the border, the real deal

alleramilitaria · #1 17-05-06, 23:48

ok due to me not having a real life i have been able to strain through all the smoke and mirrors to get the real deal on the border issue down here in the US. all the info has been released from the government in the last 48hrs and can br found on FOX, CNN, MSNBC and other open news sorces.

1. get a passport, dirvers lic and other forms of ID will be phased out over the next cpl of years. north and south.

2. the border police will go from about 9,500 to about 14-15000 over the next 36 months. good luck. the attrition of the border patrole is huge. sometimes the mexicans will find a good border patrole officer and sue him over doing his job. the court case has to go forward and he normaly quits after being found not guilty.

3. there will be NO wall north or south at this time

4. ID cards are suposed to be issued to all undocumented illeagles

5. they will only be deported if they get a felloney or 3 lesser charges AND if it will not disrupt there familey

6. it will take from 9 to 11 years for a illeagle to become leagle.

7. UP to 6000 NAT-guard troops will be deployed in areas NOT dealing with border security dutys. they will be deployed for 2 weeks a year in shifts with time mobilising and demobilising in that 2 weeks (3 days gearing up 3 days checking out and about 8 days working for DHS).

8. the state deploys the guard. in calafornia it looks like from what arnold says he will not take part in the plan so that means 1500 troops will not deploy from the 6000.

9. arazona already has the guard on the border (+400 or so).

10. with the 36th division deployed to iraq texas will be hard pressed to get its 1500 troops up and to the border.

11. catch and release will NOT be stopped, we just dont have the places to put them.

12. mexico is planning on sueing the US government over the deployment of more border guards saying it impeads on the rights of its citizens sneaking into the US.

13. most guard troops deployed will not have weapons nor will they have the ability to arest any one.

14. the mexican government will continue to get real time updates on the movement and disposition of the minuet man project.

15. many more mexicans die every day sneaking into the US than US soldiers die in the war in iraq and no one seems to care.

this info is just for education for the folks who have wondered what is going on over here. new laws and political pressure may change everything listed above.
thanks
dave

Ponysoldier · #2 21-05-06, 00:24

Well you said it right,Smoke and mirrors Its basically the
law that was passed sometime ago,just a few things
added,I think The arizona guard will be armed as
our goverener feels fit to remain in control.Meaning
these troops will not be issued a weapon,,,but
Arizona is a state were one can walk down the street
with the old .45 strapped to ones hip,and the old saying
check your weapon with the bar tender is still a law.
Most of these guys have better weapons than what they
would be issued.
We should have passports and I.D. This whole thing
is just going to make things worse...
Patrick

alleramilitaria · #3 21-05-06, 00:41

i think the guard if reciving money from the feds will fall under fed control as far as ROE and deployment. translation any guard member carring a firearm will be court marchaled and recive a felloney.

they voted for a 400 mile wall for 2000 miles, but lets see if its like last time where they ordered a wall built but without money

Ponysoldier · #4 21-05-06, 06:20

I dont our gov has decided yet weither she is going to
send them or let the Feds do it.Either way its a bad
place to be between the rock and a hard spot.
Spent some time down there some years ago between
the sun and the illeagls its not a happy spot.What one has to worry about is the druggie type,thats the type that shoots
first and worries about it late.
Patrick

alleramilitaria · #5 21-05-06, 17:31

you are right, just like the guys that take pot shots at the minuet men, or the "unknown" guys that drive mexican army hummers with .50 cal MGs, wearing mexican army body armor, and uniforms on our side of the border. now who could that be? ow yea and by the way the mexican gvt has said that they are going to file a lawsuit against the border guards for killing that guy who tryed to run them over in CA last week. they violated his rights.

Ponysoldier · #6 21-05-06, 22:29

Oh yeah thats right you guys have had those shootings
too I forgot that.I really think it is the Mexican army,
moving drugs.The last one I saw the Mexicans had
a 8 wheeled AFV with what looked like a 90mm in a
turrent,think it was called the puma not something
one wants to eyeball to long when all you have is
a couple of M-151A1s. Let them sue someday some-
one will shoot back........

