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  #1  
Old 06-11-04, 02:36
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Default Canadian Vietnam Veterans

There is some local stir going about our Legions reluctance to carry the American Flag at our Remembrance Cerimony.

A reporter asked My opinion and I stated that I was against the carrying of the Flag as that is not our Country or our War and also said that Canadians served with great Distinction in the war.

Also I said that we do not Carry a Spanish Flag in the Honour of The Mac /Paps.
Am I totaly dilusioned or uninformed heartless,Please post your thoughts
Jeff
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  #2  
Old 06-11-04, 03:14
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Jeff,

In my opinion you are correct. It is my position that one flag is carried on Rememberance/ Armastice Day and that flag is the flag of CANADA.

The Canadian flag is flown to represent all Canadians everywhere from all times. We are remembering US and not the countries WE served or served in when ceremonies on the 11th are conducted.

There is no question. Can be no question. One country. Only one type of citizenship so:

ONE FLAG.

The rest of the bleeding hearts should require a licence to express their opinion about this. Perhaps the licence should start with CD after their name.

That's it.
JD
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  #3  
Old 06-11-04, 03:17
Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)'s Avatar
Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP) Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP) is offline
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Mr. Davis,

I have had the priviledge of the friendship of several Amewrican Viet Nam veterans. One, whom I consider a dear friend, died of Agent Orange poisionng three years ago. He did two tours, one on tanks and another as a scout gunner on LOACHs. He was one of the finest men I've ever met. I miss him dearly.

Another, now resident here in Ontario, was in the Recon Platoon of the 101st Airborne. Another I'd lay my life on in a minute. I've worked with him, and he taught me a lot. He's a hell of a good man.

Don't judge by the flag and the conflict. More than ten thousand Canadians served in Viet Nam voluntarily, and many died. The flag they served under is irrelevant - HONOUR THEM.

I own an American flag. I'm not ashamed to show it. Whether or not you agree with their politics, their young men are dying on foreign battlefields.

Please honour their sacrifice. Like all soldiers, they died for each other, not the flag. Fly their flag in honour of their memory. Please.

And don't forget, a hell of a lot of Yanks died in OUR service in WW2. They can't be forgotten either.
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Old 06-11-04, 03:22
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Default Flag

Was that a yes or a no?
I do honor them but does the flag represent Canadians serving for another Country
Jeff
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  #5  
Old 06-11-04, 03:29
Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)'s Avatar
Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP) Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP) is offline
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Default Re: Us

Quote:
Originally posted by JD Baillie
The rest of the bleeding hearts should require a licence to express their opinion about this. Perhaps the licence should start with CD after their name.

That's it.
JD
Gee. I don't have a "CD" after my name. Does that mean I don't have an opinion?

Read my last.

Let's hear from the guys here who DO have CDs after their name. For the record.

BTW, I have sold approx 125 Red Ensigns so far. It's not the Canadian flag per se, so does that mean that the guys who bought them - most of them veterans - aren't Canadian enough for you?

Mr. Davis, fly the damned flag in honour of those Americans who have died in OUR service, and those Canadians who have died in THEIR service. This is about remembrance, not politics. Human beings. If you don't have an AMerican flag, I'll lend you mine.
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Old 06-11-04, 03:33
Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)'s Avatar
Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP) Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP) is offline
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Default Re: Flag

Quote:
Originally posted by jeff davis
Was that a yes or a no?
I do honor them but does the flag represent Canadians serving for another Country
Jeff
Jeff,

Fly it with the Canadian flag, AND the Red Ensign, as a sign of respect for those who are laying their lives on the line, from 1939 until today. HONOUR AND RESPECT FOR THE FALLEN. It's got damn-all to do with politics.

