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  #391  
Old 22-05-20, 10:11
Big D Big D is offline
Darryl
 
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Default M8 restoration

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Clutch 1.JPG   Clutch 2.JPG   20200505_085102.jpg   20200505_085716.jpg   20200514_154835.jpg  

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1943 Willys MB
1941 Willys MBT Trailer
1941 Australian LP2A Machine Gun Carrier
1943 White M3A1AOP Scout Car
1944 Ford M8 Armoured Car
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  #392  
Old 22-05-20, 19:18
MikeV MikeV is offline
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Default brakes Installation

Nice looking Brakes

I have a question I am the other crew member helping Brian B. on the ONTAR museum M8 repair, have you honed or re-sleeved your brake Cylinders?

We have just reinstalled some new used cylinders which we honed and they are leaking. So we thought the only way to fix them now is to put a sleeve into them since they are pitting from the brake fluid, bare in mind our M8 sits around a lot on display and only gets run on a very few occasions.
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  #393  
Old 22-05-20, 23:48
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Lynn Eades Lynn Eades is offline
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Darryl, I have had re sleeved wheel cylinders leak from behind the sleeve- at the testing station, on the brake rollers. Customers vehicle. The finish in resleeved bores is usually very good compared to the cast iron and seldom gives trouble. Pictures of the tapered bleeder would help with understanding.

MikeV, this might be a case for stainless sleeves and synthetic brake fluid as ordinary (dot3, dot4) fluid is "hydroscopic" (attracts water) and will in a relatively short time cause trouble. A sealed system would help. That is a master cylinder with a diaphragm in the lid as opposed to a cap with a vent hole in it. (I realise this is not optional) It would be far better for all of your M8 to get a run each month. (brakes, seals, trans, engine etc)
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  #394  
Old 23-05-20, 00:05
Big D Big D is offline
Darryl
 
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Default M8 restoration

Hi Mike,

These cylinders are all stainless steel sleeved. The fact that the vehicle wouldn't get a lot of use was the reason I went that way.

Hi Lynn,

That's a good point about the bleeders. I replaced the original WW2 bleeders with these ones and I can't recall whether I checked if they are tapered or straight. I guess it is possible they may not be sealing quite well enough and it is allowing fluid to leak from the bleeder seat into the area between the sleeve and the housing.

I'll take them off and photograph them. It would be interesting to fit the WW2 bleeders and see if that changes things.
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1943 Willys MB
1941 Willys MBT Trailer
1941 Australian LP2A Machine Gun Carrier
1943 White M3A1AOP Scout Car
1944 Ford M8 Armoured Car
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  #395  
Old 28-06-20, 08:43
Big D Big D is offline
Darryl
 
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Default M8 restoration

Hi all,

Iíve been tied up with a few other projects so have only just been able to get back to working on the M8 again.

The problem brake wheel cylinders are on the agenda again. As you might recall I picked one of the wheels which was particularly leaky and removed the wheel and drum assembly and took the brake shoes off. I got a magnifying glass out and lay there for a bit and just watched the base of the wheel cylinder to see where the fluid was coming from. Just with line pressure I could see fluid seeping out between the piston and the sleeve.

I figured then that it was time for a change so I ordered two of the Raybestos type MK37 kits from Ross Prince in Australia. Again, I was sure these would cure my wheel cylinder woes and I fitted them to two of the wheels. I cranked up the pressure bleeder to 5 pounds and had started to bleed the system but got distracted by a few other things. When I came back half an hour later I noticed fluid pooling around one of the wheels. Dammit! I pulled the wheel and drum off that wheel and sure enough, fluid is obviously working its way out again. Fluid is also coming out on the other wheel I worked on, so clearly these new kits have not fixed the problem.

I am back to pointing the finger at the wheel cylinders and I figure there are only two possible causes. Either the brake guy did not seal the sleeves in the cylinders or the sleeves are slightly too big in diameter. Iím not sure that it can be anything elseÖ.Anyway, I have packaged up two of the wheel cylinders along with each of the cylinder kits I have tried; standard pistons with NOS donut cups; standard pistons with new manufactured donut caps; the Raybestos MK-37 kit with new pistons etc. These are all on their way back to the brake guy now who will try them on his bench and see if he can identify where the fluid is coming out.

