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  #1  
Old 15-07-16, 00:09
Bruce Parker (RIP) Bruce Parker (RIP) is offline
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Default Wireless of the Week - week 22

The term ‘Tannoy’ is a brand name for a British speaker manufacturer, however it has become synonymous with the loudspeaker system used to communicate with the guns in artillery formations during WW2.

The famous ‘Tannoy’ was used throughout the war by all Commonwealth forces and extensively mentioned in books written about the era. The Canadian version is the Telephones, Loudspeaking, No.2 (Canadian). This particular set was made by Northern Electric Company Limited in 1944.

Telephones, Loudspeaking, No.2 was used by Artillery battery commanders to communicate with the guns in a battery, either together or individually. Communication back to the battery command was accomplished through the speaker located at the guns. It was, in essence, a five way field phone switchboard combination.

The equipment consisted of a Telephone, Loudspeaker, No.2 Control Unit (in this example a Mk.1) and two pairs of Telephone, Loudspeaker, No.2 Loudspeakers. The Control Unit came in a wooden box 10-1/4” wide by 1-1/2” deep by 8-1/2” tall and weighing 22 lbs. It had a control panel with four numbered lamps, one for each gun in the battery, sockets for the microphone and headset, a power cable to an external battery and posts for the line connections. The headset and microphone were stored in the lid when not in use. As usual, there was a metal plate printed with working instructions inside the lid.

The Loudspeakers were also in wooden boxes and came in pairs that clipped together into a single unit for transporting. When opened, they had the speaker and four posts for line connections; the lower two for connecting to a 19 set system. On the top was a button which allowed the gun crew to communicate back to the Control Unit by speaking directly…and loudly…into the speaker. It is not unusual to see these speaker units used in place of headset earphones for wireless sets such as the No.11 and No.19.
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  #2  
Old 15-07-16, 12:07
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Mike Kelly Mike Kelly is offline
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Default Another

I found this one years ago,TRUVOX brand, I had many of the speakers but gave them away

The WW2 Niphan plugs are visible, the British ones . I have the original carbon mic here somewhere.
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  #3  
Old 17-07-16, 14:16
David Dunlop David Dunlop is offline
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Bruce.

I was reviewing this thread again and a couple of things struck me in Post #1.

Firstly...don't Gunners speak rather loudly anyway?

Second. The photo of the loudspeaker with all it's original markings caught my attention, as one of mine is identical.

I have heard many people over the years say quite emphatically these loudspeakers were never used as an audio output for the No. 19 Wireless Set, they were strictly part of an artillery battery communications system. But the original markings on these loudspeakers clearly shows two distinct options for land line connection. The upper terminals would appear to be intended for the artillery tannoy system, and the lower terminals for connection to a 19-Set.

But how is the 19-Set connection accomplished? There are no direct land line terminals on the 19-Set. There must be some sort of interface component required to tie the two pieces together. I thought perhaps the near side Wireless Remote Control Unit might be the answer, but no mention is made at all in the manual for this remote control, for that type of usage.

I think there is a Control Unit in the Wireless Set No. 19 kit options that was designed with land line terminals, but cannot recall the reference number for it, or if the loudspeaker was its intended purpose. One would think instructions would have been printed somewhere covering this form of loudspeaker usage.

An interesting mystery. Thanks for posting.

David
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  #4  
Old 17-07-16, 15:34
Bruce Parker (RIP) Bruce Parker (RIP) is offline
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Of course Gunners speak loud...they have to over all that racket!! Once they leave the army, they speak loud because they are deaf I figure.

Any time I've seen ham operators use these speakers for their 19 sets it's by adapting a snatch plug attached to a control unit. I bet the army did much the same, whether sanctioned by an official set of instructions or not.

If this is so, it would use the two wires for the headset speaker and attach them to the lower '19 Set' terminal posts. If there was any though whatever of 'sending' on the 19 set from the speaker of course this wouldn't work without something in the middle like an RCU or field phone. While possible, I expect these things were more likely used for their intended purpose as a commander to battery communication.

One explanation for the upper and lower posts could be that the upper allowed communication to and from the battery commander located nearby. The lower 19 set ones could be attached to a second line system linked to a wireless set for listening to information from a remote FOO.

I wish I had the manual.


Quote:
Originally Posted by David Dunlop View Post
Bruce.

I was reviewing this thread again and a couple of things struck me in Post #1.

Firstly...don't Gunners speak rather loudly anyway?

Second. The photo of the loudspeaker with all it's original markings caught my attention, as one of mine is identical.

I have heard many people over the years say quite emphatically these loudspeakers were never used as an audio output for the No. 19 Wireless Set, they were strictly part of an artillery battery communications system. But the original markings on these loudspeakers clearly shows two distinct options for land line connection. The upper terminals would appear to be intended for the artillery tannoy system, and the lower terminals for connection to a 19-Set.

But how is the 19-Set connection accomplished? There are no direct land line terminals on the 19-Set. There must be some sort of interface component required to tie the two pieces together. I thought perhaps the near side Wireless Remote Control Unit might be the answer, but no mention is made at all in the manual for this remote control, for that type of usage.

