MTB Base in Montreal???...

[Dan Martel]

Originally Posted by Robert Bergeron

Anybody know when Camp Bouchard closed for good?

According to "History of CFB Montreal and its Garrisons" (1980) by Jacques Castonguay; "Camp Bouchard (in Blaineville) ceased to exist as a unit in June, 1972." Castonguay doesn't provide any other information on what happened at the Bouchard site after 1972.

I also found the following quote online from "Abandoned Military Installions of Canada Vol II: Quebec" by Paul Ozorak; "...unification also lead to a reduction and consolitation of bases in Canada. As a result, operations at Bouchard were terminated in 1969, and the depot itself closed in 1972. All the military and ammunition production buildings were demolished and today, only the PMQs and some bunkers remain. A motor vehicle test centre for Transport Canada now occupies the eastern section of the former camp. After World War II, the depot was also used as a training area for local Militia units. Most of the property was sold off between 1972 and 1988."

It looks like 1972 is the year that the Camp ceased to function as a military site.

On another subject about the military in Montreal (and while I have your attention) can you advise where in Longueuil would one have found Jacques Cartier Barracks? I'm sure all trace of it has long since disappeared, but would you know the nearest intersection or some other way of locating the site? It was the initial location of the Headquarters for Mobile Command. It's one of the few places used by the post-war Army of which I have no idea.

Cheers,
Dan.

[Wayne McGee]

Ch de la Savane and Rue Bishop. Pretty much on the site of the new Longueuil City Hall. Maple_Leaf_eh may be a better source of info.

Cheers

Wayne

[Dianaa]

Originally Posted by David Dunlop

OK Marc. Please give us some more details. Why was there an MTB Base in Montreal? I find this interesting because many years ago, Peter Ford told me that while he was based with the CBC in Montreal, one of his co-workers had purchased a surplus Fairmiles in Montreal and was living on it. I thought that was an odd place to surplus one of those boats, but now perhaps it makes more sense.

David

I've come onto this thread late and don't know the precursor to the "please give us more" comment. However wasn't there a period where the U Boats were working inside the St Lawrence possibly as far as Quebec City.

Would this be a reason to have an MTB base in Montreal? or would the transit times to the gulf take too long?

Diana

Battle of the St Lawrence http://www.uboat.net/articles/29.html

[Robert Bergeron]

Thanks for the info Dan ,

The Military District 1 HQ was indeed for a while at the corner of La Savanne and Bishop. I remember well being there for my officer candidate entry tests in the early 80's . The Mobile Command HQ was at that time in St-Hubert at the airfield. Mobile . I do not know where Mobile Command was prior to being in St-Hubert.

In Longueuil / St-Hubert , i know of no other military installation than the one at the airfield and Ile Sainte-Hélène barracks. Did you know that the Ile Sainte Hélène barracks had many uses in the past 300 years including a military prison ? Camilien Houde , mayor of Montéeal was detained there in an ugly passage of Québec history. Houde was an anti-war acticvist and opposed conscription in 42-43.He was arrested by the RCMP et detained for the remainder of the war. Fort Sainte-Hélène barracks was also a defensive Fort for the defense of Montréal thru the different wars ( 1760 against the British ,1812 against the Americans, Fenien raids ( irish rebels ) , WW1, WW2 ) . Curious t know about more military installations in Longueuil ?

Bob

[Robert Bergeron]

Diaana dear,

I think the MTB base was for construction , fitting and refitting the Fairmile boats . They were built in Montréal so were the torpedoes. There are no reports to my knowledge of U Boats ever sailing up the St-Lawrence past Québec. The farthest the could make it submerged would be Trois Rivières but i see no point in doing that . They would of been very vulnerable because of the narrowness and the shallowness of the river. They were regular visitors of the Gulf and sank quite a few merchant ships there.A torpedoe even beached near Rimouski after it failed to reach its mark. It is showcased ar the musem in Point au Père were the Canadian Navy submarine is .

Interesting part of WW2 history .

Cheers !

