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  #61  
Old 18-07-16, 12:23
Big D Big D is offline
Darryl
 
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Default M8 restoration

Hi Tim

No, I haven't tried anything as yet. I did read on another thread somewhere (can't recall where) where molasses was a good option for gears like these. I have been using molasses up until a few months ago on other things with pretty good results, I must say.

What do you think? Is that a better (it is certainly gentler) way to go?
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  #62  
Old 18-07-16, 12:52
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Lynn Eades Lynn Eades is offline
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Darryl, if you are going to blast them, leave the cups in, until you have them back.
Measure the old gasket thickness. It is likely the correct thickness to go back.
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  #63  
Old 19-07-16, 03:53
lynx42 lynx42 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big D View Post
Hi Tim

No, I haven't tried anything as yet. I did read on another thread somewhere (can't recall where) where molasses was a good option for gears like these. I have been using molasses up until a few months ago on other things with pretty good results, I must say.

What do you think? Is that a better (it is certainly gentler) way to go?
Darryl, when you are using molasses you have probably found that it won't work on anything that has had oil or grease on it. Even using degreaser before hand does not work. The enzymes in the mix won't touch anything slightly oily. Media blasting is the way to go with the housings as you can get the blast up inside the tube as well as that is probably pretty gunked up too.

Regards Rick.
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  #64  
Old 19-07-16, 10:52
Big D Big D is offline
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Hi Lynn and Rick,

Thanks for the replies.

Lynn - yes, that is a good idea on the cones. I made an attempt to get one out by welding a bead around it but it proved stubborn anyway, so will wait until after the blasting before I have another go. I have kept what was left of the gaskets and will make sure I use the same thickness.

Rick - yes, I found exactly the same thing with molasses. As you say, despite a bit of cleaning, there is certainly some junk left in the housings, so I think the media blasting will be the way to go.


There are a couple of broken brake line cover bolts in the top of the axle housing which Iíll remove and then tidy up the holes. Iíll also need to free up the drain/filler plugs, as these are all frozen in place. Once I have them sorted, Iíll drop the axle housings and diff assembly off to the blasters.
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  #65  
Old 24-07-16, 04:36
Big D Big D is offline
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Default M8 restoration

Hi all,

As you can see by the photographs, I am having to get a bit creative to try to remove the damn yoke off the pinion shaft in the axle housing. This is my latest attempt!

I set up my 12 ton press and engine crane around the axle housing to see if I could get it to move. The yoke is sitting in the press with the ram of the press on the pinion shaft, with a ball bearing in the hole in the end of the pinion shaft separating the pinion shaft and ram.

There is sufficient slack in the chain around the axle housing so that the axle housing is effectively hanging off the yoke on the press. The chain will Ďcatchí the axle when the yoke releases.

So, the weight of the axle housing and the press are working together against the stuck pinion shaft. I have hand cranked the jack up as far as I am game to.

I have tried heating the yoke casting with a propane burner several times. It is certainly looking cooked and Iím a little reluctant to heat it too long/often but if you think that it can stand a fair bit of heat, I will persevere.

Iíve been fairly liberal with the penetrating oil since I started working on this axle some weeks ago but if it is getting down the pinion shaft, it is certainly not obvious to me at the moment.

Does anyone have any other ideas on how I might encourage this stubborn yoke to come off?

How easy would it be to get another yoke or similar yoke to replace this one if worst comes to worst? I don't want to cut the damn thing off but I am running out of ideas (and patience!).
Attached Thumbnails
P1070069.JPG   P1070070.JPG  
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  #66  
Old 24-07-16, 04:52
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Darryl, Drop the pinion and bearing carrier from the housing. Borrow a bearing separator to better support the flange and go to a bigger press.
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Last edited by Lynn Eades; 24-07-16 at 06:52.
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  #67  
Old 24-07-16, 06:02
Big D Big D is offline
Darryl
 
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Hi Lynn

Thanks for the reply. If you mean pulling the whole pinion assembly from the housing, yoke and all, then I have tried that as well. I would have thought that I could 'tap' it out from inside the axle housing but I got no movement on the pinion assembly that way either. I guess I am dealing with two bearing assemblies that are themselves very tight in the housing.

