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  #1  
Old 19-01-10, 15:25
Swiper Swiper is offline
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Default Repro Carrier Wheels?

I wondered if anyone repros Carrier wheels and how much they were going for at the moment, me and a few mates have been starting reproducing them but wanted to know what the rough going rate was on reproed Wheels, and whether it was cost-effective enough for us to entertain this idea!

*To clarify these are the road wheels - ideally for sale in the UK*

Last edited by Swiper; 19-01-10 at 16:08.
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  #2  
Old 19-01-10, 18:39
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where are you located ? are you repro'ing the whole casts or just the rubbers ?
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__5th Div___46th Div__
1942 Ford Universal Carrier No.3 MkI*
Lower Hull No. 10131
War Department CT54508 (SOLD)
1944 Ford Universal Carrier MkII* (under restoration).
1944 Morris C8 radio body (under restoration).
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  #3  
Old 19-01-10, 18:48
Swiper Swiper is offline
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I'm in Swansea, S. Wales. The idea is to reproduce the full cast wheel with rubbers. I'm just poking interest to see if there is enough to do it (with enough of a margin), and then doing the legwork, and producing batches of them.

Since I travel to plenty of reenacting shows in the UK we'd most likely take them with us to shows and hopefully start reproing other bits. (At least this is the general idea!)
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  #4  
Old 19-01-10, 22:21
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iam just up the road (6 hours or so hahahaha) well usually the castings on the wheels survive its the rubbers that get killed, and i can tell you i would like my full set re rubbered ! the idler wheels are different to the road wheels, i believe the british and Canadian ones are CTL 94 are road wheels, and the CTL 17's are the front idlers (part numbers are without looking so off the top of my head) i have both if you need patterns to use. as i say i need mine re rubbered but the castings are all good. i know that possibly Martyn and Kevin also have a stack of wheels we could pool the lot and get them re rubbered pending on costs (and if they have any that need re done) i think this would be more marketable venture than doing full wheels as the machine work etc involved would be costly, that said if you can do them it is handy to know incase anyone smashes a wheel.

if you can repro all the ammo bins and boxes that would be handy (as long as they are not silly prices ie £300 per box ??????!!!!!!!
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__5th Div___46th Div__
1942 Ford Universal Carrier No.3 MkI*
Lower Hull No. 10131
War Department CT54508 (SOLD)
1944 Ford Universal Carrier MkII* (under restoration).
1944 Morris C8 radio body (under restoration).
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  #5  
Old 19-01-10, 23:40
Swiper Swiper is offline
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Richard that sounds pretty good. I'm lucky to have a good (and somewhat eccentric...) group of talents at university to look into this.

I've looked at ammo bins and discussed this with a few of the boys for a while, so I'll give them a shout and get this looked at after exams finish this weekend.

We'd need patterns, so drop me a PM with your email mate and we'll take it from there. We've got some pretty good contacts down here so it seems very reasonable.
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  #6  
Old 09-05-10, 23:05
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Thumbs up re-rubbering road wheels

Hi there! If things work out for you in the UK I would also be interested in getting my wheels re-rubbered- almost the whole set are shot! I have one wheel where the rim is slightly broken but its fine for now- but if you do start making the whole wheels I might be in for one....Any thoughts on making new track sections??
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  #7  
Old 10-05-10, 07:37
Maurice Donckers Maurice Donckers is offline
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I Can still get NOS wheels in Belgium , the dealer is asking 150to 200€ each , depends on type and condition.
If somebody needs some let me know.
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  #8  
Old 10-05-10, 21:09
eddy8men eddy8men is offline
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hi maurice
i've just bought a mk1 from midwest military in minnesota and from the description i think i'll need 3 can you give me the dealers details.

cheers eddy
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  #9  
Old 11-05-10, 00:33
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Lynn Eades Lynn Eades is offline
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Default Guys

200 euros is a lot of hay. Why dont you guys get together, and do what you have to do to re rubber your wheels. The wheels themselves are seldom stuffed. You wouldnt have to set up two moulds. The front idler is 1 inch dia smaller. If you use the modern stuff they use on forklift(hoist) wheels, that stuff is machineable. Just make them all the same and turn what you need to.
It sounds like there is a bunch of you who want a lot of wheels done. Pool your resources, and get a mould made.
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  #10  
Old 11-05-10, 05:27
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Default 2 cents worth

Just for the record, although I have two original idlers with perished rubber, My carrier is on modified (by the Army) Australian LP Carrier roadwheels which are shot. British pattern roaqdwheels are impossible to locate in WA in any condition.

If I knew I could buy brand new british pattern roadwheels or remanufactured examples, even with shipping I would seriously consider taking the plunge...

Cheers

Phill
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  #11  
Old 11-05-10, 16:39
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My Dad runs a Steel / Iron / Nimonic foundry in the West Midlands so I can put you in touch if you want.... They have made many wartime bits and bobs in the past, but specialise on Vintage engine blocks and heads for racing. A road wheel is an easy job, but liasing with the foundry before you make the patterns is a must or you can end up with a pattern which adds a lot of cost to the casting price, due to moulding difficulties.

PS. Just moments ago I got off the phone with Dad and would you believe it, the other day someone phoned up and asked about getting some carrier track made! He pointed them in the direction of Surface Processing Ltd as the guy had the full set of track but it was all rusted solid.... this company do pickling and he advised him it would be cheaper to free up the originals than go for new ones just yet!
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Last edited by ajmac; 11-05-10 at 16:45.
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  #12  
Old 12-05-10, 00:41
martyn martyn is offline
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Default pattens

I have looked in to casting tracks and a master patten was going to be around £1000 before you do anything else,
as for the road wheels i wouldnt bother making the rims they turn up you would be best just buying a few and getting a good rubber firm and do a exchange service lot less messing around ......

