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  #31  
Old 16-11-19, 06:44
maple_leaf_eh maple_leaf_eh is offline
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The Mountain Stove was part of the toboggan check list as I remember. There was a lantern, a two-burner stove, AND a mountain stove for the tent groups. I had a really good experience with those little blast-furnaces. The Coleman PEAK stove is a very close equivalent.
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  #32  
Old 17-11-19, 03:33
Ed Storey Ed Storey is offline
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Default GPMG Toboggan Mounting

I was at the CWM on Remembrance Day and photographed this GPMG mounting for the forum.

IMG_1293 2.pdf
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  #33  
Old 17-11-19, 05:03
rob love rob love is offline
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Ed


Your of the photo seems to have failed.
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  #34  
Old 17-11-19, 12:07
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Ed it is a great picture but in a pdf, can we change that format and rotate it and watermark it for you?
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  #35  
Old 17-11-19, 14:00
Ed Storey Ed Storey is offline
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I have been experiencing technical difficulties at my end and am trying to work them out.
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  #36  
Old 17-11-19, 16:41
Ed Storey Ed Storey is offline
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Default GPMG Toboggan Mounting

I believe I have worked out the problem, here is the photo I took in the CWM. It is a pretty slick looking set-up.

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  #37  
Old 17-11-19, 17:09
rob love rob love is offline
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They look even better on a toboggan. The downside is that the toboggan now becomes part of your defensive position. While the GPMG does not have a lot of kick, it still doesn't seem like the most stable mount.

Best not to have your defensive position on a hill I guess.
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  #38  
Old 17-11-19, 18:34
Ed Storey Ed Storey is offline
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Default Toboggan Load and GPMG Images

I have pulled these two images from my archives. The toboggan loads were generally a suggestion as the contents evolved over time as new items were introduced and older items withdrawn. The toboggan loads were also dependant on what items were available in unit QM and if the troops using them were mounted or dismounted.

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  #39  
Old 17-11-19, 18:45
rob love rob love is offline
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Great photos Ed, sure brings back memories.

They must be fairly early.....I am guessing the 60s or early 70s? The 50 cal can is one of the old side opening type, and is that a coleman speedmaster 500 in the photo?
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  #40  
Old 17-11-19, 19:02
Ed Storey Ed Storey is offline
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Default Photographs

Both photographs date from 1971.
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  #41  
Old 17-11-19, 20:03
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So, the snow knife and saw kit arrived this past week.

Wow, how big and heavy it is. The blades are easily 1/8" of an inch thick. The handle on the saw is huge and for an obvious reason, you might be wearing arctic mittens.

The knife is a meaty weapon reminding me of the machette in the Ferret kit. The file to sharpen them both has a gorgeous synthetic handle.

I find it interesting that there are no makers marks on the sheath / scabbard material at all and the file appears too long for the pocket for the press stud to close.

Both the knife and the saw teeth are worthy of a being used for field surgery in an improvised situation. Lethal.

The blades have a stamped letter and number that I didnt capture very well.
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snow knife 06.jpeg   snow knife 05.jpeg   snow knife 03.jpg   snow knife 04.jpeg  
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  #42  
Old 17-11-19, 20:51
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I am not certain your file would have been the correct one back in the day. Prior to the mid 90s, you ordered just about everything from the depot, where the model and makers were failry tightly controlled to match the NSN. Around then, the military devolved the purchasing of most common items to the bases and units, so you could end up with any supplier, (and often the cheapest imaginable) and often the wrong items. After all, a file is a file is a file, isn't it?


I recall one time ordering the NSN for the wooden case that the taps and dies came in. Instead I got a die to cut the acme thread onto wood. It did come in handy to repair broken broomsticks for the shop brooms.


I have many many more horror stories about the wrong items coming in, but will save them for another thread someday in the future.
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  #43  
Old 17-11-19, 21:39
Ed Storey Ed Storey is offline
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Default Snow Equipment Set

This is a copy of a catalogue photograph from my archives and it shows the Snow Equipment Set circa 1970. Note that in this case the file was a three-sided type.

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  #44  
Old 17-11-19, 21:53
Ed Storey Ed Storey is offline
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Default Toboggan Load

To illustrate just how the toboggan load can vary according to time period, environmental concerns and equipment held in a unit QM, I have attached this reference photograph taken in 2010.