I liked Jeffís idea about the hydrovac setup so much that I fabricated something like that myself. Like Jeff, I made up a small bracket that bolts to the side of the air-cleaner bracket. I also used a spare check valve from a White Scout Car that I had and ran that between the manifold and the hydrovac with some 3/8Ē solid tube. I will finalise this once I get the brakes sorted, but the picture should give you the idea.

I still have a small problem with the thermostat housing seeping a bit of coolant where it meets with the cylinder head. It is not much Ė maybe ľ - Ĺ teaspoon - but just enough to be annoying. I find the design a bit frustrating that one of the studs is inside the housing and you canít easily tighten both nuts on the sides of the thermostat housing down without disassembling the housing.

I picked up a nice Plum marked axe and have tidied this up and painted it to go with the shovel and pick that I have also freshened up.
Thanks to Charles, I now have the plate I was missing off the long electrical box in the engine mounting cross member in the engine bay. That finishes that part off nicely.

The .30cal spare parts box I got from Charles now has a coat of paint on it and Iíll add some decals to it shortly.

I got some exhaust tubing folded up and fitted that to the exhaust system. I donít think I quite got the angle of the tubing perfect as it came out from under the hull but it looks pretty good.

I am still working on getting the ammeter going. I have three here which donít seem to work so if anyone has a spare shunt type 100A ammeter Iíd be interested.

Thatís all for this weekÖ.
Attached Thumbnails
20200622_143227.jpg   20200622_073654.jpg   20200621_163923.jpg   20200628_113254.jpg   20200622_162950.jpg  

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1943 Willys MB
1941 Willys MBT Trailer
1941 Australian LP2A Machine Gun Carrier
1943 White M3A1AOP Scout Car
1944 Ford M8 Armoured Car
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  #396  
Old 28-06-20, 08:44
Big D Big D is offline
Darryl
 
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Default M8 restoration

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1943 Willys MB
1941 Willys MBT Trailer
1941 Australian LP2A Machine Gun Carrier
1943 White M3A1AOP Scout Car
1944 Ford M8 Armoured Car
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  #397  
Old 28-06-20, 09:41
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Mike Kelly Mike Kelly is offline
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Default cups

hi Darryl

My neighbour has had problems with modern replacement imperial size brake rubber cups ( Made in Spain ) . The old original cups had a wider sealing lip compared to the modern replacements which are a bit of a bodge. PBR cups were pretty good but they are not easy to find these days. A good brake place is TRADE Brakes http://www.tradebrake.com.au/ they are very good with older vehicles and even have the old style lining rivets. Don't know what size your cylinders are but old stock PBR stuff turns up on EBAY sometimes. https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/3-PBR-Cy...kAAOSwk~pegcS3
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Last edited by Mike Kelly; 28-06-20 at 15:16.
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  #398  
Old 29-06-20, 04:38
Big D Big D is offline
Darryl
 
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Default M8 restoration

Hi Mike,

Thanks for the reply. I thought after writing that last update that the new cups I had made, were actually made to fit the sleeve bores so they must be a match to that diameter. That sort of rules out the idea that the bores are fractionally too big as those cups were matched to them. As you say, maybe they don't seal as well as the ones with the older material. I'm not sure. It seems strange. The brakes aren't rocket science so I am a bit baffled by the whole thing.
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1943 Willys MB
1941 Willys MBT Trailer
1941 Australian LP2A Machine Gun Carrier
1943 White M3A1AOP Scout Car
1944 Ford M8 Armoured Car
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  #399  
Old 29-06-20, 05:51
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Mike Kelly Mike Kelly is offline
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Default measure

Measure the pistons with a micrometer maybe and the bores ?
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  #400  
Old 29-06-20, 06:54
Andrew Rowe Andrew Rowe is offline
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Hi Big D, can you post a pic of the ammeter you are after, may have something laying about, Cheers Andrew.
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  #401  
Old 29-06-20, 07:12
Big D Big D is offline
Darryl
 
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Hi Mike

Yes, I have sent the cylinders to the brake guy and he will do that. I don't trust my calipers.

