The Deelen Dump in Holland

[Hendrik van Oorspronk]

Herewith a picture of "Dump Deelen" I think it was the biggest CMP vehicle park after WWII in Europe I was told the only way you could steel the Jeeps was in lots of 5, this were the lots they were sold, so you could them drive out threw the Gate.

Green Greetings Hendrik

[Bob Moseley (RIP)]

Hello Hendrik
Lovely picture although it reminds me of a typical Corowa parade.
Bob

[Rolf S. Ask]

O'boy O'boy
C8A's as far as I can see....

Rolf

[Les Freathy]

I have been fascinated ever since Barts article in wheels and tracks. are there more photos around on the Dutch dumps
Les

[Bill Miller]

Hendrik,

What is the source of this photo? Is it possible to get a larger/clearer copy of it? It could be my eyes playing tricks on me, but I think the Chev, second from the right is from the 1CACR RHQ, the markings look to be about right?

Always on the lookout for "kangaroo" photos...

Bill.

[Brian Gough]

Hendrik, that's a great photo, thanks for posting.

Did you notice the horseshoe on the radiator screen of the first HUP?

Bill, this photo was previously posted last year by Hanno in this thread: As good as new...

and he did quote a source.

Brian

[Hendrik van Oorspronk]

One photo more, some wreckers.

Hendrik

[Steve Guthrie]

Hi there.

Wow, great shot!

Apparently the M1A1 was only issued to the RCE Railway operating group and there were very few actually used.

Well, there's THREE of them, I wonder how many there were in total?

Steve

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Bill Miller
It could be my eyes playing tricks on me, but I think the Chev, second from the right is from the 1CACR RHQ, the markings look to be about right?

Bill, well spotted, I think you are right!
As Brian noted, I posted this picture earlier on. I found it on the national press agency's website. Will see if I can get a better scan/print of it without having to shell out the regular price for a copy. Stay tuned.

Hanno

[wim sikkelbein]

check out
http://beeldbank.nationaalarchief.nl/

this photo from the above mentioned website:

[Les Freathy]

Sorry Wim i cant read Dutch, would you be kind enough to explain the system on the site
cheers
Les

[wim sikkelbein]

Les to clarify things:

Enter your search word in the box next to the word "zoek" for a quick search.
If you want a more specific search click on "uitgebreid zoeken"
It shows:

Beschrijving description
Dag maand jaar day month year
Periode vanaf tot en met periods from until (4 digit years)
Trefwoord entry

And the list goes on.....

Just typing from until 1945 got me 9534 hits on 477 pages

But as you already mentioned all is in Dutch

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Bill Miller
Is it possible to get a larger/clearer copy of it? It could be my eyes playing tricks on me, but I think the Chev, second from the right is from the 1CACR RHQ, the markings look to be about right?

When I last met Bill, he showed me a larger print of this photo which he managed to get hold of. As he suspected, this HUP indeed sports the markings of the 1CACR!

Hanno

[Bill Miller]

Here is the close up.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Bill Miller
Eagle eyes!

Four eyes, wasn't it?

But very well spotted!

[welbike]

Hi All, went to a very interesting presentation about the "Deelen Dump" last night, where at one time about 35.000 mostly canadian (used) Vehicles were amassed.

This took place at the Aircrash museum, adjacent to Deelen airfield, where the vehicle dump was located from 1945 to 1947. there were lots of very rare pictures and a 10 minute film, about the vehicles, the presentation went about the background of the various deals going on, and the incredible stealing and pilfering that went on during the 2,5 years of operation of the dump, with and without knowledge of the people who ran the camp, and even after a 1000volt electrified fence was put up!!

Also a former workman spoke briefly about his time there, and how parts were smuggled out under the guards noses, and sometimes up to 5 whole trucks at the time!!

Also stories, which I had heard before from ex workmen there, years ago, resurfaced, and went from crushing HD WLC's with a sherman tank, to riding WLC's into a bomb crater, and jumping of at the last moment, and see who got his furthest into the hole!!!

