Help ID some trinkets from my last visit to the Surplus store

[rob love]

I recently made another trip to my favorite surplus store and came home with a real mixed bag of items, some of which I can't ID. So I am hoping for some insight from others on the forum.

First two items are the curved type machete and the little adjustable "Indian" wrenches shown in the photo below. The machete has "LSR on the blade, which would indicate it's use was prior to 1949 when the Lake Superior Ragiment added "Scottish" to their name. Does anyone know what period these blades were used in and what their purpose was? What is the correct name for them?

The second items are the little adjustable wrenches. They have the term "Indian" on the handles, and a part number of 1F122868. Are these wrenches part of the EIS of the Indian motorcycles?

Lots more items in the batch, but I'll start with these two.

[chris vickery]

I think you lucked out there my friend...
I think the one item was called a matchette, cross between a hatchet and a machete.
Those do appear to be genuine Indian items. Wow.
Any goodies for me???

[rob love]

Sorry Chris, nothing for you this time, but I am keeping my eyes open.

I googled matchette and none of the images look like this one. For some reason I think I saw a photo of a similar knife included in one of the 25 pdr manuals....I'll have to check at work tomorrow.

Just remembered, there is some marking on the blade: ArtBrockvilleCanada. Does that mean anything to anyone?

edited to add:Looked at a blowup of the photo and it is Smart Brockville Canada. Found some info on them here: http://yesteryearstools.com/Yesterye...fg.%20Co..html

[rob love]

Looks like the knife is called a billhook. Here is a page on them including the same maker as shown on mine: http://billhooks.co.uk/photos-and-ot...y-billhooks-1/

OK, with that out of the way, does anyone have the manuals for the Canadian Indian motorcycle and could possibly confirm if these wrenches were EIS for those bikes.

[barriefield-brian]

I have one of these hook-bill machetes. I bought mine from surplus when I was a kid and used it to chop firewood when camping. Lost the handle years ago but it is in a leather sheath stamped J.E. Lortie Montreal 1942. The metal is marked in raised letters CF8F 1942 and also has a G inside a diamond. No C broad arrow so always wondered if they were military or not. Always wondered what they were used for as well. Cheers Brian

[rob love]

On the site for the Smart mfg Company, it shows where the G in the diamond was also used by Smart....maintained after the acquisition of the Gardiner tool Co of Montreal.

CF&F rings a bell, as I know I have seen it somewhere else. Found it, and it does have a connection with Smart: http://yesteryearstools.com/Yesterye...0Forgings.html

No C/l\ on mine either. Of the half dozen of these that I saw in the surplus store, more than half were missing their handles.

[Wayne Hingley]

Try this for the Indian wrench Rob... http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Indi...wAAOSwHMJYHjB5

Below is a clipping from TM-10-1287 (October 18, 1941). Indian Motorcycle Model 741-B

[Wayne Hingley]

From manual...

[barriefield-brian]

You were typing the same time as me. I had heard these called bill hooks but had no further info. I bought mine in the 60's in the army surplus and have not seen any since. Wish I hadn't lost the handle. Thanks for the info. Cheers Brian

[rob love]

Originally Posted by Wayne Hingley

Try this for the Indian wrench Rob... http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Indi...wAAOSwHMJYHjB5

Below is a clipping from TM-10-1287 (October 18, 1941). Indian Motorcycle Model 741-B

Thanks Wayne....exactly what I was looking for. Had a look on ebay, and the prices seem to vary. Kind of neat to have them NOS in the box....my only fear is if I keep them I will end up with an Indian motorcycle.

I'll drag in a couple more trinkets from the last trip to Westbourne.

[Michael R.]

Originally Posted by rob love

Thanks Wayne...my only fear is if I keep them I will end up with an Indian motorcycle.

Shame! It all started with a wrench ...

[rob love]

It has started enough times by just having the manual. I can't explain why.....it just does.

[rob love]

Found the bill-hook (or as the army calls it, the hook, bill) in the 25 pdr manual. Sure enough, it goes in the ammunition limbers.

[David Dunlop]

I remember Jim showing me those machetes years ago. They would not fit in the standard CMP Machete sheaths he had and he could never figure out what they were for. Came as part of a huge lot of tools he had purchased, many of which had been deliberately rendered unserviceable before they were surplussed out, which p***d him right off!


David

[chris vickery]

Well, since you found it in the manual, and the manual does stipulate storage of same in the limber....
my guess is a limber is on the wish list to go with the 25 pounders?

[rob love]

Chris

I think that goes without saying.

[chris vickery]

Did the addiction start with anything less than a manual? A wheel nut perhaps? Maybe an intervention is required.

[rob love]

Originally Posted by chris vickery

Maybe an intervention is required.

No way....you guys would just trick me out of my stuff.

[Wayne Hingley]

Rob, I have a little bit more "stuff" for you on my trailer tonight. I have to make a second trip though. It got dark and the transfer was a little bit tricky for the last piece. Should have it all tomorrow.

[rob love]

Right on, more stuff. Still more room in the sheds, and I'll buy more sheds if need be. Actually, still have two rather large sheds to put up yet.

Thanks Wayne.

[tankbarrell]

Originally Posted by chris vickery

Did the addiction start with anything less than a manual? A wheel nut perhaps? Maybe an intervention is required.

My Sherman project started with a carb flange gasket set...... Manuals usually predate the vehicle itself, much like Rob.

[David Dunlop]

I have to ask this.

Was there a long standing tradition of this bit of kit being issued to the Royal Artillery, and was it's sole purpose to aid the gun crew in brush clearing, or were there other unique artillery purposes for which this item served?

I ask because a different, more traditional machete was standard issue with every CMP Tool Kit during World War Two, and it came with a protective sheath. It seems odd that two different designs would continue to be produced when the economies of war would suggest consolidation to one standard design, if they were both serving exactly the same purposes.

That's why I ask if perhaps it was purely a tradition the Bill Hook Machete was kept in production? Tea cups rattled in Artillery Officer's Messes around the world at the very thought of giving it up???

David

[rob love]

This one was marked to the Lake Superior regiment, who I do not believe were involved in artillery.