Conspiracy theories- HMAS Sydney

[Tony Smith]

It isn't April Fool's Day, so it must be National Conspiracy Theory Propagation Day in Australia.
Hot items in today's news are one on an anaylsis done on the 1930's racehorse Phar Lap has concluded that the horse was poisoned by Arsenic (not particularly relevant to this forum, so I'll drop it), and the relevation that an Autopsy on the suspected remains of the only crewmember of the HMAS Sydney to have been found - revealed a bullet in his skull!

HMAS Sydney was returning from escorting the convoy carrying the AIF 8th Division to Singapore in November 1941 when it disappeared without a trace off the Western Australian coast, taking the lives of all 645 crew. HMAS Sydney was a first-line Cruiser, with the Captain and crew having battle experience in the mediterranean, when it encountered the disguised German raider Cormoran. The Captain of the Kormoran (who survived) claimed to have lured the Sydney into close range to inspect the Kormoran, before the Kormoran revealed it's guns and opened fire on the Sydney. A bitter close range gun battle ensued, with the Sydney finally ceasing fire and sailing off over the horizon on fire from bow to stern. The Kormoran was badly damaged, but many of the German crew survived the encounter and abandoned the ship to be picked up and captured a few days later. After an exhaustive search, the only clues to the fate of the Sydney were a bullet-ridden carley float and 3 months later, the decomposed remains of an Australian sailor near Christmas Island. Australian authorities found it hard to believe that a battle hardened ship could be lured into close proximity of a suspicious ship without being in a ready state, and suspicions were raised concerning the involvement of a Japanese Submarine in the sinking, or even that the Germans had been acting as a mother ship and resupplying subs. The German Captain Detmers and his officers and crew all gave testimony that no such Japanese vessel was involved, but doubts and rumours were fed by Japanese supplies being found amongst the flotsam of the Kormoran and even in the emergency supplies carried by the German lifeboats. The explanation for these was that the Kormoran and it's sister ship had just sailed from a still-neutral Japan and had re-supplied there.

Now, in 2006, an autopsy and DNA examination of the sailor buried on Christmas Island are seeking to establish his identity by DNA matching with surviving relatives of the Sydney crew, as these families have spent 65 years not knowing the true resting place of their loved ones. The amazing discovery of a bullet has sensationalised the inquest by the remarkable fact that: "The bullet is smaller than the standard German 9mm pistol bullet and is possibly from a 8mm Japanese Nambu". Now my scepticism would step here and say that the German 7.65mm pistol round was just as common as the 9mm, and how examinable would a bullet be that had spent several weeks at sea in a decomposing body then 65 years in a grave on a wet, tropical, salt-laden island?

[Howard]

Tony,
You seem sceptical about the possibility of Japanese involvement. I do not usually subscribe to conspiracy theories, except for two.
First conspiracy theory I like is that the Moon landing was faked. Because we all know that the moon is simply a hologram projected by the Masons.
Second conspiracy theory I like is the HMAS Sydney sinking. I have very little doubt in my mind that the Japanese were involved in the sinking of Sydney and the truth was hidden from the public, and indeed the Australian Government, simply because the British war machine did not want to alert the U.S to Japanese movements in the pacific before Pearl Harbour.
Recommended Reading: “Somewhere Below” by John Samuels. Get it & read it, and we'll discuss it at the "Get-together"...
“Secrecy on the part of the Royal Australian Navy, and suspicions of scandal and cover up, make Sydney's story as important in Australia currently and politically as it is historically to Britain, America, Germany and Japan.”
– Extract from Somewhere Below

[Jon Skagfeld]

Howard:

Re: Lunar landing faked, hologram projected by Masons.

Touche...now when are the K of C going to visit Mars?

Oooops, better get out of here...subject references could wind up being volatile.

[Neil Ashley]

I assume the wreck of the vessel is yet to be discovered for examination?

Presumably we are talking about a very large area to search.

[Tony Smith]

HMAS Sydney has not been found. The crew of the Kormoran were able to give the location of the engagement and the last course of the Sydney. Witnesses saw the bridge completely obliterated, and all return gunfire gradually diminished to nothing. The ship was burning fiercly from bow to stern when the Sydney sailed off on a fixed bearing, so it is supposed to have had no crew in a condition to command the ship. Of course, it is not known how long the ship was able to continue on it's course, or the time or location of it's sinking. An extensive search of the area off the WA coast failed to find any clue to it's fate. The area has even been scoured by Dr Ballard of Titanic fame, but with such vague loctions, it's nearly an impossible task.

I do have doubts about the Jap Sub theory. All of the Germans were interviewed thoroughly, and although they may have had some time on liferafts to "Get their story straight", many were captured in different boats and far removed from each other. Many gave slightly varying stories depending on their view from, or particular duty on the Kormoran, but all were consistant in the general gist of the Kormoran luring the Sydney in close and completely surprising her.

Although most Japanese Submarine crews did not survive the war, there are no Japanese naval records showing submarine operations in the Indian Ocean in Nov '41 (most were heading to Pearl Harbour), and no German or Japanese records of any Mothership/Sub co-operation between the axis navies. There is simply no military, naval or diplomatic archival material from the axis side to suggest that any Jap sub was in the area. While it may be in the Japanese interest to deny the actual sinking, the fact is there wasn't a single Jap sub in the whole Indian Ocean at the time.

This myth has grown on the basis of "We wuz robbed", the belief that the tricky Japs MUST have been involved to have outwitted such a fine ship as the Sydney. Although the Sydney is presumed to have sunk on 19 Nov, Aust authorities were not aware of the reason the Sydney was overdue until the first German survivors were picked up on 22 Nov. Full public censorship of news of the possible sinking was put in place until 1 Dec when the first sketchy news releases were allowed, with the final declaration that the Sydney was presumed sunk with all hands being made on 4 Dec. Of course, when news of the Japanese attacks on Pearl Harbour, Hong Kong and Malaya were announced on 8 Dec, the public thought "A-HA! That's what must have happened to the Sydney!". The National Archives site has a good summary of the incident, by reading the chapters in the left column.

[Tony Smith]

Latest news from the morgue:
The fragment found in the Sailor's skull has now been proven to be a ferrous fragment, either a sliver of the ship's superstructure, or a fragment of a high explosive shell. The sailor WAS NOT shot by a pistol.
Japanese consular officials are relieved at the news.

[Howard]

'Lithgow' Tony,
'Ganmain' Tony & I have an interest in this.
Where are you sourcing the information?
HH

[Tony Smith]

It was on ABC news online and was also widely reported in the papers.

[Snowtractor]

I have read that a couple of th German raiders had Cruiser sized guns, although in single mounts. If the Aussie cruiser were caught completely unware I could see it, though with the extra armour and more guns , let alone trained crew ( as were the Germans)
I would think the cruiser would prevail on any prolonged battle.
I do not know what its layout was but it you could take out the bridge or fire control quickly odds would favour the krauts then I should think.
But loss of all hands? Makes me speculate a fire in a magazine or a torpedo finished her off.
Seems like a damn fine mystery for the Seahunters show.
Sean

[Mike Kelly]

The general consensus says that the Sydney was lost because :

The captain lacked experience and made a fatal error of judgement . Sydney was doomed when he manouvered in too close , he knew full well that German raiders were roaming the Indian and Pacific oceans sinking merchant ships at will . The engagement took place at very close range and the Kormoran was very well armed with heavy caliber guns and torpedoes.

The full story of the German raiders in the Pacific is fascinating and little known about .

http://www.nzetc.org/tm/scholarly/te...H2-1Epi-j.html

Mike