LSVW for sale - Crown Assets

[Hans Mulder]

https://www.gcsurplus.ca/mn-eng.cfm?...1&sf=ferm-clos

I may have to buy one, just for the historical value.

[rob love]

Now that is a deceiving ad if there ever was one. No photo, no mileage, and just the factory specifications. Something tells me this is not a showroom condition LSVW.


And even if it was, I am not sure what one would do with an LSVW. There is very little that can be said about them that would be positive.

I note at least one error in the ad: Tires: Michelin 1400-R20-XL. I really doubt that puny little 4 cylinder diesel could move a set of 14x20s around, and those squeeling brakes certainly could not stop them.

[chris vickery]

Ahh, Rob. Do I suspect some disdain for these beasts, similar to your feelings about the Iltis???

[rob love]

Disdain barely covers the LSVW.....you would have to add words like loathing and disgust to make the sentence lean towards my feelings for those trucks. The fact that the CF managed to get 20 years out of them is incredible.

While in Bosnia, I would see packets of Italian ones show up at our base for fuel, and theirs did not seem to suffer the same chronic problems our did, so I think I will have to blame the combination of parts Western Star assembled along with poor manufacture of some of their parts.

I don't even know where to begin on these trucks, so I will leave it at that.

[chris vickery]

So Rob
When is the legacy of buying troublesome foreign made vehicles going to end?
The Iltis, LSVW and MLVW have all been plaqued with issues right from new. Once again the taxpayer has been bamboozled into believing that we at least have Canadian content in these crap boxes but what we have ended up are only facsimiles of original designs made under license.
For the life of me I don't understand why we never piggybacked on US orders like the M35 series of trucks. The American trucks never seemed to be plaqued plus the supply stream of parts was easily available. Commonality amongst allies makes way better sense unless this is a case of wanting to wave the sovereignty issue by being different.
I think even their series of Stewart Stevenson trucks were superior to the LSVW fleet we fielded. For the use fullness of the Iltis we might as well had Jeep resurrect the M38A1 or otherwise used the CUCV...

[rob love]

The MLVW was not plagued with problems in my books. They are now 33, and still going for another 5 years possibly. In many cases, problems experienced in the East were applied to the whole fleet. Here in the west we did not suffer from things like the rusted out rims, or the levels of corrosion on the bodies. We did run a V8 where the US ran the 6 cylinder, and perhaps that is what contributed to some of the suspension problems.

The original tenders to replace the MLVW was going to be a sole source for the Stewart Stevenson. They came n two sizes, and were basically the Steyr HLVW truck with a North American engine and transmission, in different chassis and load configurations.

The sole sourcing had two problems....the S-S was nearing the end of it's service life in the US, and many companies complained because they were not going to be able to compete in the competition. Eight years later we still have no replacement, although the militia did manage to get the International Defense trucks.

There were programs announced recently that will replace the LSVW, the MLVW, and the HLVW fleets in the next 7 years. One has to remember that every time these trucks go to the field, they are driven to the maximum of their capabilities. The fact that we get decades of service from them is impressive.

[Jes Andersen]

It hard to understand where the years have gone since the LSVW were coming off the line at Western Star in Kelowna. I had the opportunity to tour the plant and look over the finished product but my time with SMP type vehicles was long over by that time. I can't say that I was ever fond of these and by most reports, the users weren't either. Design notwithstanding, hard use and years take their toll on any equipment, regardless of the efforts of the maintainers. If this is the beginning of disposal for LSVW vehicles, I wonder if they will be demilled rather than sold as drivable trucks. The one in discussion here could, as suggested, be more 'residue' than operational.

[rob love]

There appears to be no restriction on the sale of this one, and as well they have been approved to MOT safety standards with the exception of the daytime running lights.

Very possible these will be the exception to the recent releases (and non-releases) of vehicles.

[Gordon Yeo]

If, this is the beginning of the end of LSVW then what vehicle has been purchased and is replacing it? ?The G-wagon was the Iltis replacement and was in use long before the last Iltis was dumped.