I can pass you my Yank flag and a Red Ensign if required.
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Old 06-11-04, 03:34
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Imissed my C.D by a year,good to hear some opinion out there,
I gave out 200 Red ensigns on the 11th 2 years ago
Jeff
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  #8  
Old 06-11-04, 03:39
Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)'s Avatar
Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP) Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP) is offline
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Default Re: Flag

Quote:
Originally posted by jeff davis
...but does the flag represent Canadians serving for another Country
Jeff
As stated before... it also represents a whole lot of Americans who came up here to join US in the two years before they were officially at war. Whether or not you agree with Canadian involvement in Viet Nam (which was substantial), you cannot disregard my last.
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  #9  
Old 06-11-04, 04:41
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Post Re: Flags and CD

Quote:
Originally posted by jeff Davis
There is some local stir going about our Legions reluctance to carry the American Flag at our Remembrance Cerimony.
In regards to the flag of the United States, fly the bloody thing, November 11th is Veteran's Day in the USA, and as Geoff as pointed out, a hell of a lot of them have served and fallen while serving in the Canadian Forces in two world wars and Korea.

Anyways, that's this "bleeding hearts" two cents worth.

Quote:
Originally posted by JD Baillie
The rest of the bleeding hearts should require a licence to express their opinion about this. Perhaps the licence should start with CD after their name.
So, anyone who is entitled to the post nominal "CD" is a bleeding heart, are they?

I have the first clasp to my CD, does that make me a "Big Bleeding Heart"......... and I'm a Veteran to boot.....
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Old 06-11-04, 04:49
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What about the Mac /paps
jeff
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  #11  
Old 06-11-04, 05:14
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Default Re: Re: Flags and CD

Quote:
Originally posted by Mark W. Tonner
In regards to the flag of the United States, fly the bloody thing, November 11th is Veteran's Day in the USA, and as Geoff as pointed out, a hell of a lot of them have served and fallen while serving in the Canadian Forces in two world wars and Korea.

Anyways, that's this "bleeding hearts" two cents worth.



So, anyone who is entitled to the post nominal "CD" is a bleeding heart, are they?

I have the first clasp to my CD, does that make me a "Big Bleeding Heart"......... and I'm a Veteran to boot.....
I've got two clasps to my CD...and am a Veteran...Does that make me a "Bigger Bleeding Heart".

Any-one who dares to call me a bleeding heart better be prepared to get his face ripped off...BTW, I salute all National flags on any parade.
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  #12  
Old 06-11-04, 05:28
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"Gee. I don't have a "CD" after my name. Does that mean I don't have an opinion?"

Are you a bleeding heart? If not, say on!


"Let's hear from the guys here who DO have CDs after their name. For the record."

OK:

Men and Women who have their CD earned it under at least three iterations of the Canadain flag. But the flag saluted today is the Maple Leaf. I too have associated with U.S. veterans of two wars, Korea and the Second World War. I have served with some of them. From Wales, Scotland and England and in one case Germany (Hitler Jugend). They were all good men and deserve my fond rememberance. In one particular case I brought a U.S. Vietnam veteran into my legion as a full member. There were tears in his eyes during the swearing in - he was so glad to be recognised and included in with us. All persons who have given ANYTHING up for their country should be remembered passionately. But while in THIS country should do so under the CANADA flag and no other.

Under no circumstances on Nov 11th of all days should any other country's flag share a position of precedence with the Maple Leaf.

There are enough splinter elements in this country without confusing anyone about which flag we stand under.



"BTW, I have sold approx 125 Red Ensigns so far. It's not the Canadian flag per se, so does that mean that the guys who bought them - most of them veterans - aren't Canadian enough for you?"


And I keep my grandfather's WWII red ensign in the most special place of all.

BUT I say again it is not the flag of today. It is not the flag of Canadian unity, and it is not a flag that should share space during a national time of rememberance.

"Mr. Davis, fly the damned flag in honour of those Americans who have died in OUR service, and those Canadians who have died in THEIR service. This is about remembrance, not politics. Human beings. If you don't have an AMerican flag, I'll lend you mine."

Jeff, I'll lend you a U.S. flag too. But that will not change the way we remember.

Don't forget: whether draft dogder, deserter, or honorably discharged from foreign services, those men and women choose to live in CANADA and no where else.