Any bright ideas for doing this?
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  #68  
Old 24-07-16, 07:56
T Creighton T Creighton is offline
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Default Diff companion flange

Hi Darryl,
Impressive project you have there.
Are those diffs the same or similar to the truck ones?
If they are I have a spare flange you can have if you have to cut yours although they shouldn't be that hard to get off.
My book says just tap the flange off with a soft hammer and then use a puller to extract the pinion oil seal retainer housing complete with pinion shaft and bearings.
Regards, Terry
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  #69  
Old 24-07-16, 08:54
Big D Big D is offline
Darryl
 
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Hi Terry

Thanks for the reply and the offer. Yes, more than enough work in this project to keep me busy!

The axles should be the same as Ford truck diffs. I've attached a few pictures from the manual.

I'm thinking that a new approach as per Lynn's suggestion might be in order, but I'm not sure how to best tackle it. Considering I can't take the yoke off first, what is the best way of trying to get access to the sleeve and the bearing cups? With the yoke still attached, there is only about 5mm clearance between the oil seal retainer and the pinion gear sleeve.

Could I somehow ease that pinion sleeve out of the housing?
Attached Thumbnails
Rear axle housing.jpg   Rear axle assembly.jpg   Universal yoke removal.jpg  
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  #70  
Old 24-07-16, 10:15
T Creighton T Creighton is offline
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Default Pinion shaft yolk

Hi Darryl,
It is different to the truck ones in that the yoke and shaft are tapered and keyed, not splined. My flange would not definitely not suit.
The taper should be easier to move than rusted-in splines although the key and keyway are probably the problem.
Can you get a drift along the key way to give the key a whack.
Do you have a Picavant hydraulic puller? That and more heat than a propane torch.
Cheers, Terry
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  #71  
Old 24-07-16, 10:32
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Lynn Eades Lynn Eades is offline
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Darryl the pinion sleeve is a snug fit in the housing and they usually require the housing to be heated to put the sleeve in. It may take a bit to get it out, but if you take the sleeve out of the housing, it will be easier to deal with. You diff is a Timken (or Ford) style, so there may be a bit of useful info in Ford manuals of the era.
Do you have all the service info for the M8 axles, preload etc?
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  #72  
Old 25-07-16, 00:15
Big D Big D is offline
Darryl
 
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Hi Terry and Lynn,

Thanks for the replies.

Terry - there is not a lot of room to get to the key, so that may not be an option. I have various pullers here but not the model you mentioned. As you say, there is no comparison between oxy and propane.

Lynn - yes, I have all the manuals and information to set it all up again. The heating required may be a problem with what I have here.

I spoke to my local mechanic this morning and he will take a look at the problem. I figure he will have the tools to both heat things up and remove them, much better than I can within a reasonable time frame. It may be a few dollars well spent I feel.

Will keep you posted.
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  #73  
Old 25-07-16, 09:42
John 4172 John 4172 is offline
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Default Tapedred pinion yoke removar.

Darryl over the years i have had to remove many pinion yokes. as yet i have not had to go past the tool attatched to the yoke with 2 bolts.
if you have to resort to heat you have to use a lot of heat and get the yoke hot quickly before the heat conducts to the pinion. a hit with a heavy hammer on the puller bolt IF IT IS YOURS may help.
best of luck with the great project.
I WOULD REMOVE THE BALL BEARING AS IT MAY SHATTER AND FLY.
John.
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  #74  
Old 26-07-16, 12:11
Big D Big D is offline
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Hi John,

How's it going? Thanks for the reply. Yes, the manual says the puller is the way to remove it so it has got me a bit beat.

I took the axle housing to my mechanic today. He took one look at it and said that he didn't think that a puller would do it with it having a tapered shaft and a rusted keyway. He also said that he didn't think a press would have done it either (as I had set it up).