Bob

[maple_leaf_eh]

Originally Posted by Wayne McGee

Ch de la Savane and Rue Bishop. Pretty much on the site of the new Longueuil City Hall. Maple_Leaf_eh may be a better source of info.

Cheers

Wayne

Sorry Wayne, the other guys beat me to it.

[Robert Bergeron]

Chemin de la Savanne and Bishop intersection is in Montréal proper not Longueuil.

[Wayne McGee]

Street names were taken right off Google Earth. Immediately adjacent to the runways of St Hubert, not Montreal. The location of the new City Hall for Longueuil is in fact in St Hubert (unless borders were changed), and I'm pretty sure it is sitting on the site of the FMC HQ bldg circa 1990

Cheers

Wayne

[Robert Bergeron]

You are absolutely right Wayne.

What was the name of the street in Montréal where 1 Mil District HQ was located ? A great mansion -like brick building ?

Someone remember ?

Bob

[Marc Montgomery]

To my knowledge the 112 ft Fairmiles were not built in Montreal. The Canadian Power Boat Company, built the Scott-Paine 70ft MTBs and RL (rescue launch)

in the pictures you can see them. in the one picture taken from behind you can just see the small iron drawbridge for the road beside the Lachine Canal The canal is right on the other side of the bridge. Boats leaving the basin would have had to make a fairly sharp turn into the canal.. location is actually not far from the current Atwater Market

go to google earth, and type in 4000 St Patrick then take the little man and put it on the red dot to get street view,. its actually a bit east of the red dot.
its a rather run down looking white building ..the gate has the number 4000 on it..this would have been the little channel from the boat basin leading out into the canal.. I suspect the original road would be where the bike path is today.

the other photo is from Camp Bouchard I took about ten years ago. these were the concrete remains of small filling rooms. if you look you can see the two side walls..the fourth back wall would have been the wooden exterior wall of the building covering the various filling chambers..the idea being that with the three concrete walls, the front inside the building and the two side walls, if there was an explosion it would go up through the roof and out through the back and not take out the adjoining chambers or the rest of the operation inside the building,

The various buildings were spread far apart from each other. the operation was huge and covered a couple of sq km or more.. At the time when wandering through the brush, you might come across a fire hydrant.

[maple_leaf_eh]

Originally Posted by Robert Bergeron

You are absolutely right Wayne.

What was the name of the street in Montréal where 1 Mil District HQ was located ? A great mansion -like brick building ?

Someone remember ?

Bob

How about Atwater?

[Robert Bergeron]

Terry you are right: Atwater !

Wonder whatever happened to that building ?

Thanks, you saved the day.

robert

[Robert Bergeron]

Great pictures Marc !

Thanks.

robert

[Dan Martel]

Again, referring to notes I took from "History of CFB Montreal and its Garrisons" by Castonguay. It was published in 1980. Anything further to that date, you guys will have to provide.


On 1 Mar 1942 the Sulpician property at 3530 Atwater Avenue was rented by DND for use by the Canadian Army as the Military District 4 CWAC Barracks. It was commanded by Brigadier E de B Panet and became known as St Sulpice Barracks. DND purchased the site from the Sulpicians on 10 May 1946. In 1946 the HQ of MD 4 moved from the Sun Life Building to Atwater Avenue and became HQ Quebec Command. Quebec Command was commanded by the following General Officers Commanding;

1946 - 1948 Major General EJ Renaud
1948 - 1951 Major General ROG Morton
1951 - 1957 Major General PE Bernatchez
1957 - 1961 Major General JM Rockingham
1961 - 1965 Major General JF Fleury
1965 - 1966 Brigadier M Lahaie (acting GOC)

CFB Montreal was formed on 1 Apr 1966. Its HQ was located at the Atwater Garrison (all of the locations within the purview of CFB Montreal were now designated as garrisons, eg Longue-Pointe Garrison).

On the same date HQ Quebec Command (an Army formation) was disbanded and its duties taken over by HQ Eastern Area (a new Canadian Forces formation). From 1966 to 1970 three Brigadier / Brigadier Generals commanded Eastern Area; Brigadier LF Trudeau, Brigadier General RA Reid and Brigadier General JAG Sevigny.