JD
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  #13  
Old 06-11-04, 05:40
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Jon, All,

Appreciate that the CD comment came from listening to many unqualified voices explain to me through the media how badly we have it here and how much better things are at 'home'.

Please rip my face off (verbally) for feeling hotly about presenting a strong Canadian image.

JD
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  #14  
Old 06-11-04, 07:22
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My two cents worth. Guess they should have flown only the French flag at the D-Day ceremonies, huh? Afterall, they took place in France. Seems to me that flags of all nations were flown to show appreciation to all the fallen...BTW, the Union Jack was regularly flown in Canada at the time of the Second World War.
Guess that would be an insult to fly now too..
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  #15  
Old 06-11-04, 14:17
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Aussies in Vietnam also fought under the Stars and Stripes. Do we care? It's much more importantant to remember those who went, why they went and those who didn't come back.
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  #16  
Old 06-11-04, 16:10
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"At the going down of the sun, and in the morning,
we will remember them."

Bill Mulholland MMM, CD(3Bars)
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Old 06-11-04, 16:18
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AMEN

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  #18  
Old 06-11-04, 18:09
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bill Mulholland
"At the going down of the sun, and in the morning,
we will remember them."

Bill Mulholland MMM, CD(3Bars)
Always

From the Heart,

Karmen
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  #19  
Old 06-11-04, 18:39
Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)'s Avatar
Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP) Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP) is offline
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Me, a bleeding heart? Oh my, what would those who know me think...

I understand your position on this, JD, but respectfully disagree. I think Jon said it best: 'I salute all National Flags on parade'.

OF COURSE the flag of Canada has precedence over any other in this country. But many here have served under other flags and that service should be acknowledged. Oh, and please... don't tell several veterans I know that the Red Ensign is not something they can or should salute. THEY BLED FOR THAT FLAG. It represents the nation they went to war for.

IMHO, denigrating THAT, denigrates their service. I know a few feisty old buggers who might take you to task on that, because they were there at the time. The concepts of 'government edict' and 'PC' just don't take with them. And they EARNED the right to their opinions. They buy my flag because they're proud of what it represents.

BTW, ref one of your other comments, there's noticeably less "unity" in this country now than there ever has been. That has damn-all to do with the flag - it's a function of government policy. The inevitable result of 40 years of wishy-washy politics. Perhaps if we'd kept with the spirit of the Red Ensign, things might have worked out diferently...

Finally... draft dodgers and deserters have no place in this conversation. IMHO.

G.



Quote:
Originally posted by JD Baillie
"Gee. I don't have a "CD" after my name. Does that mean I don't have an opinion?"

Are you a bleeding heart? If not, say on!


"Let's hear from the guys here who DO have CDs after their name. For the record."

OK:

Men and Women who have their CD earned it under at least three iterations of the Canadain flag. But the flag saluted today is the Maple Leaf. I too have associated with U.S. veterans of two wars, Korea and the Second World War. I have served with some of them. From Wales, Scotland and England and in one case Germany (Hitler Jugend). They were all good men and deserve my fond rememberance. In one particular case I brought a U.S. Vietnam veteran into my legion as a full member. There were tears in his eyes during the swearing in - he was so glad to be recognised and included in with us. All persons who have given ANYTHING up for their country should be remembered passionately. But while in THIS country should do so under the CANADA flag and no other.

Under no circumstances on Nov 11th of all days should any other country's flag share a position of precedence with the Maple Leaf.

There are enough splinter elements in this country without confusing anyone about which flag we stand under.



"BTW, I have sold approx 125 Red Ensigns so far. It's not the Canadian flag per se, so does that mean that the guys who bought them - most of them veterans - aren't Canadian enough for you?"


And I keep my grandfather's WWII red ensign in the most special place of all.

BUT I say again it is not the flag of today. It is not the flag of Canadian unity, and it is not a flag that should share space during a national time of rememberance.