There was also a big insight about the financial picture, and how much the vehicles cost at the time, and how they were evaluated etc. etc. all this info is owned by the museum.

Many items that were dugup on the site are also on display, but most is left on site, as who wanted hundreds of Canadian built lathes, which filled up one bomb crater???

If anyone is interested in this, I highly recommend to visit the museum, when in the neighborhood, they show the little film there aswell, alas not for sale.

here a link to the museum, could not find an english language button?

http://www.museumvlbdeelen.nl/index-1.html

Cheers,

Lex Schmidt

[Alex van de Wetering]

Canadian Army Newsreel, No. 105 (1945)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBIX...HlmW&index=143

Does he say "Arnhem airport" (=Deelen) at 6:54?

Some lovely footage of CMP's, Diamond T's, Scout cars and armoured cars being demobbed.

DEMOB news item starts at 6:26. At least one Monkey face at 7:18.

Alex

[David Dunlop]

I wonder what the soil would be like there, if it would be friendly to anything buried there for so long?

Also wonder if the ground water has suffered any effects from all the vehicular fluids dumped there and items buried whole?


David

[welbike]

David, the soil there is loose sand, no clay or anything, so anything found nowadays is beyond using I would say, have various parts that came from there 20 years ago, mostly motorcycle blackout masks etc. and they were only just salvageable, but also not from Deelen, but Oosterbeek, a part for a 75mm Pack Howitzer, that a friend dug up, and is cast steel, and very usable!! is on one of my Pack Howitzers right now!

PS, better not talk about the environmental issues, someone might want to clean it all up, but the costs would not be justifyable.....

Image (5).jpg mar29#19.jpg Pack 2003.jpg

Cheers,

Lex

[Neilie]

At the risk of being chided for displaying models on this forum, I thought some may be interested in my scratch-built 1/76 scale Ward Lafrance M1A1 Heavy Wrecker of the 1st Railway Operating Coy RCE similar to the one in the photo a few posts up.

Cheers,

Neil

[servicepub (RIP)]

I am looking for one good photo of CMPs at the Deleen dump. However, I need this in hi-res so screen-grabs won't work.
Thnx,
C

[Alex van de Wetering]

Clive,

I presume you need the picture for publication, so I don't know if pics from the National archive are suitable. However the Dutch National Archives have some awesome pictures of CMPs at the Deelen dump.

http://www.gahetna.nl/collectie/afbe...oekterm/deelen

http://www.gahetna.nl/collectie/afbe...len%20autodump

http://www.gahetna.nl/collectie/afbe...len%20autodump


Source: www.gahetna.nl

[servicepub (RIP)]

Thanks Alex. I will see about getting one of these photos.
Clive

[Phil Waterman]

Hi Alex

Thanks for bring another of the great photo archives sites back to the forefront.

Do we have an open thread on photo archive sites? As was pointed out in another thread last week many of the Archive Sites like AWM are making more stuff available all the time so just because we have looked through a site once something new may show up making returned visits worth while.

Hi Clive

If you are looking for new HI RES photos does that mean you have another project in the works?

Cheers Phil

[servicepub (RIP)]

Originally Posted by Phil Waterman

Hi Clive

If you are looking for new HI RES photos does that mean you have another project in the works?

Cheers Phil

Not a new project. I discuss the disposal of CMPs in "Drive to Victory" and needed a good photo to illustrate the Deleen vehicle park.

C

[David Dunlop]

This location has become famous for Canadian Military Vehicle buffs because of the presence at the end of the war of the large vehicle depot established there. Can anyone provide some background history of the location?

Over the years I have seen it referred to as a large piece of farm property, government land, and an airfield. If it was an airfield, was it a prewar Dutch air base, or was it an air field built by the Germans during the war? It is hard to tell from most photos of the vehicles in storage there, that it might have been an airfield. Always seems to be lots of trees and rolling ground in the photos.

David

[Hanno Spoelstra]

David,

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deelen_Air_Base for a short history of the airfield. It is still in use as an airbase, albeit not a very important / active one.

HTH,

[David Dunlop]

Hanno.

Curiosity question(s).