I think there is a Control Unit in the Wireless Set No. 19 kit options that was designed with land line terminals, but cannot recall the reference number for it, or if the loudspeaker was its intended purpose. One would think instructions would have been printed somewhere covering this form of loudspeaker usage.

An interesting mystery. Thanks for posting.

David
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  #5  
Old 17-07-16, 19:01
David Dunlop David Dunlop is offline
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While I think of it, Bruce, do you have any idea what the correct khaki, web strap is supposed to be used with the Loudspeakers? I have seen plain straight straps, Satchel Signals straps with the shoulder reinforcement and the Fullerphone/Telephone style with the Ground Spike fittings. Haven't a clue which is correct.


David
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  #6  
Old 28-01-17, 01:55
Jesse Browning Jesse Browning is offline
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The sexton has a 190 control box tapped for wires that run through the vehicle conduit to the speaker at the front of the crew compartment.
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  #7  
Old 28-01-17, 21:27
Chris Suslowicz Chris Suslowicz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse Browning View Post
The sexton has a 190 control box tapped for wires that run through the vehicle conduit to the speaker at the front of the crew compartment.
Looking at the Parts Identification List (FZ256/3), the 190 is very similar to Control Unit No.3 (A or B), except that there's an extra 270 ohm resistor somewhere on the top switch, and a 3-way tag board in place of the usual 4-way one in the top box. I suspect the resistor is connected in series with the feed to the loudspeaker terminals to limit the load on the WS19 output transformers and make it look a bit more like a set of headphones. There does not appear to be a volume control anywhere in the system, nor any facility for intercom use - the loudspeaker is output only by the look of it from the component listing.

Chris.
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  #8  
Old 28-01-17, 23:58
Jesse Browning Jesse Browning is offline
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Chris; does your reference give the values of the different resistors? I made a No.190 box out of a No 3 box using the wiring diagram on the lid of the main electrical junction box in the radio compartment. It doesnt give the value of the resistors. What I would prefer is an original No.190 box.
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  #9  
Old 29-01-17, 00:20
Chris Suslowicz Chris Suslowicz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse Browning View Post
Chris; does your reference give the values of the different resistors? I made a No.190 box out of a No 3 box using the wiring diagram on the lid of the main electrical junction box in the radio compartment. It doesnt give the value of the resistors. What I would prefer is an original No.190 box.
Ah, there are actually two resistors on the top switch, and 4 on the Normal/Rebroadcast switch (those are identical on 3A, 3B and 190).

The two new ones on the 190 are

17 - 1/4 W. Metallized 5,600 ohms +/- 10%
19 - 1/2 W. metallized 270 ohms +/- 10%

(Numbers are on the parts layout drawing, not component numbers.)

I wonder if there's a circuit diagram for that box in the other EMERs.

More later...

...sorry, we don't appear to have a circuit diagram of the control unit with component values. It's not in the 'First Echelon Work" EMER, which is all about operator and electrician maintenance, and the "2nd - 4th Echelon Work" just covers the set internals in extreme detail - nothing about control units.

Chris.

Last edited by Chris Suslowicz; 29-01-17 at 00:40. Reason: Post archive rummage and research - blank drawn.
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  #10  
Old 29-01-17, 00:23
Jesse Browning Jesse Browning is offline
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  #11  
Old 29-01-17, 00:26
Jesse Browning Jesse Browning is offline
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Super! Thanks!
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  #12  
Old 29-01-17, 01:09
Jesse Browning Jesse Browning is offline
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The pictures are better than that on my phone and tablet but lose clarity when put on photobucket
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  #13  
Old 29-01-17, 16:11
Jesse Browning Jesse Browning is offline
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Above the top switch, under the heading "LOUDSPEAKER" are "A","OFF", B. So clearly the loudspeaker was used for the 19 set.
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  #14  
Old 29-01-17, 18:13
Chris Suslowicz Chris Suslowicz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse Browning View Post
Above the top switch, under the heading "LOUDSPEAKER" are "A","OFF", B. So clearly the loudspeaker was used for the 19 set.
Yes, I'm trying to work out the switching arrangements. (In order to determine which resistor goes where, and what their purpose is.) There appears to be a feed from the 'Speech' line as well, presumably to add the intercom audio to the loudspeaker output.

Has anyone got the circuit diagram of the loudspeaker? (I assume the terminals connect to different tappings on the matching transformer, or the WS19 terminals bypass the push button/capacitor arrangement used with the telephone system.)

More in a while....

Chris.
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  #15  
Old 29-01-17, 18:22
Jesse Browning Jesse Browning is offline
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I could email you a better picture of the wiring diagram. The speaker I have only has two terminals. The only WWII picture I have of a speaker in a sexton shows only two terminals. I wonder if that would exclude its use with the radio?
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  #16  
Old 29-01-17, 19:39
Chris Suslowicz Chris Suslowicz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse Browning View Post
I could email you a better picture of the wiring diagram. The speaker I have only has two terminals. The only WWII picture I have of a speaker in a sexton shows only two terminals. I wonder if that would exclude its use with the radio?
No, if the Sexton has only two terminals, then it's only for use with the WS19 (I think).