Patrick

alleramilitaria · #7 21-05-06, 23:22

poney, just remember what happened 9 years ago when the marines were on the border. they shot and killed a 16yo boy that had fired at them sevral times. the marines killed him and the troops cariers were ruined. also a sucesfull recon operation was compleatly disbanded. after this operation the entire texas sector was wide open and hundreds have now died there. dont be suprised to see another "incident" that the mexican goverment demands open borders afterwords.

alleramilitaria · #8 21-05-06, 23:24

and yes a rancher did shoot back at suspected smuglers south of elpaso. the ACLU got involved and sued the rancher for fireing warning shots. he lost and forfited his entire homstead.

Ponysoldier · #9 22-05-06, 04:26

I agree it has gotten out of hand,I also have no doubt
it will get worse in days to come.Law enforcement
of any type is not set up for tatical patroling,under
the present ROE it will remain the same. The law here
are changing now,there wont be ranchers losing the
farm,illegals now can not get health even critial care
unless the have all their papers set up before hand.
I feel we can ill afford to lose the money that we have
been losing 71 billion in two western states alone
last year.Its more a matter of where will lose more.
Patrick

Garry Shipton (RIP) · #10 22-05-06, 19:21

Back in 79 and 81,while my cousin had a home there,I'd look out the upstairs bedroom window in the morning,see the dark / light green Border Patrol vans plus a helicopter,parked to the left across a main road at a bushy ravine,and sure as hell,out would come a line of illegals with their hands on their heads.This was five miles north of Tijuana as I could see their city lights at night.I asked her how often this happened and she and her husband said everyday.I can just imagine how many have come through at that spot over the ensuing years ??

sapper740 · #11 25-05-06, 03:40

Quote:

Originally posted by Ponysoldier
I agree it has gotten out of hand,I also have no doubt
it will get worse in days to come.Law enforcement
of any type is not set up for tatical patroling,under
the present ROE it will remain the same. The law here
are changing now,there wont be ranchers losing the
farm,illegals now can not get health even critial care
unless the have all their papers set up before hand.
I feel we can ill afford to lose the money that we have
been losing 71 billion in two western states alone
last year.Its more a matter of where will lose more.
Patrick

Patrick, see what you can do to get Joe Arpio to run for President!

alleramilitaria · #12 25-05-06, 03:56

on c-span (i have no life) it was estimated that the illeagles are costing the US over 300,000,000,000 billion a year right now. Yes billion. time to close the borders and start offering free bus tickets to the place of birth. to our canadian friends i sugest that you take head and dont let it get as out of hand up there as it is down there. from the map i saw AZLAND "the new mexican homeland" has everything west of central texas all the way up to alaska including part of canada

sapper740 · #13 25-05-06, 04:42

Quote:

Originally posted by alleramilitaria
on c-span (i have no life) it was estimated that the illeagles are costing the US over 300,000,000,000 billion a year right now. Yes billion. time to close the borders and start offering free bus tickets to the place of birth. to our canadian friends i sugest that you take head and dont let it get as out of hand up there as it is down there. from the map i saw AZLAND "the new mexican homeland" has everything west of central texas all the way up to alaska including part of canada

I think you got a few too many zeros there my friend. 300 Billion Billion is a shite load of money.

alleramilitaria · #14 25-05-06, 05:11

thats what K. bailey Hutchoson said and it was backed up by another from another state and by the senett audot org. its not too hard to think of if you just count the 6 billion each year for the southern border, 20+ billion for state social services in just california. and the 100,000+ illeagles in federal prision 100,000+ in state jails etc.... (the avrg prisnor in fed prision costs just over $100,000.00 per year = 100,000,000.00 total) just think about it this way its 1/10th of the entire mexican population lives in the USA. and thats not counting the mid easterners, africans, europeans, and others who dont want to play by the rules.

alleramilitaria · #15 25-05-06, 05:13

100,000+ illeagles in federal prision 100,000+ in state jails etc.... (the avrg prisnor in fed prision costs just over $100,000.00 per year = 100,000,000.00
that should read $100,000,000,000.00...... yup its a big number

sapper740 · #16 25-05-06, 06:02

Quote:

Originally posted by sapper740
I think you got a few too many zeros there my friend. 300 Billion Billion is a shite load of money.