"Mr. Davis, fly the damned flag in honour of those Americans who have died in OUR service, and those Canadians who have died in THEIR service. This is about remembrance, not politics. Human beings. If you don't have an AMerican flag, I'll lend you mine."

Jeff, I'll lend you a U.S. flag too. But that will not change the way we remember.

Don't forget: whether draft dogder, deserter, or honorably discharged from foreign services, those men and women choose to live in CANADA and no where else.

JD
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Old 06-11-04, 18:41
Alex Blair (RIP) Alex Blair (RIP) is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bill Mulholland
"At the going down of the sun, and in the morning,
we will remember them."

Bill Mulholland MMM, CD(3Bars)
WEll Said ,Bill...
NOw about flags....

Check it out...that is why we have GOOGLE....

With flags of other sovereign nations*

The National Flag of Canada, when flown or paraded, takes precedence over all other national flags. When flown with the flags of other sovereign nations, all flags should be flown on separate flagpoles/masts and at the same height, all being of the same size, with the National Flag of Canada occupying the position of honour.

*The flag configurations shown in figures 11 to 16 also apply when the National Flag of Canada is flown with one or more provincial/territorial flag.

The National Flag should be raised first and lowered last, unless the number of flags permits their being raised and lowered simultaneously.

With the flag of one other nation, the National Flag of Canada should be on the left of the observer facing the flags; both should be at the same height (Figure 11).


Figure 11



When crossed with a flag of another sovereign nation, the National Flag of Canada should be on the left of the observer facing the flags; the flagpole bearing the National Flag of Canada should be in front of the pole of the other flag (Figure 12).


Figure 12



In a line of three flags, the National Flag of Canada should be in the centre. The other two flags should, in alphabetical order, be placed to the left and right of the National Flag respectively, from the point of view of the observer facing the three flagpoles/masts (Figure 13).


Figure 13



When there are more than three flagpoles/masts, the National Flag of Canada should be flown on the left of the observer facing the flags, followed by the flags representing the other sovereign nations ordered alphabetically. An additional National Flag of Canada may also be flown on the right at the end of the line (Figure 14).


Figure 14



In a semi-circle of flags representing a number of sovereign nations, the National Flag of Canada should be in the centre (Figure 15).


Figure 15



In an enclosed circle of flags representing a number of sovereign nations, the National Flag of Canada should be flown on the flagpole/mast immediately opposite the main entrance to a building or arena (Figure 16).

Alex Blair CD

http://www.canadianheritage.gc.ca/pr...quette/2_e.cfm
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  #21  
Old 06-11-04, 20:30
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Geoff, All,

Jon stated in another thread that 'times are changing'. This in regard to the definition of veteran. He is correct. Times are changing and have changed.

Nowhere did I state that our national flags of yore be ignored or disrespected. I did state that the Maple Leaf was the flag of today and (in these changed times) be carried to exclusively.

Nowhere did I state that servicemen from any place be ignored, or go unremembered. I hotly said fly Canada's flag only.

This is not a day marking a special or one time event such as DDay. This is a day that represents our men and women who served and fought in all wars in all theatres, under many flags from Winnipeg to Afghanistan and beyond. Our one flag (of today) should be representative for all.

Our ceremonies of rememberance are not just for those who served. It is an ongoing affirmation of Canadian strength for our impressionable young and new Canadians. Let them look up and see ONE flag.

Geoff, Canadian (dis)unity in our Trudeau spangled post Pearson Canada is, as you state, a federally driven agenda that knows few remedies. Let's not let our flag (of today) become a victim to patchwork multi cult. Let's fly our flag to the exclusion of all others and celebrate that Quebec is still within Federation.

Lastly, Geoff, the draft dodger issue DOES belong here. It has nothing to do with the men themselves but there was a serious movement to create a town center memorial for draft dodgers here in BC. It was shot down. But that it came up along with a movement for Canada to actively harbour U.S. deserters is disturbing. In my opinion the best way to combat this kind of thing is to make sure that our National Flag (of today) gets a pre-eminent place in people's mind and hearts.