[maple_leaf_eh]

Originally Posted by Jes Andersen

... If this is the beginning of disposal for LSVW vehicles, I wonder if they will be demilled rather than sold as drivable trucks. The one in discussion here could, as suggested, be more 'residue' than operational.

All the M151A2s were sold as stripped scrap metal. Any bets scrapped LSVWs will reappear as 1993 'Western Star 1.5 ton cab over engine cab-and-chassis registrations'?

[45jim]

You can place your blame squarely on the Government in power, DND and PWGSC for the selection of the LSVW and the Iltis. In order to get Canadian content (i.e. jobs) it was decided to purchase the rights to produce vehicles domestically whenever possible if the production volumes warranted it. Sometimes it worked out, the MLVW and the HLVW were mostly successful but sometimes it didn't.

The Iltis was already long in the tooth (production wise) and there were few if any international sales left to be had so the rights were available. Same with the LSVW, no more orders forthcoming for Italy so they sold the license. Both of these vehicles were developed and manufactured by reputable companies (Audi and Fiat) and were relatively well engineered and soldiered on in those countries for a long time. However, they were developed to meet specifications that weren't ours and the "Canadianization" process is probably responsible for a good chunk of the problems. If they built them as they were designed they wouldn't have lasted any longer or been any better though, as they just weren't what we needed. The companies producing what we really wanted would only sell us finished goods and wouldn't allow our supply base to provide parts for their domestic contracts. It was a question of "find a way or do without".

Western Star was the winning bidder to manufacture the LSVW, they didn't design it. Blaming them is a waste, the Government wanted to put a major contract into BC and gave them a truck to build, so they built it. They had an excellent reputation in the heavy truck manufacturing business before being bought out by Freightliner. So its not like they couldn't build a good truck, they were given a truck to build and it had to include parts and pieces from Canadian companies as selected by DND and PWGSC. Most of the problems lie there.

I worked on the LUVW program with them where they tried to resurrect the LSVW on a four-door chassis to compete with the Hummer (vehicle of choice) and they tried extremely hard to improve the basic vehicle but the writing was on the wall, even though the project was DND funded and the final vehicle was not bad the confidence in the vehicle was so low that nobody got the LUVW. Eventually, the G-Wagen was bought to fill that role.

The problem with tagging on US (or anyone else's) procurements is that we get no jobs or experience for our money. We develop no suppliers, learn no new skills and do nothing for our economy, we can't even support the vehicles in the field. Even the requirement for the companies to spend 100% of the contract value in Canada doesn't help as they can spend over decades on sundry items like fasteners and just add a couple of layers of Quality Assurance testing to drive the price up and reduce their exposure.

We are capable of designing our own vehicles and we should. We could standardize the major drive train, suspensions and automotive components with the US to keep us interoperable. We could have bought half-assembled Hummers from the US (as Israel did) and develop our own bodies and versions to meet our specific needs. We should have tied up Jeep to make militarized TJ and JK's rather than Jankel in the UK, much better choice for the reserves than a GM pickup or a G-Wagen.

Sorry if its a rant here, but if the Government is going to spend money we should spend it here, but wisely. Sweden has always gone its own way, developing its own vehicles, ship and aircraft and does it with an economy 1/3 the size of Canada's.

[rob love]

Back to this particular truck: I did a little research and if someone is going to bid on it, they may want to look closely at the back frame area.

[Yeo.NT]

A friend just informed me he wa bidding on the LSVW, the bidding went North of $8000.00

[chris vickery]

Nuts.
I suspect if this is the beginning, it will be like the Iltii surplused out. Various lots, some good, some bad. At first the hungries will jump on them and drive the prices high, just like the Iltis. Then it will bottom out.
If I recall correctly, some of the first Iltis were anywhere from 3-5K. When I bought mine I paid $1500 each for decent runners. In the end it was all residue and still commanded the same prices as runners.
The sweet spot in right after the mad rush and just before the panic last minute buyers once the supply runs out.
Any ideas on supply chain for these beasts?
Lots of Iltii were incomplete to start with at auction and we know how the parts sourcing for these went.
On another note, I understand the the US Govt is releasing mas quantities of HMMVW, maybe that market will bottom and provide decent entry level pricing....