Hi Andrew

It looks like this but it is a special Ammeter designed to work across a shunt. I can give you a part number if that helps.
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1943 Willys MB
1941 Willys MBT Trailer
1941 Australian LP2A Machine Gun Carrier
1943 White M3A1AOP Scout Car
1944 Ford M8 Armoured Car
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  #402  
Old 23-07-20, 11:40
Big D Big D is offline
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Default M8 restoration

Hi all,

Amongst other projects this week, Iíve done a bit more tinkering with different things on the M8.

I started up the engine again a week or so ago. It hasnít run for nearly two months but started up almost immediately. I think the fuel pump on it is working very well. It was the first time I had the engine running since I fitted the exhaust system on it and sitting in the driver seat, I wasnít sure it was running initially as the engine was very quiet. Here is another video: https://youtu.be/b6F-Bt4FQ_4

I had left the drive shafts off so I did some testing with the clutch and the gearbox. The clutch is definitely working well and while initially I was able to move through some of the gears, I found I was getting some binding and changing back from reverse into neutral was very tight.
I isolated the problem to the remote linkages, not the transmission. I had fabricated the longer of the two shafts that run between the transmission and the transmission control housing. Although I had the length of the long rod correct, the mounting hole spacing for the universal joint was out by a few mm. After drilling some new holes I put it all back together again and the transmission now shifts smoothly. I used some fairly sturdy pipe for this rather than solid rod. It seems sturdy enough so will see how that goes.

I ran the engine again and shifted through all the gears. It does shift very smoothly but the hydraulic clutch will take some getting used to. It just has a completely different feel to what Iím used to. Reverse gear does sound rumbly but I guess that is the cut of the gears?

Since that testing, Iíve fitted all the driveshafts ready for my road test. I was missing the little cap/cover that locks the universal joint bearing caps in place. After a bit of searching, I found some at a local scrap dealers. Interestingly, these are the same size as the covers that go in the hull above the sponsons for access to the tubing and wiring that runs through the channels on the sides of the vehicle. I have a couple of spares if anyone needs these.

I picked up a couple of M8 wheels a while back so I had the old run flat tyres removed and the wheels blasted and painted. I will swap these out with the two Scout Car/Half track wheels I currently have on the M8.

I spoke to my brake guy today. He has been working on the wheel cylinders I sent him. In his testing, he couldnít fault one of the cylinders (!!) but does believe that the other one is leaking between the sleeve and the cylinder. He is going to press this sleeve out and fit a new one. Hopefully that will fix that one. He agreed with you guys in the US that the kits with the full cup and new pistons (the GMC type kits) are the way to go, so my plan going forward is to fit these new kits to each cylinder, bleed the system and monitor each wheel cylinder. If the cylinder develops a leak, Iíll send it back to the brake guy so he can redo the sleeve. Itís a lot of work, but I canít see another way to progress things and it should all be for the best with the new pistons. Thatís the plan, anywayÖ.

A couple of other jobs Iíve been working on are a bridge weight sign and the turret ring indexing. Anthony from Axeholme Signs came to the party again and supplied me with a paint mask for the bridge weight sign and decals for the turret ring markings. The turret ring markings take some time to do but they do give a very nice result. Having the covers out of the vehicle is the way to do it. I'd say it would be a bit awkward doing it with them fitted around the turret.

That is all for this weekÖ
Attached Thumbnails
20200709_160217.jpg   20200709_160329.jpg   20200719_142830.jpg   20200719_142842.jpg   20200719_142859.jpg  

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Darryl Lennane

1943 Willys MB
1941 Willys MBT Trailer
1941 Australian LP2A Machine Gun Carrier
1943 White M3A1AOP Scout Car
1944 Ford M8 Armoured Car
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  #403  
Old 23-07-20, 11:41
Big D Big D is offline
Darryl
 
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Default M8 restoration

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20200715_113418.jpg   20200717_140042.jpg   20200718_202158.jpg   20200721_212629.jpg   20200720_133915.jpg  

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Darryl Lennane

1943 Willys MB
1941 Willys MBT Trailer
1941 Australian LP2A Machine Gun Carrier
1943 White M3A1AOP Scout Car
1944 Ford M8 Armoured Car
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  #404  
Old 31-08-20, 12:07
Big D Big D is offline
Darryl
 
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Default M8 restoration

Hi all,

Iíve been tied up working on some other projects so itís been a while since my last update.