I also have looked in to the wheels and had a quote for about £150 each wheel for one or two but if had say 10 prob get them for £100 each maybe less.
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  #13  
Old 12-05-10, 15:02
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Lightbulb we need to pool resources!

Hi folks, we all seem to be saying the same thing- can we find someone to reliably (and thats a must given poor quality rubber will either shift off the wheel if not bonded properly I understand, and that the rubber will simply bust up quickly if not good quality) re-rubber good wheels? Can we find someone to forge new ones if required? can we get some NEW track made?
even 1000 stg (a lot for any one of us) becomes maybe reasonable if there are 5 of us going in....I would guess such a wheel mould would last a while??
Regarding the tracks- I guess most of us don't do much mileage, but that over the years since production maybe many of you will, like me, have track which is down to its last few links removal before "placement required" as per instruction manual...??
If anyone wants to pool resources to either buy old wheels cheaper, re-rubber old wheels, cast new ones, cast new links- I'm in! email me for contact number if you're interested...or anyone else more experienced can co-ordinate if you like...I'm only a newbie to all this....
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  #14  
Old 12-05-10, 15:31
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Seriously - if I can get a track link and pin, I can ask my Dads company to quote for the pattern equipment and piece price either as cast or finish machined. Manganese Steel I presume. Casting will only be a few pounds but pattern costs may well be shocking. If someone has a CAD drawing of a link that would bring down the cost as we could get the pattern machined from resin - last forever.

How many links does a Carrier have per side?

Wheels:
How were they shod originally? Was the rubber cast around the rim or were the rubber tyres bushed over the finished rim?
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Last edited by ajmac; 12-05-10 at 16:15.
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  #15  
Old 12-05-10, 16:13
Swiper Swiper is offline
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Ok guys, I've had a few emails on this so I'll put it in the open!

I'm currently finishing my uni stuff and going Stateside in a few weeks to blow off steam. However, my 'team' are finally in the same situation as me and we're looking to push on with the wheels idea.

I hope to have an update by August. We have some good contacts and I may be entering the MV scene formally with a new resto company (and yes if it comes off Carriers will have a very good nod to them...)

Thats if I graduate and don't end up back at my parents who won't let me keep any 'rust' near the house
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  #16  
Old 12-05-10, 16:26
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There have been similar threads on this subject in the past few years. Perhaps there are some thoughts in them that may assist in your endeavours.

Your Track?

AutoCAD track Link
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  #17  
Old 12-05-10, 16:49
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my thoughts were to make a resin patern by using an actual link, i got pointed in the direction of a casting compound which you pour in two stages, it then sets into hard rubber, you then remove the link and pour in the resin compound and voila.

to answer your question AJ, yes it is manganese steel. i could get a link CAD'd but it would take a millenium to do it, a laser profiler would be better, just set the link up and the machine plots it into the system by passing lasers all over the link......would cost a bomb to do it though.
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__5th Div___46th Div__
1942 Ford Universal Carrier No.3 MkI*
Lower Hull No. 10131
War Department CT54508 (SOLD)
1944 Ford Universal Carrier MkII* (under restoration).
1944 Morris C8 radio body (under restoration).
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  #18  
Old 12-05-10, 17:44
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Trouble is you can't just make a pattern from an original, Steel shrinks (unlike Cast iron) so your end casting would be a scaled down version of what you started with! The pattern maker scales up the original when he makes the wooden / resin pattern to compensate for the shrinkage. Certain items can be mouled from an original, then the moulder can 'scrape' the sand to compensate for the srinkage. A few years ago Dad did a Model T wing support in steel using an original pushed into the sand, all it needed was a couple of cm adding to its length to allow for the change in size. Obviously the entire thing was a little smaller but it was only critical on the length.
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  #19  
Old 12-05-10, 18:38
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Default Wow this subject really hits people's needs!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Smith View Post
There have been similar threads on this subject in the past few years. Perhaps there are some thoughts in them that may assist in your endeavours.

Your Track?

AutoCAD track Link
Tony, thanks so much for the link to the similar threads- AJMAC & SWIPER, there's clearly a lot of potential info out there and even some possible original un-shrunk links (as far as track goes...) any more thoughts...there's clearly a market even if we don't have unlimited funds....
David
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  #20  
Old 12-05-10, 19:51
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as long as they are not ubber expensive then yes you would have a market for sale of the links however if they cost over half the value of a carrier, you might struggle but then again folks sometimes do anything to keep these beasts moving
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is mos redintegro

__5th Div___46th Div__
1942 Ford Universal Carrier No.3 MkI*
Lower Hull No. 10131
War Department CT54508 (SOLD)
1944 Ford Universal Carrier MkII* (under restoration).
1944 Morris C8 radio body (under restoration).
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  #21  
Old 12-05-10, 20:50
martyn martyn is offline
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Default pattens

This is how far i got.....

Took a NEW OLD STOCK track link to a patten makers left it with him he said a price for a wooden master link £1000 this is 10% larger due to shrinkage , casting the link isnt the problem they would cast them by the tonn thats the easy part the hard part is machining the holes do you make a jig and drill one hole at a time 2 holes per link, or do you get a multi head drill and do 5-7-10? still need a jig making. the costs of setting up is going to be major unless someone wins the lotto and wants to invest its not cost efective. we were looking at£10 per link minium then the track pins on top of that 167 links per side........
as for the wheels i have two made from neopreen look good and are hard wearing just a thort instead of rubber?
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  #22  
Old 12-05-10, 23:50
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That's the figure I was coming up with..... trouble is in the end someone will have to bite the bullet. A friend back at home does have a full machine shop in his farm out buildings... he builds NEW 1930s race engines... for a price.
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