Rgds All,

JD
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Old 07-11-04, 00:27
Bill Murray Bill Murray is offline
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I'm going to weigh in here for a few moments and if I screw it up, please forgive me.

As an American, albeit one who lived in Canada for two years and have many, many Canadian friends, I would feel honoured and humbled if Canadians chose to fly the American flag in remembrance of those Canadian citizens who served in a conflict which their country was not directly involved in or, even supportive of. They made a choice, they were there and many did not come back.

As that same American, I can understand and frankly, support, the wishes of the many that Canadians should remember the 11th of November in the context of Canadians who served, were wounded or died in the service of Canada.

Canada has, as have most all of the former British Empire and now, I guess we still call it the Commonwealth, been drawn into many conflicts since, let us say 1900, that were not of your choosing and in many cases causes that you did not absolutely support but you did because of loyalty to your
British heritage. Given my US Marine Corps background, I can understand that and support it.

To fast forward to more or less the present:

Post 1945 and here I refer to the virtual collapse of the British Empire over a period of years after that year, most American politicians and probably most Americans assumed that Canada would align itself with the US due to the geographic proximity to us.

From 1945 until roughly 1965, I think that this was more or less the case. VietNam changed that and in my opinion put Canada on a more independent path which I think was probably for the better for Canada. Over the ensuing almost 40 years we managed to patch things back together again and then came the Iraq situation.

It is not my intent to get into the bully pulpit, even if I could, about the Iraq situation but I see it as a contextual parallel to the VietNam situation vis a vis our relationships (Canada/America).

I think what I am trying to get to here is that it is sad that outside influences seem to colour our immediate reactions to a lot of day to day things that we have to deal with.

If the question of which flag to fly in Canada for this year's Veterans Celebration had been asked in 2001, or, well, pick your non confrontational year, the conversation may have well been a bit different.

As a total side note, I watched the first half of "They were Soldiers" with Mel Gibson last night and intend to watch the last half tonight. Great film and it could have well been Canadians, Brits, Anzacs and, yes, maybe even the "bad guys".
Reminds me of my father.
I do expect a good response from GWB. I am perhaps the only one who does not prostitute his unfortunate legacy of family names which seems to be the latest great sport on this board.

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  #23  
Old 07-11-04, 02:57
Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)'s Avatar
Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP) Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP) is offline
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Default Re: Bill

I DO thank you for your input and insights, sir. We have valued your contributions here since the day you found us, and will continue to do so regards any issue which comes up.

By "GWB" I presume you mean me (as opposed to your President), and if that's the case, rest assured the 'Spinnington-Ballington' references are taken in the good humour in which they were intended. Some of the original propagators I number amongst my closest friends.

I WILL get them back eventually, of course. When they least expect it...

I would like you to know that I bought my American flag on 9/12/01. I've known a lot of Yanks for a lot of years, but regardless of our political differences I will stand tall for any man willing to put his life on the line in the cause of freedom.

That was the case for the Americans who came north in 1939... and for those of us who went south in 1965. For our stalwart fellows who joined yours in Afghanistan, and by all indicators, performed admirably.

Soldiers are soldiers.

Whether or not our governments have agreed with one another, our PEOPLE have generally understood each other, and have STOOD BY each other through thick-and-thin. THAT'S what's important. Don't listen to the sycophants banging their heads against the wall, especially not those select morons in Ottawa. Human beings with shared values get along... and soldiers of any nation understand one another intrinsically.... we have to - we live for one another, fight for one another, and if necessary, die for one another. As your [excellent] movie says... 'one another is all we have' (BTW, I hope you have the DVD version... ensure you watch the deleted scenes stuff).

I have a Red Ensign, a Canadian flag and a Stars 'n Stripes. I'm proud of all three. I DO, however, need a British Union Flag to complete my collection, and I reckon Nigel will be on my case shortly ref a Scottish Cross of St. Andrew flag... mind you, that's MY blood talking too...

Hell, I think I'll have a wee dram of The Creature m'self now, come to think of it...