Especially when the estimated FY 2006 budget is only 2,600 Billion.

Ponysoldier · #17 25-05-06, 06:19

Hey now I ran out of fingers,and my calulator is broken
and I got a headache.Their going to give in and let
them become citizens,all of them! Now I have nothing
against that,but why didnt they do it right in the first place?
Really it does not behove them to become a citizen.
they have some one paying all the bills they dont have to pay
taxes.With this new plan nothing is solved and we are paying
for the extra protection (border patrol) and the guard
(which will do nothing) and still paying all the bills.
I think me and Mr Colt are going north to some big pines
Patrick

alleramilitaria · #18 25-05-06, 06:20

you are missing 0ver 100 billion in suplamental spending that gets aproved latter. just repeating what was brought out in the debate today. it may have been local, state, and federal costs.

Ponysoldier · #19 25-05-06, 06:35

Oh so true,and that cost will go up each year, and they will
still come.As long as they think they have a job they will
come.The Border Patrol( kinda like saying boyscouts), are
not equipped for this type of thing. Kinda hard shooting
back when ma deuce is getting up close and personnel
like

sapper740 · #20 25-05-06, 07:19

Quote:

Originally posted by Ponysoldier
Hey now I ran out of fingers,and my calulator is broken
and I got a headache.Their going to give in and let
them become citizens,all of them! Now I have nothing
against that,but why didnt they do it right in the first place?
Really it does not behove them to become a citizen.
they have some one paying all the bills they dont have to pay
taxes.With this new plan nothing is solved and we are paying
for the extra protection (border patrol) and the guard
(which will do nothing) and still paying all the bills.
I think me and Mr Colt are going north to some big pines
Patrick

What pisses me off is I went through a tremendous amount of hassle and expense to get my visa to move to the U.S. as well as all the background checks, which I didn't mind. Keep in mind that my Grandfather was born in Indiana and my father was a naturalized U.S. citizen. So how come we're going to let all the illegal aliens stay in the U.S. and eventually get their citizenship? We're rewarding them for breaking the law! Another point...I'll be applying for my U.S. citizenship soon. Will my application as a legal alien get caught up in the backlog that the 15,000,000 illegals is going to create? I'll be lucky to get my citizenship in the next decade, or two!

Ponysoldier · #21 25-05-06, 07:55

Yes we are going just that, we have to get some people
who have a pair(oops) and enforce the existing laws.
Most of all what I get tired of is all those people
north of the mason-dixon line,not listening. There
are a lot of the average people,that dont want the
senate bill passed.
I didnt know that the cost were that high too come here.
I dont know why it would screw up your application
the Quotas are different I think.
Patrick

Alex Blair (RIP) · #22 25-05-06, 12:17

Quote:

Originally posted by sapper740
What pisses me off is I went through a tremendous amount of hassle and expense to get my visa to move to the U.S. as well as all the background checks, which I didn't mind. Keep in mind that my Grandfather was born in Indiana and my father was a naturalized U.S. citizen. So how come we're going to let all the illegal aliens stay in the U.S. and eventually get their citizenship? We're rewarding them for breaking the law! Another point...I'll be applying for my U.S. citizenship soon. Will my application as a legal alien get caught up in the backlog that the 15,000,000 illegals is going to create? I'll be lucky to get my citizenship in the next decade, or two!