Were the vehicles stored at Deelen at the end of the war always the property of the Canadian Government? This would imply either some form of limited Canadian bureaucratic presence there to oversee sales, or Dutch personnel acting as sales agents for the Canadian Government.

Alternatively, at some point the Canadian Government might have transferred these vehicle assets directly to the Dutch Government for disposal.

Or, perhaps, a combination of the two.

I am just trying to wrap my head around how Canada sold large blocks of specific vehicles and related spares to other countries after the war, if most of this equipment was sitting in Europe in depots like Deelen.

David

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Hello David,

I tried to find some reliable sources on this subject:


1) In July 1945 1 and 2 Cdn Demobilization Depot were mobilized under the command of the First Canadian Army - see https://www.canadiansoldiers.com/org.../rcocorbat.htm
These units were tasked with demobilizing Canadian troops in NWE. One of the tasks at hand must have been demobilizing not only troops but also vehicles and other Canadian Army assets.


2) Canadian Army Newsreel no.105 mentions RCEME units were tasked with documenting and classifying each unit of transport, which were then handed over to the Canadian Army Vehicle Demob Park at Arnhem Airport (Deelen is close to Arnhem). The reporter notes that "approx. 36,000 vehicles were stored at the Park and more ariving daily. When the assembly was completed the contents of the Park were turned over to the War Assets Board, which will sell it to bring money back to the Treasury. France, Belgium and Holland were bargaining for the whole establishment."

105.5 Army Vehicles Demobbed
Royal Canadian Electrical and Mechanical Engineers classify trucks as they drive by; close-ups of shields, signs, numbers on vehicles. Trucks, armoured cars, tanks, jeeps and other military vehicles parked on a large military vehicle parking lot at the Arnhem Airport, Holland.
Screenshot_2020-04-13 Canadian Army Newsreel No 105.jpg

3) The No. 1 Demob Vehicle Park is also mentioned in War Junk: Munitions Disposal and Postwar Reconstruction in Canada by Alex Souchen:

Screenshot_2020-04-13 War Junk.jpg

4) Note that there were several locations where the vehicles were stored, as described in Wheels & Tracks magazine (Bart Vanderveen worked as a conscript on one of the vehicle parks):

ISSUE No. 55 (April 1996)
Canadian Disposals and Returns - Canada-Europe; some vehicles did it twice.
The Dutch Inheritance (1) - Deelen Demob Vehicle Park.
The Dutch Inheritance (2) - The Enschede Dump.
Holland's Vehicle Parks - Soesterberg: 1 VP, Stroe: 2 VP.

5) A search on this forum yields generic info, plus a few people mentioning their relatives worked at Deelen after the war.


To answer your question:

Originally Posted by David Dunlop

I am just trying to wrap my head around how Canada sold large blocks of specific vehicles and related spares to other countries after the war, if most of this equipment was sitting in Europe in depots like Deelen.

As far as I can tell the Canadian government did not sell blocks of vehicles, but rather their entire inventory one year after the war ended. They transferred all the vehicles assembled in Dutch depots in a deal struck with the Dutch government. They agreed on a (partial) trade against the costs the Dutch government was making for billeting and repatriating Canadian troops. I will see if I can find more sources on this subject later.

Hope this helps to give you some more insights.

PS: I think the upcoming book War Junk (https://www.ubcpress.ca/war-junk) will have more indepth insights into this subject.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

They agreed on a (partial) trade against the costs the Dutch government was making for billeting and repatriating Canadian troops. I will see if I can find more sources on this subject later.

From Alex Souchen's dissertation "Peace Dividend: The War Assets Corporation and the Disposal of Canada's Munitions and Supplies, 1943-1948":

Later in May 1946 (and as part of the war claims settlement), the Dutch purchased all the remaining medical and dental supplies situated in the Netherlands (mostly at Alverna), Canadian General Hospitals No. 2, 6, 8, 10, 12, and 21, and all the remaining armoured and unarmoured vehicles located at the Deelen airfield.

It is worthwhile to download Souchen's dissertation for a good read on how Canada disposed of its Army's assets.