Thanks for behaving yourselves here, lads... I DO think this is a worthwhile subject to explore.
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Old 07-11-04, 04:42
Bill Murray Bill Murray is offline
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Default Minor course corrections

The film I mentioned earlier and which I am watching the second half of now is not "They were soldiers" but rather, "We were soldiers".
The reference to GWB was not to George W Bush, it was to you my most favorite web site owner. Let it be known that we Americans can have quite enough sport with our own GWB without my having to add to your problems with other members here who cannot seem to fathom your wisdom and wit.

As I type these last last words, the movie is just ending and may I say that as an individual I found it a moving experience which both portrays the bravado of war and the tragedy of war. I am not sure exactly if Mr. Gibson was trying to make a statement at this particular juncture but a quote at the end of the film went something like, " they did not fight for a cause, did not fight for their country, they fought for each other".

What I drew from that is something that has been in the back of my mind for many, many years. Even the most gung ho servicemen I have known, many, many over the years, are unanimous in saying something like, "I like to train for what might happen but I hope I never have to put it to use".

It is now 2040 hours and it is obvious that I should sign off.

My dear Canadian friends, fly your flag proudly this coming Thursday. You and your country have earned it many times over.
Bill
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Old 07-11-04, 14:22
Rod Diery Rod Diery is offline
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Default Re: Flags

Quote:
Originally posted by Tony Smith
Aussies in Vietnam also fought under the Stars and Stripes. Do we care? It's much more importantant to remember those who went, why they went and those who didn't come back.
Just a quick correction Tony. Aussies in Vietnam fought under the Australian flag not the Stars and Stripes. They may have fought with the Yanks and, at times under American command, but they always fought under their own flag.

I agree whole heartedly with all your other remarks.

Rod
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  #26  
Old 07-11-04, 15:13
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To all of you.

This is a wonderful thread. Wonderful to read your minds speak your hearts.

Thank you for that.
(I DO listen sometimes to ya know )

Regards the Monument to honour Viet Nam Vets who dodged to (Nelson BC area) ... I recently read that story ... I found it disturbing and sad I'm glad there was enough hoopla to quash that plan. Its just not appropriate to honour that ...at least not from my hearts point of viewand logic. Sad fact of service is sometimes serving missions which go against the individuals heart ... but the loyalty and duty is to the call to duty for the whole. The dodgers, perhaps, chose the wrong path in career, and in ... well ... actions. ... is for it now I'll bet.

Regards flying flags..... since this is such an individual personal opinion thing, my opinion is:

1) Canadian Flag, current, hold precedence as that is the flag served under now.
2) Red Ensign ... I want to see it up there too.
3) Any flag Canadians served under as Canadians or for Canada ... fly it.
4) BYOF/FYOF (bring your own flag/fly your own flag) to symbolize the Canadians service

We all KNOW in our hearts and minds which is our current Canadian flag and that we are especially honouring our very own Canadian ... with room inour big Canadianhearts and minds to recognize and acknowledge ... SOLDIERS period.

REMEMBRANCE ... Lest We Forget ... remember whats important ... REMEMBRANCE and HONOUR

I have my Red Ensign (thank you BALLINGTON RAYSUNWINSUN) and a tiny current pattern.

Karmen who talks to much, still much to learn, and far to grow.

Karmen
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  #27  
Old 07-11-04, 22:51
Bill Murray Bill Murray is offline
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Evening Karmen:

Thanks for your post too. I believe I have probably read almost every one of your posts but do not remember responding to one.
I have always considered you to be one of the most important contributors here with not only your wit but also your insight. You pose questions and make statements that many of us big tough guys are to timid to ask or bring up. You got a big set, girl and I would hate to meet you in a dark alley with your frying pan.
We need a "nanner" icon for this board (the dancing banana that is all the rage for a "kudos" message.

To more mundane things, I have a couple of questions.

1. What is a CD?
2. Karmen did you mean a monument to vets or dodgers?
3. Could someone do me the kindness to post a small pic of the three flags you keep going on about. This is all new to me.

