M151A1 "jeep" in RAAF service?

Hanno Spoelstra · #1 05-08-07, 16:28

On the Australian War Memorial Photograph Database I found a picture of a M151A1 "jeep" in service with the RAAF in Vietnam. As far as I know, the M151-series truck was never in Australian inventory.

Who can tell more about the use of M151-series jeeps by the Australian military? Was the one pictured here a one-off or were more used in Vietnam?

Thanks,
Hanno

Quote:

Negative Number: P02120.001
Caption: Vung Tau, South Vietnam. 1970-01. Vietnamese children from an orphanage, possibly the An Phong orphanage, play happily on top of and in a RAAF jeep. They are watched by Father John Grannall (right) and Bill Deane, the public relations officer for the National Headquarters, Australian Red Cross, Melbourne. The orphanage received support as a civil aid project from locally-based Australian and American forces. (Donor C. Tilly)

Col Tigwell · #2 06-08-07, 00:10

The story is correct, and I had seen the vechicle personally.

We also were loaned the much later model when we were operating out of Vung Tau, on operation wintergrip.

When we went to return the vehicle the yank said no way, we wrote it off, I am not bringing it back on charge.

"Our Jeep" at least retained its US markings as this one does appear to have.

We were going to bring it back on the last C130 uplift, and use it on the flight line at Richmond.

Boss was flying the airplane and said no way.

Shortly after that the RAAF issued an instruction that no foriegn vehicles were to be brought back

Regards

Col

phoenix · #3 06-08-07, 05:07

I've seen a few photos around the internet of these vehicles in vietnam. Many of them on this website

http://www.hotkey.net.au/~marshalle/

Keith Webb · #4 06-08-07, 06:26

Quote:

Originally posted by Col Tigwell
The story is correct, and I had seen the vechicle personally.

We also were loaned the much later model when we were operating out of Vung Tau, on operation wintergrip.

When we went to return the vehicle the yank said no way, we wrote it off, I am not bringing it back on charge.

"Our Jeep" at least retained its US markings as this one does appear to have.

We were going to bring it back on the last C130 uplift, and use it on the flight line at Richmond.

Boss was flying the airplane and said no way.

Shortly after that the RAAF issued an instruction that no foriegn vehicles were to be brought back

Great to hear something from someone who was there. I spoke to Mike Cecil and he basically confirmed this:

Quote:

(1) not an Australian issue item: note USA number on bonnet (hood) with 'RAAF' stencilled above: this is NOT an RAAF number.
(2) not OFFICIALLY used by RAAF.
(3) 'acquired' by various means not necessarily legal, and a few used by Army and RAAF, also CJ3B similarly 'acquired'.

Hanno Spoelstra · #5 06-08-07, 10:28

Indeed great to see this confirmed by someone who has seen the vehicle personally. Thanks Col!
So it is a classical case of beg, steal and borrow which is wholly necessary to keep an Army on its feet. Some military logistics guys say it was easy for Napoleon as he could still send off his troops and told them to live off the land. Seems not much has changed since.

Will look at the linked site in more detail later, seems difficult to browse.

Thanks all!

Hanno

Col Tigwell · #6 06-08-07, 10:51

We had another later model jeep, which came as a complete surprise.

When the first of our AD kits arrived, amongst all the parachutes, strapping, honeycomb and platforms, was a brand new jeep, complete with US army numbers and markings.

The explanation given to us by our US instructors, was for the early drops, they wanted a load that they were familair with, so they chucked the Jeep in.

We must have air dropped that Jeep so many times, until the end came.

I should explain for those that do not know, that we use a smaller chute to extract the load from the airplane, and then in due course as the load falls, then this same chutes pulls the bags off the main chutes, and the load then becomes a controlled decent. On its last ride, the deployment chute failed to pull the bags off. So the jeep and platform were driven at high speed into the ground, with amongst other things the prop shaft driven right through the rear diff.

Was not a great problem as the jeep had never been brought on charge, and actually could not be driven off the base.

Jeeps after the WW2 models, were not populair as the Australian content caused many problems.

Regards

Col

Hanno Spoelstra · #7 06-08-07, 10:58

Quote:

Originally posted by Col Tigwell
When the first of our AD kits arrived, amongst all the parachutes, strapping, honeycomb and platforms, was a brand new jeep, complete with US army numbers and markings.

The explanation given to us by our US instructors, was for the early drops, they wanted a load that they were familair with, so they chucked the Jeep in.

We must have air dropped that Jeep so many times, until the end came.

Reminds me of an M151A2 jeep I saw in a museum workshop in Canada. It came from the US Army and had been used as an instructional vehicle for air drops. Very low mileage, not a spot of rust, but the whole vehicle was so bent and buckled it could never be driven again.

Weren´t the M151/series jeeps known as "discardable"?

H.

Mike Kelly · #8 06-08-07, 12:06

Converted to Right Hand Drive , it was driven to Corowa 2005 .

I believe there were one or two around Canberra years ago - ex- embassy staff vehicles or some similar scenario like that . And maybe the U.S. Pine Gap base had a few also . And the former long wave U.S. Submarine radio station in West. Aust . would have seen a few .

Mike

mike mckinley · #9 06-08-07, 13:59

Quote:

Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra
Weren´t the M151/series jeeps known as "discardable"?

hi hanno

it seems that every army had nicknames for the m151 series. in the canadian forces they were called, disposable jeep, pattern 74 jeep (for the year they were brought on strength), and just jeep. i have also heard them called vietnam jeep, and some very unflattering names full of profanity, which i'll leave the imagination to figure out. personally, i own an a2, and i find it to be a decent vehicle.....certainly the most comforable to drive.

mike

Col Tigwell · #10 06-08-07, 23:20

Our biggest problem was air droping the Landrover, especially the LWB models.