[rob love]

The Humvees went from an itial average of around 30K+ to now selling for around 10K or less on average. They still have at least 3,000 to go on this initial contract with the seller.

$8,500 for an LSVW? Someone is paying extra to be the first guy on the block with one.

[B. Harris]

Great thread, good reading! Keep up the info your folks!

Harris

[chris vickery]

Consider at $8500 for a LSVW how close you are dollar wise to actually buying a nice historic project veh that may have some wartime history and real re-sale value afterwards. Remember guys, these LSVW trucks are not fully restored vehicles neither. Ya they are kinda neat but buyer beware and don't overspend.
I suspect the real value on these at auction 3-5k

[rob love]

Originally Posted by chris vickery

Consider at $8500 for a LSVW how close you are dollar wise to actually buying a nice historic project veh that may have some wartime history and real re-sale value afterwards. Remember guys, these LSVW trucks are not fully restored vehicles neither. Ya they are kinda neat but buyer beware and don't overspend.
I suspect the real value on these at auction 3-5k

I suspect they should be paying folks to take them away. The LSVW has very little redeeming features. Especially anything from East of the Manitoba border, with the incredible rust problems. There is a premium to be paid for the novelty of owning a truck that is still in military service. As a truck however, they are 23 years old, and replacement parts (and you will need replacement parts) range from hard to find to non-existant.

Example: why, on a cross country military vehicle, would you put the air cleaner intake on the bottom of the engine compartment? Would there not be the possibility of ingesting water if you drove too deep through streams or during flood duties?

As a mechanic, I always hated any vehicle that makes you take the engine out in order to simply replace the starter. And why, after 20 years of service, did they not come up with an oil pressure sending unit that does not fail every couple of months. They rupture internally then leak out the bleed hole.

[Scott Bentley]

Originally Posted by rob love

As a truck however, they are 23 years old, and replacement parts (and you will need replacement parts) range from hard to find to non-existant.

That's my thought as well. Iveco isn't exactly a household name in Canada.

[maple_leaf_eh]

Since we have established that there is no love for this vehicle, how about compiling a list of its obvious faults. Go ahead fellas!

- air cleaner intake on the bottom of the engine compartment, and risks ingesting water if you drove too deep through streams or flood waters.

- to remove the starter, you take the engine out.

- oil pressure sending unit that does not fail every couple of months. They rupture internally then leak out the bleed hole.

- fuel intake in fuel tank is so high the bottom 1/4 tank of fuel can't be used.

[rob love]

-Front driveshaft is prone to seizing (operators fault really for not reading the manual on how to grease the CV joints) resulting in high vibration which cracks the transfer case/transmission mounts
-Fuel filter is located after the fuel pump. Fuel pump has a coarse filter in it, but very little reservoir for sediment collection.
-Original fuel tanks had a non-SMP neck which made refuelling difficult.
-Alternator mounting was poor, resulting in alternators falling off, especially when the larger alternator is installed.
-transmission oil cooler lines very susceptible to leakage, and are a bugger to route.
-Any headwind and the underpowered trucks lose any hope of keeping up with the rest of the convoy.
-Fuel tanks were susceptible to collecting water, and the operators would not drain the bottom of the tanks regularly (read never) resulting in frozen fuel lines in cold weather.
-Did we mention the brakes squeel like a pig being slaughtered?
-Injector pumps were a bugger to do. They were a second line job, but the supply system does not let second line units hold stock. First line units can hold stock, but they are not supposed to change the pump.
-If drivers ran the hose through the cab after the ex to clean it, the electronic boxes located under the cover of the doghouse would act up until the truck dried out. This normally effected the engine and the turn signals.

I could go on and on, but I am tired now.

[Robert Bergeron]

My dear friends. For our collective knowledge, are there interesting features for this truck? How about the spare tire setup? The auxiliary engine heater? Etc...just trying to be fair to the animal. Robert

[rob love]

Are you serious Robert....the spare tire carrier?

