335729_4629405519689596042_o.jpg
Views:	28
Size:	71.2 KB
ID:	79699

Pictures courtesy of Clive Law.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 13-02-16, 17:59
Hanno Spoelstra's Avatar
Hanno Spoelstra Hanno Spoelstra is offline
MLU Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 14,400
Default

Deploying the gun:

Click image for larger version

Name:	12694851_10153862351105729_8057378524489201281_o.jpg
Views:	29
Size:	66.0 KB
ID:	79701 Click image for larger version

Name:	12718281_10153862350350729_8268133309202619060_n.jpg
Views:	30
Size:	80.9 KB
ID:	79702 Click image for larger version

Name:	12697288_10153862350075729_121348409840776478_o.jpg
Views:	31
Size:	66.3 KB
ID:	79703

Pictures courtesy of Clive Law.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 13-02-16, 18:02
Hanno Spoelstra's Avatar
Hanno Spoelstra Hanno Spoelstra is offline
MLU Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 14,400
Default

See Unique 1943 Canadian Ford F15(AA) for pictures of the only restored example in the world.

Click image for larger version

Name:	0432.JPG
Views:	41
Size:	54.6 KB
ID:	79704
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 13-02-16, 18:02
Hanno Spoelstra's Avatar
Hanno Spoelstra Hanno Spoelstra is offline
MLU Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 14,400
Default

See C15 4x2 for pictures of an unrestored and still very original C15, albeit without the Polsten gun.

Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 13-02-16, 18:12
Hanno Spoelstra's Avatar
Hanno Spoelstra Hanno Spoelstra is offline
MLU Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 14,400
Default

They were used operationally in NW Europe, although after the Allies gained air superiority, the trucks were relegated to other duties.

Pic below was taken on 08 Jun 1944 On a Normandy beach. Reportedly the unit which used them was the 15th (Isle of Man) Light Anti-Aircraft Regiment.

Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 13-02-16, 18:18
Hanno Spoelstra's Avatar
Hanno Spoelstra Hanno Spoelstra is offline
MLU Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 14,400
Default

Bedford MW version of this truck:

Click image for larger version

Name:	pounds0021.jpg
Views:	17
Size:	76.3 KB
ID:	79705
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 20-02-16, 23:06
John A. Rippingham John A. Rippingham is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Stockport
Posts: 149
Default Bedford 20mm

Hello Hanno,

I can add a little information about the Bedford variant, for what it's worth. There were only 250 made. I found this photocopy in the box of Bedford contract cards at bovington tank museum.

Click image for larger version

Name:	20mm polston. 002.jpg
Views:	35
Size:	107.5 KB
ID:	79828

Does anyone know what book this came from and does anyone have a copy?

and the contract card for 200.

Click image for larger version

Name:	bedford S2738 & V4841 FRONT.jpg
Views:	36
Size:	116.8 KB
ID:	79829

Last edited by John A. Rippingham; 20-02-16 at 23:13.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 18-12-18, 04:32
Jordan Baker's Avatar
Jordan Baker Jordan Baker is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 4,000
Default

At the 1:40 mark.

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/i...ect/1060019646


At the 1:18 mark

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/i...ect/1060019647
__________________
Jordan Baker
RHLI Museum,
Otter LRC
C15A-Wire3, 1944
Willys MB, 1942
10cwt Canadian trailer

Last edited by Jordan Baker; 18-12-18 at 05:10.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 18-12-18, 10:28
Hanno Spoelstra's Avatar
Hanno Spoelstra Hanno Spoelstra is offline
MLU Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 14,400
Default

Great find, Jordan - thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordan Baker View Post
At the 1:40 mark. https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/i...ect/1060019646

Click image for larger version

Name:	IWM A70 107-8_4x2 AA truck.jpg
Views:	8
Size:	94.5 KB
ID:	104150
"A 119th LAA Regiment RA Morris Bofors self-propelled gun leads a column of troop-carrying CMP trucks through the deserted and derelict town of Caumont."

Quote:
At the 1:18 mark https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/i...ect/1060019647
Click image for larger version

Name:	IWM A70 107-9_4x2 AA truck.jpg
Views:	17
Size:	107.5 KB
ID:	104151
"A Morris Bofors self-propelled gun and two Canadian military-pattern tracks armed with Oerlikon 20mm cannons, all probably from 119th LAA Regiment RA, drive through the ruined town of Caumont followed by other 8th Corps military traffic."

Both these films were shot at the same location and they both show the same pair of 4x2 AA trucks.