Nine times out of ten we would bend the chassis enough that you could not shut the doors.

All sorts of experts came by, with all sorts of solutions but none worked.

Until we hit on an extra layer of honeycomb under the front axle which appeared to spread the impact load better. No more problems except the front wheels often were just high enough not to get enough traction to drive off the platform.

As I said to the army major who was watching, we will have the driver put it in 4WD. Sure enough that fixed it.

After we got rid of the WW2 jeeps, the replacement ones, built by Willy's Australia, with part local content where just heaps of rubbish.

Regards

Col

rob love · #11 06-08-07, 23:36

Quote:

Originally posted by mike mckinley
it seems that every army had nicknames for the m151 series. in the canadian forces they were called, disposable jeep, pattern 74 jeep (for the year they were brought on strength), and just jeep. i have also heard them called vietnam jeep, and some very unflattering names full of profanity, which i'll leave the imagination to figure out.

The other common nickname for them in Cdn service was "rollover jeep". I don't think I have to explain the meaning behind that one.

Hanno Spoelstra · #12 10-08-07, 00:12

Quote:

Originally posted by Col Tigwell
We must have air dropped that Jeep so many times, until the end came.

Col, here's a pic for you to remind you of the fun times you must have had while dropping jeeps from aircraft.

H.

Phil Waterman · #13 10-08-07, 00:44

Quote:

Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra
Col, here's a pic for you to remind you of the fun times you must have had while dropping jeeps from aircraft.

When I was a kid growing up in Washington DC my father took me out to a big military demonstration for top brass at Andrews Air Force Base. Part of the show was a low or medium level drop of M-38 Jeep, from a C-130. You guest it, shoot did not open, splat on a run way, blew all four tires and collapsed the axles, swayed the wheels out like a bug. But it was the audience that was more interesting mostly all brass grade military. So the Air Officers are looking at the Army Officers about who is responsible and the Navy Officers are trying not to laugh.

sth65pac · #14 10-08-07, 14:59

Hanno,

You said "So it is a classical case of beg, steal and borrow which is wholly necessary to keep an Army on its feet. " This is not correct.

These vehicles were assigned to units of the US Army. We had our own landrovers. Some Jeeps were 'loaned' to units.

As is the case when operating together with another military force items (sometimes vehicles) exchange. They did not keep the army on its feet, but were an addition as a 'good-will thing'. Uncle Sam was big in Vietnam. No need to account for every last nut and bolt or Jeep, UH-1B, airconditioner or pair of GP Boots, (which you bought in country on the black market).

Also, many 'written off' items were resurrected, and became property of adjoining forces. And some Jeeps ended up in this category. I can recall an aircraft ground power unit being 'property' of another country.. the RAAF number plates were still fitted to the equipment...

There are examples of all of this throughout military history. I can recall 'gifting' some equipment to the New Zealander's to assist in repairs to their equipment! Its just a done thing.

I just want to set the record as straight as possible.

Ian

Alex Blair (RIP) · #15 10-08-07, 16:01

Quote:

Originally posted by sth65pac
There are examples of all of this throughout military history. I can recall 'gifting' some equipment to the New Zealander's to assist in repairs to their equipment! Its just a done thing.

And don't forget "Barter..swap....exchange..etc..
This was especially done at unit level..sometimes within like minded units or up to CO level...
A barter arrangement that sticks out in my befuddled mind was the Take over of the US air base in '69 ..Wheelus ...in Libya...
The US air Force took evey thing that wasn't nailed down and flew it by C-123(Baby Herc's) to Decimamanno ,Sardinia where they has a US coast guard stn,Carved out of rock by the Germans during WW2..
The Stn.had huge storage area but only 3/4 ton trucks...We(RCAF) did the moving from our landing strip to their storage area with our 3 ton Dodge stake trucks..We ran pretty well around the clock for a week...the last load out was a three tonner full of booze...which their load master told us to take it to our mess....which we promptly did..
So that was an example of barter services..
I happened to be one of the drivers and can assure you that it didn't take long to drink the 'evidence'...

Hanno Spoelstra · #16 13-08-07, 10:49

Quote:

Originally posted by sth65pac
I just want to set the record as straight as possible.

Ian,

Sorry for getting off on the wrong foot with my "beg, steal and borrow" remark. What I meant to address is the very practice you describe. I should have used Alex´s wording "barter .. swap .. exchange" as I did not mean to be negative about this practice about which I think we agree is necessary to keep an Army on its feet.

Attached below is another photo from the Australian War Memorial Photograph Database. I have no details about this picture, so I do not know if it was actually used by the Australian armed forces or whether this is an American M151 pictured by an Australian soldier.

sth65pac · #17 15-08-07, 13:36

Hanno,

It looks like the Jeep is being refuelled. Many many many photos were taken on the spur of the moment. This one you have shown looks like a US jeep & soldier refuelling a US vehicle. (the haircut is different and looks USMC)

In my military career, I spoke to our ship's photographer to get facts straight, I was Aviation. He was a photographer. His photos reflect his view, but not what we did. We had a few discussions about this, and he took my comments as valid.

The truth can be distorted by time. THis is a personal annoyance...

And any items LOANED were either permanent or temporary loaned.

Also a picture for you.. a VERY busy photo in 1968. Aussies and US together

Ian