On the bar I have on my back porch, I fly 5 small desktop size flags. They represent the country of my birth, China and the four other countries I have lived in, the US, Canada, Sweden and Peru.
The Canadian flag I have I got in roughly 1979 and it has a red Maple Leaf on a white panel flanked by two red panels. Is that the current one or the one before the current one?

Since I am rarely serious for any length of time, let me close out this one by telling you Karmen that in addition to all that I have learned from your posts, some of them have a second value to me. When I am over tired and cannot go to sleep, I sometimes pull up one of your longer threads to read and before too long I am dozing off at the desk.


Bill
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  #28  
Old 07-11-04, 23:17
Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)'s Avatar
Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP) Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP) is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bill Murray
To more mundane things, I have a couple of questions.

1. What is a CD?
2. Karmen did you mean a monument to vets or dodgers?
3. Could someone do me the kindness to post a small pic of the three flags you keep going on about. This is all new to me.

On the bar I have on my back porch, I fly 5 small desktop size flags. They represent the country of my birth, China and the four other countries I have lived in, the US, Canada, Sweden and Peru.
The Canadian flag I have I got in roughly 1979 and it has a red Maple Leaf on a white panel flanked by two red panels. Is that the current one or the one before the current one?
Bill,

(1) The CD is 'Canadian Decoration', awarded for 12 years service whether in the regular forces or militia. For each subsequent 12 years service, a clasp is awarded, which signifies a subsequent award; as you can see, there are a few here who have put in a hell of a lot of time in uniform.

(2) There was a local movement on to create a permanent monument in Nelson, British Columbia to "honour" American draft dodgers who fled there to escape military service during the Viet Nam war. Thankfully, that idea was quashed.

(3) Up until 1922, the official flag of Canada was what is commonly referred to as the Union Jack, but more properly called the British Union Flag. In 1922, as a derivation of previous unofficial iterations, the Canadian Red Ensign was adopted, and flew alongside the Union Flag. As time went on, it became more significant in representing an independent Canada, although the Union Flag was also still flown. This 1922-pattern Red Ensign, a reproduction of which I sell (see my thread in the For Sale Forum for a picture) was the flag under which our people went to war in WW2. It was modified to be more politically correct in 1957, then replaced in the sixties by the current flag which you describe.

Does this help?
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  #29  
Old 08-11-04, 00:04
Bill Murray Bill Murray is offline
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Five by Five Mr. G.

I am so removed nowadays from the active military scene that I do not know if the practice continues but in the USMC, one used to receive a "hashmark" for each 4 years of service which was really only displayed on one's dress jacket as opposed to the regular uniform shirt. I do not remember now if there was a ribbon to be worn on one's blouse shirt. This was only given to what we call enlisted personnel.

Interesting about the flag issue. I do not know the significance of the coat of arms on the flag you sell but it does seem to me that the Maple Leaf flag represents what I, as an outsider, well, Canada.

As to the query about "vets versus deserters" I think Karmen had a keystroke glitch. That was what I thought she meant. Not to get into a discussion about that but I use the PC correct term of my generation and I believe it is now probably more correct to use the term "protesters" or something like that. As in many cases in this world, time heals a lot of wounds but as a product of my generation, it would disturb me to have a memorial raised to essentially "celebrate" what took place. It almost seems to me to be some folks wanting to make a political statement and using that situation to further their cause. So what else is new????

Before I leave this thread, one more thing about the flag issue.
Am I missing some significance in the layout of the current flag?
To me it is a fairly simple layout but as is often the case the arrangement of colours etc. can have some sort of message that goes totally over my head.
:

Bill
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  #30  
Old 08-11-04, 00:14
Mark W. Tonner's Avatar
Mark W. Tonner Mark W. Tonner is offline
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Psst...Geoff...the clasp is for each subsequent 10 years of service, not 12 years, ie: 1st clasp - 22 yrs svc; 2nd clasp - 32 yrs svc; etc.....

Cheers
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