This is new footage to me and the first time I saw them actually moving!
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 19-12-18, 23:16
Keith Orpin Keith Orpin is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Oxford,UK
Posts: 360
Default

Thanks Jordan,
As Hanno said, it's the first time I have seen these rare conversions actually on the move, both of them are Ford F15's, towing 10 cwt trailers
Great find
Keith
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 09-08-19, 22:23
Steve Guthrie's Avatar
Steve Guthrie Steve Guthrie is offline
Greybeard Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Peterborough, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 281
Default 20mm Portee in use in Italy

A C15A chassis by the look of it. Hanno thinks the body and gun were transferred from a 4x2 chassis. Canadian Army Photo

Click image for larger version

Name:	25233.jpg
Views:	24
Size:	685.5 KB
ID:	108520
__________________
WW2 Canadian Army Vehicle
Camouflage and Markings
http://milifax2003.tripod.com/home03.htm
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 10-08-19, 00:07
Jordan Baker's Avatar
Jordan Baker Jordan Baker is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 4,000
Default

The platform is different. Check out the are above the wheels.
__________________
Jordan Baker
RHLI Museum,
Otter LRC
C15A-Wire3, 1944
Willys MB, 1942
10cwt Canadian trailer
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 10-08-19, 00:22
Hanno Spoelstra's Avatar
Hanno Spoelstra Hanno Spoelstra is offline
MLU Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 14,400
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Guthrie View Post
A C15A chassis by the look of it. Hanno thinks the body and gun were transferred from a 4x2 chassis. Canadian Army Photo
Thanks Steve. Actually, after looking at it again, I see a cut-down and modified steel 15-cwt body. Probably a 2C1.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 25-09-20, 23:19
Hanno Spoelstra's Avatar
Hanno Spoelstra Hanno Spoelstra is offline
MLU Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 14,400
Default Bedford MW

Quote:
Originally Posted by John A. Rippingham View Post
I can add a little information about the Bedford variant, for what it's worth. There were only 250 made. I found this photocopy in the box of Bedford contract cards at bovington tank museum.
John, thanks for that.

Here is a great picture of the production version of the Bedford MW "Polsten" AA truck.

If I read it correctly it's WD census number is Z5194317.

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_9993.jpg
Views:	20
Size:	428.6 KB
ID:	116349 Click image for larger version

Name:	91252725_1512575322252821_8294102682080116736_n.jpg
Views:	19
Size:	58.7 KB
ID:	116404

Last edited by Hanno Spoelstra; 29-09-20 at 11:23. Reason: Edited to add 2nd picture
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 27-09-20, 16:11
Hanno Spoelstra's Avatar
Hanno Spoelstra Hanno Spoelstra is offline
MLU Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 14,400
Default MWC water tanker chassis?

Quote:
Originally Posted by John A. Rippingham View Post
and the contract card for 200.
Hello John,

Do I understand correctly the chassis + cabs for the 20-mm AA trucks were based on MWC water tanker chassis? (The bodies were fitted by outside contractors.)

Click image for larger version

Name:	bedford S2738 & V4841 FRONT_redlined.jpg
Views:	3
Size:	219.1 KB
ID:	116368
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 27-09-20, 20:07
Preston Isaac Preston Isaac is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: North Devon
Posts: 6
Default A Windsor Carrier ?

At the start of Jordan Baker's video there is what looks like a Windsor with its canvas up ? If so quite unusual to see an action photo of a Windsor, especially with the canvas up.
Preston Isaac

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordan Baker View Post
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 27-09-20, 21:18
Hanno Spoelstra's Avatar
Hanno Spoelstra Hanno Spoelstra is offline
MLU Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 14,400
Default Carrier with canvas

Quote:
Originally Posted by Preston Isaac View Post
At the start of Jordan Baker's video there is what looks like a Windsor with its canvas up ? If so quite unusual to see an action photo of a Windsor, especially with the canvas up.
Hello Preston,

Nice catch! I think is a Universal Carrier, though. IIRC Windsors were not used yet on 1944-07-31 when this footage was shot. Anyhow, it is rare to see a Carrier with a canvas tilt!