My brake guy has hopefully worked out a solution for me. You might recall in his testing he couldnít fault one of the wheel cylinders I sent him but believed the other one was leaking between the cylinder and the sleeve. He has changed tack a bit and now believes some different cups will do the job. He supplied me with 12 x English made cups and 12 x Spanish made cups. These are about 1.5mm shorter than the Japanese cups (still good quality he thinks) I was using with the new kits. He fitted these in the two cylinders and had been testing them on the bench at 100psi with no leaks. They are noticeably freer in the cylinder bores than the other cups. I have now replaced all the original pistons and cups with these new pistons, springs and full cups. Iíve made a note that Iíve fitted the English made cups on the driverís side of the vehicle and the Spanish made ones on the other side. I bled the brakes using the pressure bleeder and I will monitor the wheel cylinders now for leaks. I have my fingers crossed!

After bleeding the brakes, I moved the M8 under its own power in the workshop for the first time today. That was quite a feeling but the elation quickly disappeared when I realised I have some tweaking to do and need to sort a number of things out.

The transfer case linkages are not right as I could only select low range today and got no movement in high range. I also couldnít engage the front axle using the lever. Hopefully it is not an interlock problem in the transfer case but Iím more inclined to think I have the lengths of both fabricated control rods wrong so I will need to adjust those.

Iím also not sure about the gearshift lever. I mentioned this some time ago that I had two different shaped gearstick levers, and both appeared to be originals. I had fitted the one that seemed to be a better shape but it really limits where you can have your legs without clashing with the gearstick lever and the steering wheel. I am going to try the other one which has a lower profile when in the forward position (reverse/first gear).

Iíd have to say to that having never driven one of these vehicles before, they appear best suited to someone smaller than me! I am 184cm and 93kg (6 ĹĒ and 204 pounds) and it feels a real tight fit in that driverís area. It seems there is little room between the left side of the steering wheel and the side of the hull and the right side of the steering wheel and the gearstick. It also feels like youíve just about got your knees up around your ears when you have your feet on the pedals. I think the fact that my body is well over 50 years of age doesnít help either! LOL. What are othersí experiences? A slightly smaller diameter steering wheel would help I feel.

Thanks to Brian for supplying me some working ammeters. Iím not quite sure what I changed with the shunt wiring but after some experimentation, I now have a working ammeter in the instrument panel.

That is all for todayÖ
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20200823_090825.jpg   20200823_090917.jpg   20200823_091138.jpg   20200823_091153.jpg   20200823_091343.jpg  

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1943 Willys MB
1941 Willys MBT Trailer
1941 Australian LP2A Machine Gun Carrier
1943 White M3A1AOP Scout Car
1944 Ford M8 Armoured Car
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  #405  
Old 31-08-20, 12:09
Big D Big D is offline
Darryl
 
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Default M8 restoration

More photos.
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20200831_155004.jpg   20200831_155023.jpg   20200831_164104.jpg   20200831_172044.jpg   20200831_172236.jpg  

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1943 Willys MB
1941 Willys MBT Trailer
1941 Australian LP2A Machine Gun Carrier
1943 White M3A1AOP Scout Car
1944 Ford M8 Armoured Car
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  #406  
Old 01-09-20, 05:20
Bob Carriere Bob Carriere is offline
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Default Sounds familiar.......

....... similar to the CMP cab 11 Blues............. designed for depression raised teenagers who were 5'5" and 135 pounds with size 8 boots .....brave little fellas they were!!!!!!!