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  #45  
Old 17-11-19, 22:09
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While the black jerry can of water may well do in Southern Ontario, it would serve very little purpose here in Shilo. After a day or two, it would only be good to lay in front of that GPMG mount for it's bullet stopping capabilities.



The tin cans in the first set of photos were for bringing in snow to melt. Although time consuming, it is usually fairly abundant if you are using the toboggan. Ice is better, but if said ice is locked within a jerry can, then it is just dead weight.



The collapsible blue bag toilets are definitely a product of the environmentalists. It seemed like most of the rations were in tomatoe sauce, and what goes in must come out. There was nothing like getting onto one of those just in hte nick of time, only to have one side of it start sinking into the snow.



As to the fire extinguisher, it was always my understanding that when those tents went up, it was with extreme speed. I'm not sure there would have been ample time to use the extinguisher.



You can see the local purchase stuff has entered the system. Both axes are different (I think a fiberglass handle on the one), the snow saw is commercial, and even the small pack looks like it is an aftermarket surplus look-a-like.



What is in the green bag to the front. Would it be a pot-set?
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  #46  
Old 18-11-19, 00:11
James P James P is offline
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Jerry can for water - ditch
Fire extinguisher - ditch
Potty chair - ditch
Glass globe on lantern - ditch

Pack more naptha cans, then pack MORE naptha.

The bag would ( I am guessing and working from experiance(s) all the little things like TP, generators, slip joint pliers, flat tip screw driver, space blankets, gun tape/para cord, candles, etc
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  #47  
Old 18-11-19, 00:14
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So a comment here. I have been privvy to watching troops in the field conduct winter indoctrination training and I have to say it is a miracle that no one ever got killed or seriously maimed with the axe. Honest to goodness a good bow saw did so much more work cutting material for snow defences and improvised shelters it just wasn't funny and with much less expenditure of effort. Axes bouncing off frozen springy wood and glancing blow beside feet made me wince.

I know with the Militia toboggans the bow saw was a unit local purchase and so it doesn't surprise me to see it omitted here.

No pictures so far of the cardboard ice boxes and the inserts to replace the jerry cans of water.

And Rob, I agree, tents go up faster than troops can deploy an extinguisher. A snow shovel wielded by a fit and accurate member is faster and more effective.
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  #48  
Old 18-11-19, 02:14
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The ice boxes were for defensive positions, not for bringing ice to the field.



Funny story about burning tents. When in Kandahar, the fire inspector would get onto us for having plywood in the tents, declaring them fire hazards. Some guys would use it rather than the canvas dividers that originally came with the structure. We each were in a 8x9 room/cubicle. Anyway, the nearby "old Canada house" caught fire one day, apparently from an old coffee pot. The tent burned down in minutes, and all that remained you ask? The plywood sub-structures within the tent, much of which was barely singed.



That said, I heard of a soldier who decided to ride out the fire in a 10 man tent. He reportedly suffered severe burns to his back. Of course, back then the combats were nylon which did not help matters.
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  #49  
Old 18-11-19, 02:31
Darrell Zinck Darrell Zinck is offline
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Hi Rob

Yes, they were for snow defences.....and for hauling drinking water to the field. The ice boxes were for drinking water. The jerry can was in our toboggan too but that came into the tent so we had wash water. When available this set up was perpetuated throughout my career. Armoured thing?

I'll try and get some pics of them.

Here's the FE we used. Low temp. Worked well on erratic Coleman Stoves when idiots were involved.

regards
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  #50  
Old 18-11-19, 02:43
rob love rob love is offline
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The best thing I found for the coleman stoves was to use one of the propane trigger torches on the stove's generator to preheat it before lighting. It prevented the sometimes disastrous initial lighting of the stove....you instantly had the blue flame. The propane torch could also be used to heat the intake manifold of the skidoos so they would start in the arctic conditions. But the problem with propane is that it does not vaporize at temps below -35. In those cases, I remember having to pre-heat the propane torch on the coleman stove, put it into my parka, and then I could pre-heat the skidoo.



