AU and NZ army in the pacific 41-45

[alleramilitaria]

i have some questions about the AU and NZ army in the pacific 41-45.
anyone on this forum know a expert on the subject?
thanks
dave

[Tony Smith]

No-one can get away with calling themselves an expert, but what questions do you have and someone might know?

[alleramilitaria]

im thinking about starting a living history group here in texas.
so i would like to have a unit that was involved in WWI
fought in north africa in WWII
and fought alongside US forces in the pacific.

so what infantry BN would best fit the bill?

thanks
dave

[Tony Smith]

In the Second World War, the NZ and Australian units that initially went Overseas were formed by volunteers who comprised the 2nd New Zealand Expeditionary Force and the 2nd Australian Imperial Force. These were newly raised units which did retain many features of the 1st NZEF and 1st AIF, but were not the same units and did not retain their battle honours from the Great War. The original units still remained (some existed, some were only on paper) as Militia or Territorial units.
As an example, The 2nd Battalion, 2nd AIF (6th Div) had the same colour patch as the 2nd Bn Militia, only with a pale grey outline to denote 2nd AIF. The 2/2 Bn AIF fought in many of the initial actions in North Africa which rolled the Italians out of Cyrenaica, and later fought in Greece, Crete and Syria before coming back to fight in New Guinea alongside the US 126th Regt at Sanananda.
By contrast, the 17th Battalion, 2nd AIF (9th Div) had the same colour patch as the 17th Bn Militia, but again with a pale grey outline to denote 2nd AIF. The 2nd/17th was one of the units that formed the "Rats of Tobruk" (which would later fight alongside US units in New Guinea) and their colour patch (along with most other units from the Tobruk siege) would later change in shape to a "T" shape. Sometimes the colours would also change, further removing the link to the Militia Battalions. This separation between AIF units and Militia was quite pronounced. (This becomes a whole new subject, but the AIF was formed from Volunteers for overseas service, many were recruits off the street and many were trained soldiers from the Permanent Army or Militia. Those who had volunteered tended to look down on those who remained in the Militia, calling them Chockos (Chocolate Soldiers) or Koalas (Not to be exported or shot at). It was only after the war that the veterans of both wars combined to form battalion associations, but it was the WW1 vets and the WW2 vets that combined, to the exclusion of the WW2 Militia!). There were many 2nd AIF units that fought with distinction in North Africa that went on to fight alongside US units in the Pacific.
Those 2nd NZEF units in North Africa (1st and 2nd NZ Divs) remained with the 8th Army and went on to Italy, meeting up with other D-Day Dodgers from US, Canada and Britain. The NZ units that fought alongside the US Army and Marines (3rd NZ Div) in Guadalcanal and the Solomons were raised in NZ and had not fought in North Africa. In a reversal to the Australian experience, the 3rd NZ Div could not be sustained due to manpower issues in NZ and the Div was disbanded with many troops being sent to reinforce the troops in Italy and relieve long serving originals.

[alleramilitaria]

thanks, that makes a fuzzy subject even fuzzier LOL.
ok so the 2/17 would be a good choice, could you tell me what units were raised in NSW? wife is from there. have to keep her happy

and where could i get info on the units on the web? the ausi war memorial web site is weak on the WWII units.

thanks
dave

P.S. with any luck i now have a MK I carrier to form the unit around (YEA!!!!) all i need now is a LP1 owwwww im in soooo much trouble with the wife

[Tony Smith]

Your in luck! Both the 2nd Bn AIF and the 17th Bn AIF recruited from the Hunter Valley and North Coast districts. In fact, just to confuse my previous post even more, the 2nd Militia Bn and the 17th Militia Bn amalgamated after the war to become the 2nd/17th Royal New South Wales Regiment (2nd/17th RNSWR), which is a part-time Reserve unit, because both these Bns shared the same recruiting catchment. 2nd/17th RNSWR bears no relation to 2nd/17th Bn AIF.
See Tobruk, Alamein , Kokoda and 2/17RNSWR for some more info.
Google searches on these will turn up a lot more.

[alleramilitaria]

i think you all are on a mission do drive us yanks loopy.

any units raised at the big bananna?

dave

[Tony Smith]

Originally posted by alleramilitaria
i think you all are on a mission do drive us yanks loopy.

He he

Originally posted by alleramilitaria
any units raised at the big bananna?

dave

Coffs Harbour was too small to warrant a Battalion of it's own. Don't forget small towns like Coffs were also supplying recruits to the Navy and Air Force. Most Battalions drew from districts that closly mirrored the Militia catchments. Many Militia Battalions were drained of core staff as they were the prime Army presence for a region and were asked to co-ordinate the recruiting. First names down on the books were often the Militia themselves. Many Militia NCO's and Officers took a reduction in rank to join the AIF as there was no guarantee of retaining Militia or Permanent Army rank.