Bob C.
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  #407  
Old 01-09-20, 11:37
Big D Big D is offline
Darryl
 
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Default M8 restoration

Hi Bob,

Yes, it wasn't something I considered when I bought the beast. Haha. I'm told that some people just sit on a blanket rather than a cushion which would lower one a bit and help with the legroom. I might give that a try.
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1943 Willys MB
1941 Willys MBT Trailer
1941 Australian LP2A Machine Gun Carrier
1943 White M3A1AOP Scout Car
1944 Ford M8 Armoured Car
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  #408  
Old 02-09-20, 10:01
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Lynn Eades Lynn Eades is offline
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Darryl, If you continue to have trouble with the brakes leaking, you could add a 3 psi residual line pressure valve. It will hold a low pressure in the lines, which will help to keep the cup lips against the bores. It will not make your brakes drag as the return springs should be enough to overcome the pressure. There is possibly a line pressure valve in the bottom of the m/c, already, but an inline one will have a higher pressure.
Were the cylinders originally fitted with cup expanders? A number of old Dodge wheel cylinders that I've opened up, had them.
What might be involved in altering the angle of the steering column? I see the dash panel is a limitation. How is the box mounted?
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  #409  
Old 02-09-20, 13:09
Big D Big D is offline
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Hi Lynn,

Thanks for the reply. I don't want to speak too soon but I have yet to see any leakage from the wheel cylinders. I have my fingers crossed....

As far as the ergonomics go, I have been reminded that the armoured floor I have in the front is a bit higher than the original floor. That wouldn't help.

The foot pedal placement will also take some getting used to. I wonder how low the clutch and brake levers supposed to be with respect to the floor or throttle pedal. It seems that you have to lift your legs quite high off the floor to even operate the pedals, which gives the 'knees around the ears' feeling.

I adjusted both pedals today at the back of the master cylinders and this dropped the pedals a bit. I couldn't get as much adjustment out of the clutch adjuster though. I did wonder about putting in a thick strip of steel to act as a packer between the mounting points on the clutch and brake pedal assembly and the hull using some longer bolts. This would have the effect of directly lowering the pedals which would also help. I don't think there is much wiggle room with moving the steering box.

I will keep tinkering!
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1943 Willys MB
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  #410  
Old 30-09-20, 19:37
MikeV MikeV is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big D View Post
Hi Lynn,

Thanks for the reply. I don't want to speak too soon but I have yet to see any leakage from the wheel cylinders. I have my fingers crossed....

As far as the ergonomics go, I have been reminded that the armoured floor I have in the front is a bit higher than the original floor. That wouldn't help.

The foot pedal placement will also take some getting used to. I wonder how low the clutch and brake levers supposed to be with respect to the floor or throttle pedal. It seems that you have to lift your legs quite high off the floor to even operate the pedals, which gives the 'knees around the ears' feeling.

I adjusted both pedals today at the back of the master cylinders and this dropped the pedals a bit. I couldn't get as much adjustment out of the clutch adjuster though. I did wonder about putting in a thick strip of steel to act as a packer between the mounting points on the clutch and brake pedal assembly and the hull using some longer bolts. This would have the effect of directly lowering the pedals which would also help. I don't think there is much wiggle room with moving the steering box.

I will keep tinkering!
Thanks For the update on your brakes, we finally got our M8 out for a test run and 3 times around the tank arena the brakes became spongy and the left rear started leaking again. It looks like we are going to need the same major over haul as your greyhound
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  #411  
Old 30-09-20, 19:44
MikeV MikeV is offline
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Default Our Museum Grey hound

As you can see In the one Picture not much room for 2 6 ft crew members. we are knocking knees. and the second is just after we ran it and we parked it till we could move it back inside.
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  #412  
Old 30-09-20, 19:47
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Default Our Museum Grey hound

Drivers view from the grey hound yes that is a Sherman in the distance. And yes it Runs and Yes it fires Blanks.
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  #413  
Old 06-11-20, 09:02
Big D Big D is offline
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Default M8 restoration

Hi all,

Iíve been reminded by a couple of people that it has been some time since my last update. Iíd been out of action after having an operation on my foot and having crutches and then a moon boot is not conducive to getting in and out of an M8. I can now get a shoe on my dodgy foot so I got back to work on the M8 in the last couple of weeks.

