CMPs - where are they now?

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Les Freathy
G,Day again
some more to add this is the same wireless truck as the previous photo but seen here at the second Budge open day at Retford now complete with cab hard top. Did it become one of the Budge collection

Yes - see Chevrolet C15A radio van.

Thanks for the pics, Les!

[Vic Eaton]

Yes i would say that is tom in the driving seat he towed a tipper all the way from LUXEMBERG to ABERDEEN scotland over severn hundred miles toms still around .
vic uk.

[Ian McCallum]

Originally Posted by victor eaton

Yes i would say that is tom in the driving seat he towed a tipper all the way from LUXEMBERG to ABERDEEN scotland over severn hundred miles toms still around

Certainly a much younger Tom Bewick and equally as young Bob Simmers of Aberdeen.

Ian

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Les Freathy
Now i think this one is or was owned by that well travelled Scotsman Tom Berwick am i correct

Absolutely, ESR 333 is Tom's. That F60S LAAT is fitted with a Ford diesel engine and must be one of the most-travelled CMPs around. Last time I saw it, it was looking well and truly tired, but still going strong.

H.

[Brian Gough]

Les,

I think HUP with license # FHO251 is/was owned by Michael Burne, of Chilworth in Surrey, UK. It is a PUTR-2 model and was pictured at Beltring 1997 in Wheels & Tracks No. 63, p.5.

Brian

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Since Les was treating us with pictures from the old shoebox, I though I'd add one too. Shown below is yours truly dreaming away behind the steering wheel of a C15A, when he was still a young lad back in 1984. This C15A was restored by Marien Goud, he also had a Cab 11 CMP, an unrestored HUP and some other MV's (Dodge Command Car, I recall). Later his car business got in financial trouble and (part of) his collection was sold to the CWM. Has anyone seen this particular truck in Ottawa?

This was really when the seed was planted, but it took me 17 years (it took me a while to find a good specimen of the right brand ) to get my own CMP truck.

Hanno

C15A_Marien_Goud_10-mar-1984.jpg
http://www.surfacezero.com/g503/data...0-mar-1984.jpg

[Rolf S. Ask]

The C60X is belonging to Ole Johhny Royland here in Norway.
He bought it a while after it was at Beltring.

Rolf

[Dirk Leegwater (RIP)]

Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra
Has anyone seen this particular truck in Ottawa?

A couple of years ago, seen in CWM, the HUP from Marien Goud.
A great day together with the "Chicken ranch" crew.
Marien Goud is passed away in the early nineties.


Mvg. Dirk

http://212.79.246.244/5800/home.nsf/HUPGoud.jpg

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Dirk Leegwater
A couple of years ago, seen in CWM, the HUP from Marien Goud.

Thanks Dirk, I have seen pictures before of Marien's HUP in Ottawa.

But I wonder where his C15A went. Did it stay in Holland?

H.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Dirk Leegwater

A couple of years ago, seen in CWM, the HUP from Marien Goud.
A great day together with the "Chicken ranch" crew.
Marien Goud is passed away in the early nineties.

Here are pictures of the C8A as found in a barn in the 1980s. I saw this HUP when it was in the garage of Marien Goud in The Netherlands shortly after he recovered it. I think it was found in Belgium and he told me he paid a couple of bottles of jenever (gin) for it.

11947499916_765bced1df_o.jpg 11946658225_220590393f_o.jpg 8126212494_96688eceb6_o.jpg

Marien then fully restored it, and later sold his HUP with some other CMP trucks to the Canadian War Museum.

5384193.jpg

[Bruce Parker (RIP)]

Back in the 1970's and 1980's there were dozens and dozens of CMP's and carriers owned by dozens of people here in Canada. There are relatively few restored and running today. What happened to them all? I fear the worst.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Bruce Parker

Back in the 1970's and 1980's there were dozens and dozens of CMP's and carriers owned by dozens of people here in Canada. There are relatively few restored and running today. What happened to them all? I fear the worst.