Control Unit 190 is a bit complicated (well, they all got bit complicated when the rebroadcast facility was added), but I'm getting there.

The top (3 terminal) tagstrip is for Driver Intercom, and has Speech, Mic+ and Ground.

The next tagstrip (2 terminal) is for the loudspeaker connection.

The switch has 3 wafers with 3 sets of contacts on each; from left to right (as shown on the wiring plate):

1) Loudspeaker Return - connected to ground in all positions.

2) Loudspeaker Feed - selects source via 5, 7 & 8

3) not used

4) Feeds set audio into the intercom amplifier via a resistor (this is probably the 5,600 ohm resistor, because the contacts are connected to the A and B set Tel+ output (i.e. phones) and the wiper goes via the resistor to the intercom Mic+ connection).

5) 'A' set feed if rebroadcast selection set to A&B when on IC (I think).

6) not used

7) 'B' set set feed if rebroadcast selection set to A&B when on IC (I think).

8) Set selection to Speech (intercom output) line. Centre position shorts out a resistor - this will be the low value (270 ohm) one, I think, to compensate for the loudspeaker being disconnected.

9) 'A' set unattended line - connects this to ground if the loudspeaker is switched to 'B', so that the red lamp will light if the operator's droplead is also switched to 'B', indicating that nobody is monitoring the 'A' set output.

I think that's how it all works!

Chris.
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  #17  
Old 29-01-17, 21:04
Jesse Browning Jesse Browning is offline
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Sounds right. I installed the radio last year, but can only listen to it through the tannoy. Im in the process or rebuilding the 4 headsets used in the vehicle so the intercom can be utilized.
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  #18  
Old 30-01-17, 00:12
David Dunlop David Dunlop is offline
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Chris.

In Bruce's first post on this thread, last photo, the image is the information plate inside the cover. The section dealing with the loudspeaker states the two terminals marked '19-Set' are connected to windings of 30 ohm value to match the output from the I/C amp in the 19-Set, if that helps at all.

David
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Old 30-01-17, 08:55
Chris Suslowicz Chris Suslowicz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Dunlop View Post
Chris.

In Bruce's first post on this thread, last photo, the image is the information plate inside the cover. The section dealing with the loudspeaker states the two terminals marked '19-Set' are connected to windings of 30 ohm value to match the output from the I/C amp in the 19-Set, if that helps at all.

David
It does.

The loudspeaker is obviously a rather heavier load than a couple of headsets, so needs to connect to the IC amplifier rather than one of the set outputs.

The Control Unit 190 is an odd beast with a single droplead for the wireless operator, so everybody else must be using the intercom - either via Junction Distribution boxes (No.3 or No.4 because the Mic+ line feeds into the IC amplifier so it can't be for the power microphone) or the loudspeaker (presumably once the gun is deployed).

Chris.
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  #20  
Old 31-01-17, 15:41
Jesse Browning Jesse Browning is offline
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Does anyone have a 4 terminal Tannoy they would part with?
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  #21  
Old 09-03-17, 02:25
JRRDixon JRRDixon is offline
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Default Tannoy

What is the average price of the loudspeakers. Original paint complete. No strap. All lock hasps there. Original marking with stamp. Arrow with p beside it. Getting rid of a pair but don't want to rip anyone off.

Jason
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  #22  
Old 16-03-17, 22:19
Jesse Browning Jesse Browning is offline
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Something like that should just be free..... Really though; someone who knows the market chime in so he knows what to charge me. Jesse.
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  #23  
Old 17-03-17, 00:34
Perry Kitson Perry Kitson is offline
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Jesse,

Can I ask you where you got the wiring diagram plate for the radio compartment junction box? I have been looking for one for some time now.

thanks, Perry
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  #24  
Old 17-03-17, 18:17
Jesse Browning Jesse Browning is offline
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Perry. There are two. One screwed to each side of the lid of the junction box in the radio compartment. The one, very detailed that I posted here; and the other that shows how the radio wiring is connected to the junction blocks inside the box ( also pictured on page 191 of the operators manual). Both came with the vehicle. Maybe the derilect Sextons in Huntsville still have them. They were, interestingly, 2056 and2057. Maybe the plates were deleted on later vehicles such as yours. They're really of no practical use, being mounted in the most difficult place to see that they are. Jesse.

Last edited by Jesse Browning; 17-03-17 at 18:19. Reason: Grammar
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  #25  
Old 18-03-17, 23:26
Perry Kitson Perry Kitson is offline
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Thanks Jesse. I have sent an email your way.

Perry
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  #26  
Old 23-03-17, 01:37
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Default loudspeaker in the field

a screen capture I made from a 1953 Govt 'Pictorial Parade'.
161 Battery (25 lbers) in Korea.
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