Click image for larger version

Name:	IWM A70 107-8-screenshot.jpg
Views:	6
Size:	123.9 KB
ID:	116386
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 29-09-20, 10:24
Preston Isaac Preston Isaac is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: North Devon
Posts: 6
Default Carrier with canvas

Hi Hanno, Sadly I think you are correct. I was carried away (forgive the pun) with the overall look of the canvas and the hoops. Many thanks Preston.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 10-10-20, 22:04
Keith Orpin Keith Orpin is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Oxford,UK
Posts: 360
Default

Hi Hanno,
Cracking pictures of the 15 cwt Bedford AA mount. Interesting to note the "Mickey mouse " camouflage scheme , and the additional lockers above the two upright lockers, which housed the .303 rounds.
Thanks for posting
Keith
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 10-10-20, 22:45
Lynn Eades Lynn Eades is offline
Bluebell
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Tauranga, New Zealand
Posts: 5,534
Default

.303 rounds? or 20mm Keith? Polsten being a simplified Oerlikon, but both being a 20mm cannon (auto)
__________________
Bluebell

Carrier Armoured O.P. No1 Mk3 W. T84991
Carrier Bren No2.Mk.I. NewZealand Railways. NZR.6.
Dodge WC55. 37mm Gun Motor Carriage M6
Jeep Mb #135668
So many questions....
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 11-10-20, 22:07
Keith Orpin Keith Orpin is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Oxford,UK
Posts: 360
Default

Hi Lynn,
The upright lockers contained the 303 rounds, and the horizontal lockers contained the 4 off 20mm loaded snail drums, 60 rounds per drum.
The 10 cwt towed trailer had the rest of the ammo in (600 rounds of 20mm ammo and 746 rounds of 303 ammo) plus the crew kit etc. Bear in mind the crew had a Bren gun and probably a 303 rifle each.
I'm not sure I would want to be towing this trailer about with all this ammo on board !
Best regards
Keith
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 28-09-21, 23:13
Wolfy Wolfy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 17
Default

3 more CMP Polsten carriers.
Attached Thumbnails
49837712753_7312b9a3b4_o.jpg   49838260616_1946a08404_o.jpg   49838558302_f7b619a4b9_o.jpg  
__________________
Willys Jeep 1942
Austin Tilly 1943
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 29-09-21, 00:14
Alex van de Wetering Alex van de Wetering is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Hoofddorp, The Netherlands
Posts: 2,670
Default

Thanks for sharing these, Wolfy. These large format pictures are a nice addition to the thread

Alex
__________________
Chevrolet C8 cab 11 FFW
BSA Folding Bicycle

Last edited by Alex van de Wetering; 29-09-21 at 00:24.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 20-11-21, 20:55
Wolfy Wolfy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 17
Default

and the much less well known Fordson WOT 2 variant -
Attached Thumbnails
Fordson Polsten AA  July 44.JPG  
__________________
Willys Jeep 1942
Austin Tilly 1943
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 12-12-21, 12:07
Hanno Spoelstra's Avatar
Hanno Spoelstra Hanno Spoelstra is offline
MLU Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 14,400
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfy View Post
and the much less well known Fordson WOT 2 variant -
Great find, Carleton!
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 12-12-21, 12:13
Hanno Spoelstra's Avatar
Hanno Spoelstra Hanno Spoelstra is offline
MLU Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 14,400
Default

Another great find by Niels Vegger: https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/i...ect/1060008447

“II. Large numbers of Fordson fifteen-hundredweight trucks, Morris light utility cars and Canadian military-pattern trailer tractors (sic) are stored alongside a branch of the Great Western Railway at No 55 Vehicle Reserve Depot, Little Stretton, Shropshire.”

Screenshots of above footage attached here:

Click image for larger version

Name:	IWM A70 20-2_1.jpg
Views:	16
Size:	116.8 KB
ID:	126485 Click image for larger version

Name:	IWM A70 20-2_2.jpg
Views:	28
Size:	126.6 KB
ID:	126486 Click image for larger version

Name:	IWM A70 20-2_3.jpg
Views:	16
Size:	115.5 KB
ID:	126487
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 18-12-21, 23:07
Keith Orpin Keith Orpin is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Oxford,UK
Posts: 360
Default

Agree with Hanno, great find
What's interesting is the partial use of camouflage on the locker system, which housed the snail drums and .303 rounds.
Question is, what type of camo was this ( bearing in mind this was early 44, could it be foliage ?), and why was this only on the locker system, and not the rest of the CMP.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 01-01-22, 12:37
Alan McGuinness Alan McGuinness is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: England
Posts: 100
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfy View Post
and the much less well known Fordson WOT 2 variant -
IWM photo H39753: https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/i...ject/205511241
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Who Can Id this truck? Phil Waterman The Softskin Forum 27 29-06-15 15:47
Having Fun and new truck Wpns 421 Post-war Military Vehicles 20 12-02-11 14:18
FWD WW1 truck Wayne Henderson The Softskin Forum 3 27-01-06 20:18
GMC 453 4x2 truck Hanno Spoelstra The Softskin Forum 2 23-01-05 00:04
What Truck is this? Kuno The Softskin Forum 0 26-02-04 16:05


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 19:48.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Maple Leaf Up, 2003-2016