My last update was around the gear stick and the brakes. I fitted the other gear stick I had to the housing. I also raised the height of the housing a little bit as the rods were fouling a bit on the circular cut-outs in the intermediate floor. The height increase has worked. I also checked the front axle declutch system on the transfer case. That is working correctly so I am back now to experimenting with the rods to the levers. I donít think I have the lengths of these right yet. The gear stick has quite a different angle to the other one and I think this will give me some more leg room.

After rebuilding all the wheel cylinders using those English and Spanish cups I can report that these are still working well. Iím not sure why the other ones leaked and my brake guy canít figure it out either as the other ones were good quality. Touch wood, there are no leaks.

However, I was, and still am, having problems with a soft pedal since I changed to the Raybestos cups and pistons. I also found that the piston in the master cylinder was quite slow to return so I figured it was a good chance to strip the master cylinder and satisfy myself that all was well in there. I couldnít find anything wrong in the master cylinder and so I reassembled it with some new rubber grease on the cups. One thing I did do when fitting the master cylinder to the hull bracket was to cut a slot in each of the mounting bolts. Iíve found that the two top bolts on the master cylinder are so close to the body of the master cylinder that you canít get a socket or a spanner on them if you have to remove them from the mount. When I next have to remove the master cylinder, I can use a long screwdriver to remove those two top bolts.

While I had the brake master cylinder out I thought I might as well check the clutch master cylinder as well. I had noticed the odd drop of fluid at the back of this cylinder. It wasnít such that it was leaving a pool of fluid on the floor, but just the odd drop near the top of the foot pedal. I stripped this and checked everything. Again, all looked good. I spoke to my brake guy who put the stainless steel sleeve in this for me and he was reluctant for me to change that donut cup on the end of the piston. As he said, it had done nothing and was new. I decided to reassemble it with some new rubber grease on the cups and set it up on the bench for a few hours and pressurised it with the pressure bleeder. The area at the back of the piston appeared just slightly wet but no drips developed so I decided to put it back in the vehicle and try it. I bled the master cylinder in situ and then connected everything up and pressure bled the system again. That all worked well and the clutch is fine again. There are no signs of any drips from the master cylinder yet. Touch wood againÖ

Back to the brakes and the soft pedal. Despite all sorts of attempts at bleeding the system with a pressure bleeder, the pedal is what Iíd call Ďsoftí and gradually goes to the floor when it is depressed. The master cylinder is working fine. I removed the line to it, bled it in situ and connected a short line with a plugged end to the outlet. This gave me a hard pedal so I knew the master cylinder is working and the primary cup is doing its job. I've actually found that fitting the two master cylinders here and bleeding them in situ (rather than on a bench) does work quite well. You can easily manipulate the foot pedals and both master cylinders are right in front of you which makes bleeding them nice and easy.

In the meantime, I wasnít happy with the right rear wheel as I had fluid seeping from the connections between the slave cylinders and the brake Tee at the top. The Tee and lines were both tidy but used and the tube nuts were not the greatest, so I wanted to replace both lines and the Tee connection. Some NOS parts that I had ordered arrived including some new brake lines, so I thought Iíd fit those before going any further. Unfortunately the lines that arrived were all the longer ones for the left side of the vehicle, so I couldnít use them, and had to clean up another couple of lines that I had here that had good tube nuts on them.

I now have a few of these NOS brake lines spare if anyone is looking for any!

While I was working on that rear wheel one of the guys from Action Engineering next door came through and knowing I had been having problems with the brakes asked why I wasnít using a good vacuum pump to bleed the brakes. He returned with a fancy Snap On brand vacuum pump that runs off compressed air. I thought it was a good chance to use this system so I ran it over the entire braking system, bleeding at each nipple. As Iíve found in the past though, the difficulty with these vacuum pumps is that they seem to suck air in around the bleeder nipple , and despite applying some silicon grease around the bleeder nipples, you are never sure if the air that you see in the plastic tube is coming from the braking system or being sucked in around the bleeder nipple.

This bleeding had no effect on the brake pedal so then I tried isolating the various parts of the braking system. Using three sets of vise grips and some cardboard to protect the hoses, I clamped each of the rubber hoses that supply fluid to each axle. Viola! A very firm brake pedal. I then moved the vise grips to the far end of each hose to each axle. There was no change meaning the brake hoses were not expanding at all. This has proven to me that the problem is in the wheel cylinders.