Sapper...
My son in law has a masters degree in engineering and was fortunate that he had the "Needed skills " to get a job in the US..
And has to renew his visa once a year..To do that he must return to Canada and do that from the Canadian side of the border.
His wife,my daughter, has an English major degree..A Education Degree and a masters degree in English ,summa cum laude, and can't take a job in the US because she does not have her own working visa..
Now between the two of them ,that is a hell of a pile of money spent on Education..not one red cent of it spent by the US taxpayer..
She has applyed for a working visa last year and didn't get it because she missed the "quota" for working visas..
She has applyed again this year and hopefully can get it so that she can work there..
Their legal fees for immigration lawyers cost ,average $5000.00 a piece....to process the paperwork and get all the checks and "I" dotting right..
Who is going to pay those legal fees for those southern invaders....??
If there are 11 million of them at $5000.00 legal fees a piece, that is $55 with 9 zeros behind it...
$55,000,000,000.00.....$55 billion $$$$$$$$$$$$$$US...
Just for legal fees....
One guess and if you guess "The American taxpayer",you probably go to the head of the class....
Now these two immigrants have a lot to offer ,pre paid..no expense to the US taxpayer..
But not even up to the green card stage yet...
And permanent residence ...???
No Fast track system for wanted immigrants like the educated like my kids and you...???
And no "ammesty" for y'all???
Amesty from what..??
Doing it the right way..???
You call that justice..???
If I was an American citizen ,I would be up in arms also ....
Common sense and honesty seems to have no place in US politics...

Garry Shipton (RIP) · #23 31-05-06, 18:20

My buddy Joe was down in Kingston Ontario for a pipe band gig on Saturday.Sunday morning he and his wife,on their way home went on a 1000 Islands boat tour to Boldt Castle on the US side.Before you board the boat you've got to clear US Customs,then buy your ticket,the computer is hooked up to customs and is verified by ticket booth for the boat.Then on the way back you pre-clear Canada Customs on Heart Island where the castle is.Geez,I guess that makes us boat people !!

horsa · #24 31-05-06, 18:34

Lately they are talking on the news about all the "known" terrorist cells that are forming in Canada. If they know who and where they are, go get them and leave the borders alone....

Only ends up being a hassel to law abiding people since there is no effective way to close such a long northern and souther border.

sapper740 · #25 31-05-06, 21:22

Here's an amusing story concerning the border between Canada and the U.S. When I was living in Vancouver I used to go to a lot of shooting competitions in Washington state and made many friends from there. One, Ken Tuttle and his wife loved to ride their horses in the mountains and I told them about what a great place Golden Ears Park was in B.C. so they trailered their horses and spent a few days exploring the park. Coming back through U.S. customs an agent inspected their horse trailer, looking for marijuana from B.C. which is a big problem in that area. Instead, he found a big steaming pile of fresh horse manure. Well, apparently it's illegal to import manure into the U.S. so the U.S. customs agent made them turn around and re-enter Canada. Upon reporting to Canada customs, a suspicious agent who saw that they had been refused entry into the U.S. checked their horse trailer also. Of course, the pile of steaming manure was still there in all it's glory. Well, since it's illegal to import manure into Canada Ken was refused entry and made to turn around and re-enter the U.S. Pulling up to the U.S. customs once again, Ken was asked if he still had the manure onboard. He answered in the affirmative and explained that Canada customs refused him and his manure and pleaded to be allowed to enter the country of his birth. The answer was still no! Even though he and the horses were American by birth they had deposited Canadian manure and it was not allowed in the country. Once again Ken reversed course and presented himself and the still steaming pile of manure at Canada customs. Please! he begged. Someone has to relent and allow him a chance to clean the manure out of the trailer. After all, the manure was derived from Canadian feed, he explained. Fortunately, the Canadian Customs agent relented and told Ken to go up the road a ways and quickly clean the manure up. Ken did so and on the way back to the U.S. side of the border prayed that his horses didn't go again!

Somewhere in this tale is a lesson for all of us to learn, although what it is, I'm not sure. Perhaps it's "Don't try to horseshit a Customs agent."

I fervently hope our Border Patrols guard against terrorist's biological weapons as assiduously as they do organic fertilizer and marijuana!

CHIMO!

Garry Shipton (RIP) · #26 31-05-06, 21:48

I'n still crying from laughing.You know those laughter pains deep down in the gut.Your story is full of horseshit,excuse the pun.Down at the border at Champlain NY,if I'm in uniform,air force kilt,name tag on the blue shirt,they ask "Are you in the parade in town.OK I'll be there when I finish here".No questions asked,no ID.just breeze on through.