I cannot say I miss those days.
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  #51  
Old 18-11-19, 03:07
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^ Generator or warming the burner ? Pumping up the stoves tank and then spraying the burner wet (not a crazy amount) light the fuel and let it heat the burner, stick the tank back on and open the valve works great to get a cold stove producing BTUs. The Brits had some diesel fuel stove that must have been invented by a burn care doctor, the Coleman works like a champ compared to it.
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  #52  
Old 18-11-19, 03:24
maple_leaf_eh maple_leaf_eh is offline
Terry Warner
 
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Someone mentioned billy cans for melting snow.

The usual source were the largest tin cans from the kitchen with a wire bale. No NSN or common pattern, just to disappoint the rivet counters.

But, a large can you can afford to singe or scalp is better than the issue aluminum pot set. They are durable, but a bear to clean. BTW, snow does burn and it stinks.
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74-????? M151A2 plated and on the road
70-08876 M38A1 ready for the road
53-71233 M100CDN trailer manufactured by MCI ready for the road

Wow! All three green beasties run!
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  #53  
Old 18-11-19, 05:06
rob love rob love is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James P View Post
^ Generator or warming the burner ? Pumping up the stoves tank and then spraying the burner wet (not a crazy amount) light the fuel and let it heat the burner, stick the tank back on and open the valve works great to get a cold stove producing BTUs.

The part that had to be hot was the tube running over the burner in order to vaporize the fuel. And yes, most of the time you were good lighting it the way you describe. But some of the time you weren't.....that tube (the generator) had to be hot.
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  #54  
Old 18-11-19, 08:09
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Rob the ice boxes I saw were a rectangular block and about 18" X 5" X 5"

is that the same as what you are talking about?
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  #55  
Old 18-11-19, 14:26
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Never saw Rangers in the north heat the generator (not saying some never did, just I never saw that practice) but heating the burner with a wee bit of naptha worked every time.
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  #56  
Old 18-11-19, 14:51
rob love rob love is offline
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The Rangers I did a SovOp with were astounded by the amount of fuel we used. They also did not like our skidoos, they ran nothing but Japanese machines. Those guys did not waste.



The torch was unique to my situation as a mechanic. It was there to preheat things, so got used on the stoves as well. But normally, back in my MRT, I used electricity or a fuel fired heater to heat water and rations. Naptha would stink up what was my workplace, my bedroom, my kitchen, my shower room....
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  #57  
Old 25-11-19, 04:43
Darrell Zinck Darrell Zinck is offline
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Hi Robin

So I found a box but not a bag.

The box is 18x6x6in. Instructions to tape ends, insert bag, fill to mark and seal bag and other end. "2 Gals" on the inside.

Looking up the nsn I see the box is just box, cargo. Generic build. The bag is listed as a feature for "fresh water supply for the north".

I do remember making snow defences with them but that wasn't their purpose to us on our dismounted Winter Ex's.

I did x3 Sovereignty Operations in the 80s with the SSF out of Pet. Ex Lightning Strike was the continuing name?? Impressive is all I have to say about our Rangers. Some memories include that on the miles from nowhere ski-doo/kamotik halt, them being able to produce hot tea from a Coleman stove in what seemed like 30 seconds. They'd pre-fire the burner too...to heat the generator just like we did. On the caribou hunt, 4 Canadian Ranger were the most g*d aweful shots I've ever seen. One year we brought 4 US Army Rangers. 2 in our winter gear and 2 in the latest US arctic gear. Then there were 4 in Canadian gear.

regards
Darrell
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  #58  
Old 01-12-19, 05:58
Ed Storey Ed Storey is offline
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Default Snow Kit, 1951

I found this in the Canadian Army Catalogue of Ordnance Stores - Stock Class 5140 and 5180 - 5140 Tool and Hardware Boxes - 5180 Sets, Kits and Outfits of Hand Tools - July 1960.

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  #59  
Old 03-12-19, 23:29
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Default Skis & poles

Then there are skis and poles. These ones look like they date from 1983. The plastic bails on the poles are aged and brittle and the plastic sole that holds the heel piece is hard and brittle: both these parts did not age well and likely are broken on surviving examples. The Stock Number on the skis is 8465-21-886-9311, probably made by KKW Sport.
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  #60  
Old 04-12-19, 01:52
rob love rob love is offline
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The NSN is from the 1988 time period.

Ooops, I meant late 70s. Pretty bad when I start mixing up my decades. In fact, when I look up the number, it shows an assignment date of 1981.

Last edited by rob love; 04-12-19 at 19:26.
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