I recall stories by Brian Gough about a friend called Mel. He used to buy complete CMPs for a couple of hundred dollars, needing putting back on the road and a repaint mostly. He stored them out in the open at his mother’s house.
I wonder if he still has them.

H.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Les Freathy
Now i believe this Chev once belonged to John Marchant a avid collector of all things CMP in the past she is fitted with Garwood wrecking gear

I think Rolf Ask commented this is an ex-Danish historical military vehicle collectors club vehicle.

Yesterday I saw this very same C60S in a Dutch Army storage depot. It is fitted with a GMC 270 engine.

H.

[Rolf S. Ask]

Can't remember comenting that photo as ex-danish...
It has norwegian licensplates, and even the stickers of the norwegian MV-club HMK in the window, so it must be ex-norwegian.

Many of these superb ex-norwegian wreckes did go abroad when auctioned on the army-sales.
Also some of them bought by norwegian collectors have been sold abroad later on
I recon there is less than 10 left in Norway today... (only five comes to mind)

Rolf

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Rolf S. Ask
Can't remember comenting that photo as ex-danish...
It has norwegian licensplates, and even the stickers of the norwegian MV-club HMK in the window, so it must be ex-norwegian.

Rolf,

Sorry, it was Norway of course! (Those Scandinavians are all the same, eh? )

Somehow this example ended up at Jaap Rietveld, well known military vehicle dealer, from who the Dutch Army historical collection bought it. It needs a fair bit of work to get it to a presentable standard again. With the GMC 270-cu.in engine it should be a real goer.

H.

[Rolf S. Ask]

Well the Scandinavians do get along very well, but we have had our disputes and wars during the history but that's a long time ago now...

And the most important thing is that a MV is saved, not where.

And it has pussled me a long time why not all Chevs did get the 270 engine... It is a big different from the 216. But recon it has something to do with the english officials, they was not happy abouth those big engines... did it have something to do with the lisence calculated from horepowers needed to be payed every Year? But that should not be the biggest espences in wartime...

I also think I have heard that they called the Chevs "cauffins" when compared with Fords, i.e. when driving uphill to get away from enemy fire the Fords did get you away, but the Chevs did not...

Rolf

[Dirk Leegwater (RIP)]

Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra
But I wonder where his C15A went. Did it stay in Holland?

For me also a question !

Mvg. Dirk

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

Rolf asks (sorry for the pun my friend, not intended) about the choice of 216 Chevy engine. Here is some information from the DND papers that I have posted before:

Carmichael, the GM of Canada General Manager, was present at the trials [Ontario, early summer 1939] and he advised that the company were anxious to produce two units for testing by the DND, and that they could be made to any specification laid down. No mention of purchase was made and it was afterwards intimated to [Colonel N.O. Carr aka "No Car"] by Kirkhope [J.L. Kirkhope of GM of Canada] that there was no intention of selling the units to the DND. Carmichael was informed that Carr was ready to lay down a specification which in his opinion was the best to follow for two experimental vehicles; that he could see no special advantages in the designs then being called for if they were regarded from the viewpoint of the WD and the knowledge he possessed in regard to the latter’s aims, but he felt that it might be better to draw up a specification after consulting other possible consumers. Carmichael waved aside this proposal and intimated that the DND should produce what they thought was the best vehicle and left it to them to try to sell the idea abroad. He took him at his word, he said, and discussed in detail with the GM Chief Engineer, Armstrong, and Kirkhope the design to which he thought the two vehicles should be produced. This was that both vehicles were to be of minimum wheelbase, estimated to be approximately 108-inches. Both vehicles were to have the front end redesigned to admit of the driver being placed as far forward as possible. Armstrong suggested that he thought that by using the widest track available the driver could be positioned so that his feet were well up beside the engine. If this worked out satisfactorily then the loading space behind the driver should be equivalent or very nearly so, to that of the 15-cwt. [this must have been a reference to the 1938 GS Trucks]. Both vehicles were to be fitted with cowl and windscreen only and bucket seat. One vehicle was to be fitted with the standard Chevrolet [216] engine, and the other with a larger engine, which had only recently been developed, namely the [US 33.19 hp GMC] 248 cu. in 6-cylinder . One vehicle was to be fitted with 13.50 x 16 tyres and the other 9.00 x 16 tyres, single wheels all round. These specifications were presented to Armstrong as an ideal to be aimed for and a formal response in writing was promised. However, Carr envisaged a difficulty with the production of the wheels for the 9.00 x 16-inch tyres as the offset required on the front axle was very large. The double-flanged wheel as produced by Kelsey [Kelsey Wheel Company Limited, Windsor, Ontario] would not meet requirements. There was however a possible solution as India had ordered on their truck the fitment of 13.50 x 16-inch tyres and had told GM that they were to proceed with the obtaining of this equipment. This item had held up the production of the truck for India for some time as it was thought initially that the fitting of a wheel of this diameter would be impossible. The standard brake drum was about 14-inches in diameter, though after further study in conjunction with Timken, it had been decided to fit an 11 to 12-inch brake drum that would take a 16-inch wheel. If the spider of such a wheel was produced then in order to convert it to use with a 9.00 x 16-inch tyre would simply require the importation of the rim from [Dunlop?] England. It was further understood that 13.50 x 16 tyres were by then obtainable in the US and that the Dominion Rubber Company Limited were also about ready to start Canadian production as well. GM were then busily engaged on the 1940 Models [launched 20 October, engine production for 1939 Models stopped in June, and 1940 production started in August], hence Armstrong thought that it would be most unlikely that these two experimental trucks could be produced before the end of August, but ‘he would do his best’. Carr rode in the truck bound for Malaya, apparently around Durham County, which had been fitted with 13.50 x 20 tyres, and about 20 miles were covered on a back country road with a maximum obtained of 43 m.p.h. The truck was said to be very unstable as the final front-end geometry had not been set-up. However, the GMC truck, for that is what it was, allowed the disengaging the front axle and had an auxiliary gearbox [2-speed] providing for a total of 8 forward speeds and two reverse. Caldwell, the MGO, commented in handwriting on the original note that he found the information ‘very interesting’. He was of the opinion that it was advisable to go ahead on ‘our own design’ based on known British trends and concurred in Carr’s action in the matter. He commented ‘anything we produce on these lines which is satisfactory to us is likely to be at least generally satisfactory to other Empire countries’. There is no direct evidence but circumstantial information from Stan Ellis’s letter of 10 November 1939 from London which is set out in greater detail below, seems to suggest that one of these trucks was shipped to England and tested in the autumn...

My comment: this seems to suggest that GM of Canada had agreed in late 1939 to produce two ‘1940’ model GMC-based trucks based on a cowl and windscreen only and Forward-control. Reference to a 108-inch wheelbase suggests that the discussion was concerning the 1940 Models Maple Leaf 1858 and GMC 9858 C.O.E. 2-ton chassis with cowl which normally had either the 216 Chevrolet unit or the larger 224 GMC unit, and the GMC 248 would have been a special fitment. GM of Canada therefore agreed to design their two pilot trucks loosely to WD-specification. Did they however agree to add their own cab design to WD requirements? It is more likely though that GM delegated the cab design for fitment to GM chassis to Ford of Canada, no mention having being made to Oshawa building a cab: quote: ‘both vehicles were to be fitted with cowl and windscreen only and bucket seat’. Fords were at the time occupied with the DND 15-cwt. GS 4x 2 Trucks with the WD-specification cab, and an adaptation thereof went into series production.