HQ Eastern Area became QG Secteur de l’Est (Milice) or HQ Eastern Militia Area in 1970.

CFB Montreal HQ moved from the Atwater Garrison to St Hubert Garrison on 15 Aug 1974.

The renamed Atwater Armoury became a part of the Longue-Pointe Garrison. Located at Atwater Armoury (Note: as of 1980) are the Headquarters for No 1 (Montreal) Militia District, No 2 (Montreal) Militia District, and the Quartier-général, Secteur de l’Est Milice (Headquarters, Eastern Militia Area).

The Atwater building was redesignated as Pierre le Moyne d’Iberville Armoury.


As I said, you guys will have to fill in the rest.

Cheers,
Dan.

[Robert Bergeron]

Dan,

You are a wealth of information. First time i was in that building was for my officer candidate selection exam , circa 1978/79 not 1987/89 as i stated before.

I have no idea when it closed.

What about Ile Sainte-Hélène Garrison in Montréal ? Any info on that ? When did it cease to be a military installation ?


Any idea when Farnham Garrison started as a training base for the Militia ?

Saint-Bruno rifle ranges ?

Thanks for your well documenred research Dan.

Cheers !

Robert

[John McGillivray]

Originally Posted by Robert Bergeron

Any idea when Farnham Garrison started as a training base for the Militia ?

Farnham was a PW camp for German troops during WWII.

[Dan Martel]

Originally Posted by Robert Bergeron

What about Ile Sainte-Hélène Garrison in Montréal ? Any info on that ? When did it cease to be a military installation ?

I don't recall if there was any mention of the Ile Sainte-Hélène Garrison in the book. If there was, I didn't make any notes about it.

Originally Posted by Robert Bergeron

Saint-Bruno rifle ranges ?

Same answer, but both Ile Sainte-Hélène and Saint-Bruno could have been mentioned under different names, if they were a part of a larger grouping. Two of the Montreal garrisons of which I have absolutely no knowledge are Chabanel and La Salle. I don't even know what the locations of these two were.

Originally Posted by Robert Bergeron

Any idea when Farnham Garrison started as a training base for the Militia ?

Camp Farnham and Infantry Training Centre A-12

On 4 Aug 1940 the decision was made to establish a second military camp in MD 4 to be located at the militia training area near Farnham. Colonel AT Howard was appointed its first CO on 13 Aug 1940 and the site, comprising 6,000 acres, was refurbished during August and September. NPAM training began on 9 Oct 1940, with recruits from Les Fusiliers de Sherbrooke, Le Regiment de St Hyacinthe and Le Regiment de Joliette attending. After the 1941 reorganization of the Canadian Army training system*, five basic training camps sent their graduates to the Infantry Training Centre at Farnham; St Jean, Sherbrooke, Joliette, Sorel and St Jerome. Howard was succeeded by Colonel Wright in 1943, who commanded until 1946. The camp was reduced to nil strength on 14 Jul 1946, and active operations ended on 1 October.

A Reserve Force School opened at Farnham in (September or October) 1946, administered by the R22eR. Army Cadet summer camps begin in July, 1947. Also in 1947 a second Reserve Force School (an Armoured Brigade Camp) opens. The size of post-war Camp Farnham, which included the former internment camp site, is now 17 square miles (10,880 acres). Governor General Vanier presented new Colours to the 4e and 6e Bns, R22eR, in late July, 1966. The Cadet camp moved to CFB Valcartier for the 1968 summer training period. Many of the original Farnham buildings have been demolished. The camp is still used (as of 1980) for militia training and by the CF Recruit School located at CFB St Jean.

* Redesignated A12 Canadian Infantry Training Centre on 15 Feb 1941.

As the book notes, the NPAM training centre was established on a site already used for militia training. I don't recall if it was mentioned when DND originally purchased the land, but it was expanded in 1940. I recall the book also mentioned some details about the internment camp, but I didn't record any.

Cheers,
Dan.

[Robert Bergeron]

Great info Dan.

Thanks.

Bob