What I had recently read about the difficulties in bleeding a system with these vertical wheel cylinders is now coming to fruition! There is obviously air getting trapped under the top cup in each wheel cylinder and no amount of pressure or vacuum bleeding wants to dislodge it.

I am still working on a solution but if anyone has come up with a novel way to get the last bit of air out of the wheel cylinders, I am all ears!

Damn brakes!

That is all...
Attached Thumbnails
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1943 Willys MB
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  #414  
Old 06-11-20, 09:03
Big D Big D is offline
Darryl
 
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Default M8 restoration

More photos.
Attached Thumbnails
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  #415  
Old 06-11-20, 11:51
T Creighton T Creighton is offline
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Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Katikati New Zealand
Posts: 167
Default Air trapped in the vertical cylinder ??

Hi Daryl,
You have overcome many problems along the way with your clever lines of thinking so I hesitate to offer this theory but it may be helpful (or not).

When the brake shoes are adjusted out to the drum, the cylinder cups will follow the shoe due to the spring between the two cups.
In a vertically mounted cylinder this could result in a cavity above the inlet port and below the uppermost cup that air could be trapped in from when the lines were first installed.
Being above the inlet port the air could remain trapped when bleeding the brakes.
If you were to slacken the shoe adjusters right back the shoe springs would draw the shoes back and move the cup down closer to the inlet to reduce the cavity and the risk of trapped air.
Then bleed the brakes.
Then re adjust the shoes out hard while holding some pressure on the pedal at the same time.
Then release the pedal and re adjust the shoes for clearance.
Best Regards, Terry.
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  #416  
Old 06-11-20, 12:15
Big D Big D is offline
Darryl
 
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Default M8 restoration

Hi Terry

Great suggestion, thanks. Unfortunately we are one step ahead of you. My retired mechanic friend suggested exactly the same thing and I did that today prior to another round of bleeding. I neglected to put that in my update, sorry.

Any other ideas?
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1943 Willys MB
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  #417  
Old 06-11-20, 15:09
maple_leaf_eh maple_leaf_eh is offline
Terry Warner
 
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I just read through a number of recent posts, and smiled when you mentioned moving the M8 under its own power a few months ago. That is always a monumental occasion - like first flight in a repaired aircraft, or first shots downrange for a rebuilt rifle.

You are fortunate to have willing and equally clever businesses nearby who are helping you with parts and service. I could hear the voice of experience talking in the discussion of sleeved brake cylinders.

As for ergonomics, there is an acceptable modification in wartime Jeeps to notch the leftside wheel arch so the driver's seat can go back another 3-4". Otherwise, today's well fed enthusiasts wouldn't fit. Unfortunately the interior partitions of the M8 rule that out as an option. You might not have a choice except to change out the seat cushions for two thicknesses of folded wool blanket against a single thickness of curved seatback.
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  #418  
Old 07-11-20, 12:17
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Lynn Eades Lynn Eades is offline
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Default

Darryl, have you disconnected the master cyl. and back bled it. Meaning using a pressure bleeder and pushing the fluid from the wheel cylinders back?
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  #419  
Old 07-11-20, 20:36
Big D Big D is offline
Darryl
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Dunedin, New Zealand
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Default M8 restoration

Hi Terry

Yes, it has often felt like two steps forward and one step back during this process.

I agree on the seat. A folded blanket maybe the best option to sit on. I have found though the fact that the steering wheel does come off nice and easy that removal is a good way to help one get in and out of the drivers seat reasonably quickly.
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1943 Willys MB
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  #420  
Old 07-11-20, 20:40
Big D Big D is offline
Darryl
 
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Default M8 restoration

Hi Lynn,

No, reverse bleeding is something I had read about but I know little about it and I wasnít sure how practical it was to actually do it. I guess I would need to do it at each Tee connection on each wheel but I figured by the time I did that on each wheel I might have introduced a whole lot of air anyway.

Any thoughts on how Iíd go about it?
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1943 White M3A1AOP Scout Car
1944 Ford M8 Armoured Car
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