The Canadian GMC 248.4 cu in. unit had a bore and stroke of 3 23/32 x 3 13/16 and production started in August 1940 and finished in June 1941: 6,573 in 1940 and 10,464 in 1941. Compare this with total 216 (and 224?) production for 1940 and 1941: 71,627 and 106,935! No attempt was made to produce the 270 GMC unit in Walkerville. As you know the 270, imported from the US plants was requested for the C60X, and then installed in armoured CMPs. However, Ford offered their Lincoln Zephyr V-12 for a 6-wheeler CMP, and the Chrysler straight eight was trailled in a VC60X airportable. Why the Chevy-based Pontiac 224 was not chosen as this offered more power, and was used in Maple Leaf trucks, I have no idea. I can only surmise that the commonality with the US 216 that was mass-produced, and the thought of spare parts supplies in the future, led to the adoption of the 216.

[Pete Ashby]

Originally posted by Les Freathy
Way back in the 1970s at Shottersbrooke and the John Carter rallies a 30cwt wireless,is this yours Vic ?

The 12 cab Chev may well be mine, if it is then it was owned by Richard Beddall at this time

Pete

[Vic Eaton]

HELLO PETE
Are you saying it was richard beddal that rallied the radio truck in the seventies if so do you know if he is still around as i have often wondered what happened to the rear body heater the instruction plate was still laying in the back when i got it so its poss it was there at some time.
regards vic .

[Pete Ashby]

Originally posted by victor eaton
HELLO PETE
Are you saying it was richard beddal that rallied the radio truck in the seventies if so do you know if he is still around as i have often wondered what happened to the rear body heater the instruction plate was still laying in the back when i got it so its poss it was there at some time.
regards vic .

Hello Vic

no I'm referring to the 12 cab C15A Chev parked next to it I'm afraid

Pete

[Vic Eaton]

HI PETE
Thanks for reply do you still have your truck from those days they seem a long way off now dont they we still keep ploding along but no rallys these days most have gone from this aerea so its just short trips around the local town etc
regards vic .

[Les Freathy]

Back in the late 1990s these photos appeared in a magazine asking if the CMP had survived, to my knowledge it was a no reply. It was parked up near Invergowrie Bay in Scotland, well did it survive?
cheers
Les

[Vic Eaton]

John Marchent's Chev wrecker @ auction

[Vic Eaton]

Photo taken at auction when John Marchent sold it.
Where is it now?.....

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by victor eaton
John Marchent's Chev wrecker @ auction

Vic, see the top of this thread: John Marchant's Chevrolet C60S Wrecker is now owned by Jon Newbold. He bought it as it is the very same truck his father used to drive. It has now been restored and is still working for a living. See Chev CMP restorations in the UK for more recent pictures of this C60S.

H.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by victor eaton
Photo taken at auction when John Marchent sold it.
Where is it now?.....

Last thing I heard of it: according to Steve Stone this F60H is now in bits in someone's yard.

H.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by victor eaton
John Marchent's Chev wrecker @ auction

Vic, in the background of your pic I see Marchant's C15TA, I read it sold for £2,550 at his retirement sale back in 1999. I'd love to see a better pic of it and get an answer to the question: where it is now?

H.

Pic source: C15TA survivors

[Richard Farrant]

Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra
Vic, in the background of your pic I see Marchant's C15TA, I read it sold for £2,550 at his retirement sale back in 1999. I'd love to see a better pic of it and get an answer to the question: where it is now?

Hanno,

Look back at W&T No. 17, it was on the front cover, just after he restored it, also inside it is featured in a Before and After.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Richard Farrant
Look back at W&T No. 17, it was on the front cover, just after he restored it, also inside it is featured in a Before and After.

Thanks Richard, but that is John's C15TAA armoured ambulance. This now lives in the Canadian War Museum in Ottawa, Ontario, Canada.

But John also had a regular C15TA which he sold in 1999 - see small pic above - but nobody can tell me where it's gone.

H.