He thought lots of heat fast onto the yoke and then smacking the yoke with a big hammer would be the way to do it. He isn't sure about the pinion shaft until he has a look but he thought that it is likely to be very tight around the spigot where it fits into the axle housing. We'll see how good he is.....

Interestingly, I started work on the rear axle late today. This axle looks a lot better and the differential turns freely and the threaded torque rods undid fairly easily. This axle had a leaking seal on the pinion shaft and with all the oil and grease all over the yoke and into the keyway, I thought it looked promising for removal. One short blow with a cold chisel on the nut securing the yoke undid the nut, so it was looking good at that stage.

I then put my 6" puller on the yoke and worked it up. As I'd done with the other yoke, I gave the puller a smack with a hammer but all I was able to achieve this time was a broken puller! Ha!

I'll have a look at other options and in the meantime, see what the mechanic comes back with.
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  #75  
Old 02-08-16, 07:50
Big D Big D is offline
Darryl
 
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Hi all,

I have now stripped the second axle. The differential looks in much better shape in this one. I believe that after a good clean up, the bearings on this one will be fine. I'll get it blasted as well and fit new axle seals and a pinion shaft seal.

Work has just resumed again on the hull. The ring gear is complete and bolted inside the hull, and some of the plating is being fitted now. The ability to do full repairs to both sides of the hull lower channels is now apparent.
Attached Thumbnails
P1070081.JPG   P1070082.JPG   P1070089.JPG   P1070093.JPG   P1070095.JPG  

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1943 Willys MB
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  #76  
Old 02-08-16, 07:51
Big D Big D is offline
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More hull photos...
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P1070096.JPG   P1070097.JPG   P1070098.JPG   P1070100.JPG   P1070102.JPG  

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  #77  
Old 02-08-16, 07:52
Big D Big D is offline
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The last couple...
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P1070104.JPG   P1070113.JPG   P1070114.JPG   P1070115.JPG  
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  #78  
Old 02-08-16, 09:41
Petr Brezina Petr Brezina is offline
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Nice job!
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  #79  
Old 02-08-16, 16:25
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Darryl, The pinion installation appears to be the same as on the Studebaker US6. I have some spare yokes should you need one.
As regards removal, I would definitely recommend applying a puller to the yoke then supporting one side of the parallel section of the yoke with a steel block whilst striking the opposite side with a heavy hammer. So as not to bruise the yoke place a flat steel bar against the side you are striking. Support it well and strike it hard. If at first nothing happens rotate the yoke 90 degrees and try again. I've never known this method to fail to release a tapered fitting.

Dave
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  #80  
Old 06-08-16, 11:47
lynx42 lynx42 is offline
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Hi Darryl,
Anything here of interest for you?

https://www.troostwijkauctions.com/u...23047-3814012/

Regards Rick.
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  #81  
Old 07-08-16, 10:51
Big D Big D is offline
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Hi Petr,

Thanks for the kudos!


Hi Dave,

Thanks for the advice. I did try striking the yoke from behind while I had the puller on it. Admittedly, I did not have a steel block supporting the other side so I will give that another go.


Hi Rick,

Thanks, yes, I have been in touch with the person who has these items for sale at BAIV. I'm just awaiting details of exactly what is included but it does look interesting. I have a container coming from Belgium next month so the timing may be spot on...
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  #82  
Old 11-08-16, 07:50
Big D Big D is offline
Darryl
 
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Hi all,

A few more pictures of further progress on the hull today. We are getting there. The panel joints on the sponsons will just need a bit of fibreglass to really smooth them out.

Once all the plates are in place, the original welding beads will be replicated to give it the proper finish.

A question - the steel channel that was welded into place at the top of the sponsons and runs the length of the upper part of the sponson (you can see the outline where it was cut away); does this serve any other purpose apart from structural support? I wondered if cabling went through this channel but the welder who cut it out said there were no holes in either end.

Can anyone confirm please?
Attached Thumbnails
P1070202.JPG   P1070203.JPG   P1070204.JPG   P1070205.JPG   P1070206.JPG  

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  #83  
Old 11-08-16, 07:51
Big D Big D is offline
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More pictures.
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P1070207.JPG   P1070208.JPG   P1070210.JPG  
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  #84  
Old 16-08-16, 10:14
Big D Big D is offline
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Hi all,

This is starting to look like an M8 now. With the exception of some tidying up here and there, the hull repair is basically done. It came out really well and I'm glad we chose to do it this way.

Most of the welding work was done using a stick welder. The main exterior welds on the sponsons look very similar to the original welds and will just need a dab on the odd spot to really finish them off.
Attached Thumbnails
IMG_0036.JPG   IMG_0040.jpg   IMG_0043.jpg   IMG_0044.jpg   IMG_0045.JPG  

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  #85  
Old 16-08-16, 10:15
Big D Big D is offline
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Next up is some work on the hatches. I have the top hatches and the other front hatch but we'll need to tidy up the hinges on those, as well as the hull where the original hatches have been cut off, hinges and all.
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IMG_0046.JPG   IMG_0048.JPG   IMG_0049.JPG   IMG_0050.JPG   IMG_0051.JPG  

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  #86  
Old 16-08-16, 10:16
Big D Big D is offline
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Out of interest, we weighed the hull and it came in at 1.95 ton in its present from.
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IMG_0053.JPG   IMG_0054.JPG   IMG_0063.jpg   IMG_0064.jpg   IMG_0066.JPG  

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  #87  
Old 16-08-16, 10:17
Big D Big D is offline
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Last of the photos.
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IMG_0071.jpg   IMG_0072.JPG   IMG_0076.JPG   IMG_0077.JPG   IMG_0078.JPG  

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  #88  
Old 23-08-16, 11:19
Big D Big D is offline
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Hi all,

I was looking to get some opinions on how best to sandblast the M8 hull.

I figure there would be some advantages in having a nice clean, blasted and primed hull for when I move onto fabricating the floor for it; thus my desire to get this next step sorted in my mind before I proceed any further.

My original plan was to get the hull welded, and then fit the axles and springs once they were restored and etch primed. This would could get the M8 mobile and make it a bit easier to get the hull to and from the sandblasters.

Itís been suggested to me though that even if I get the blasters to cover the wheels and axles, I run the risk of getting the grit into all the wrong places - especially those nice restored diffs and hubs!

Iíve talked to the sandblasters and they say they can wrap the wheels and axles with plastic to avoid the grit getting into them. They would just need to be a little careful when it came to the blasting around the painted springs and the axles themselves.

I know the preferred course would be to blast just the hull minus the axles but the sandblasters say they would have difficulty moving a 2 ton hull around the yard. Iíd also have the hassles and extra expense in getting it to the yard. That is, Iíd need a truck with a crane to lift it on and off at each end, and then Iíd somehow have to use that crane to put it in a place in the yard where the blasters could do the job.

I figured that with the hull being on the axles, it would give me the ability to roll it on and off the truck, which to me would be a darned sight easier.

I know the blasting is likely to hit some of the areas that are already primed, but they can easily go over those areas with etch primer while they are spraying the rest of the hull. Getting into and around the hull without a floor should give them plenty of access.

Does anyone have any thoughts or experience on this? Am I going to lose much by going the way I have in mind? Am I wasting my time fitting those nice restored springs, axles and hubs with all that grit flying around?
Attached Thumbnails
Gun control cables.jpg   IMG_0086.JPG   Torque rod parts.jpg   Torque rods.jpg   Steering knuckle parts.jpg  

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  #89  
Old 23-08-16, 11:20
Big D Big D is offline
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A few more photos.
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P1070212.JPG   P1070216.JPG   P1070217.JPG  
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  #90  
Old 23-08-16, 12:37
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Lynn Eades Lynn Eades is offline
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Darryl, don't do it! Find a dolly (Some kind of high load yard trailer) to put the hull on. You might be quite surprised where that sand can get into.
What about a hiab? (I know, more cost)
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