Ah yes, the spare tire carrier. Innovative it was.......it was spring loaded to balance out the weight of the tire. Only problem was that if you changed the tire, and did not install the old one on the carrier (for instance you were going to roll it over to maintenance to get it fixed) the carrier would shoot up like a Roman Ballista. Of course, the release lever was towards the bottom of the whole contraption, so your face would be right in the trajectory path. One guy lost an eye during the flood fighting of 97 here in Manitoba...not sure if there were others.

There was of course a yellow bilingual decal warning of the danger of the device located nearby, but these would normally be subdued with camstick for field use. Besides, you just finished changin a tire.....you were just finishing a workout, not reading the sides of trucks.

Within a year or two of that event, there was a modification kit to install a damper shock which would slow the travel of the arm.

The newest version of the engine heater seems to be a lot more effective. The early heaters had a plastic pulley and small belt that were especially prone to failure.

It was nice that they went to a hot hot water type heater for the back of the boxes. They are much more reliable and simple than the fuel fired heaters located in the back of the 5/4 tons. So I'll give the truck that much.

The other positive was the diff lock. That helped the cross country performance and would compensate for the lack of power.

[Bruce Parker (RIP)]

My 'favorite' problems after converting from M135's were:

The spare tire assembly that, while it did allow for a small framed person to lower and raise the spare, it did so for only for about two months until the mechanisms rusted shut.

The ether cylinder for cold starting. It held enough ether for about two starts but was hard fastened and plumbed to the firewall meaning you couldn't easily replace it even if you had a spare cylinder.

[rob love]

Bruce
We are now talking about the MLVW I presume?

The only real problem we had with the spare tire holder here was that the little rivet on the end of the bar woudl shear off, and of course at the worst possible time. It never happened to me mind you. With a little bit of thought, it wasn't bad to slip the tire up onto the carrier.

I have started the MLVW with only that ether bottle right down to below -20. The problem was that while the machine would be warming up at a barely running engine speed, we humans would run back into the building. 15 minutes later, when we woudl come back out, the truck would be screaming away at max RPM.

The bottle was held in with one clamp, which required a 7/16 wrench if I recall to replace it.

Far too often the bottle was either not there or disconnected. Wel meaning mechanics would disconnect them in the belief that operators woudl hit the ether button to "boost" the trucks at high speed, like something out of mad max. Of course, what they did not know was that the power to the bottle switch came off the starter circuit. Unless the starter was engaged, the switch did nothing.

The mechanics would also disconnect the micro brake for some reason, in the belief the operators woudl use them as a park brake. While they were no good for long term parking, they were good for winching operations. But as soon as the system lost 1 to 3 drops of fluid while engaged, the brakes would start to slip.

I like the MLVW....rugged and simple. They will be 35 to 38 years old by the time they are replaced.

[maple_leaf_eh]

One positive of the LSVW is the vinyl tarp. I got one that was going to scrap and it fits perfectly over my M151A2 in the driveway between drives.

I seem to remember the seats in the LS weren't that bad.

The hood is fibreglass so it isn't very heavy to lift and lower.

[rob love]

Originally Posted by maple_leaf_eh

One positive of the LSVW is the vinyl tarp. I got one that was going to scrap and it fits perfectly over my M151A2 in the driveway between drives.

I seem to remember the seats in the LS weren't that bad.

The hood is fibreglass so it isn't very heavy to lift and lower.

The troops far preferred the comfort of the 5/4 ton, both for heat and the seats. And you didn't get goosed by a handbrake handle every time you got in and out of the truck.

[Scott Bentley]

Originally Posted by rob love

The troops far preferred the comfort of the 5/4 ton, both for heat and the seats. And you didn't get goosed by a handbrake handle every time you got in and out of the truck.

I especially loved the lack of roll-up windows. Between that and the vinyl seats, it made long road moves during the summer so enjoyable on the backside.

Then there were the up-armoured versions. Although it had A/C, everything else was pushed to the edge of its envelope, engine, brakes, suspension. Just terrible.

[sapper740]

Yours truly claims the LSVW world record speed attained on the flat. During MARCOT 98 at Stephenville NFLD I had an opportunity to see how fast one of those clunkers would go. I started at the far eastern end of runway 09/27 which is over 11,000 ft. long. I was able to get the truck up to 105km/hr (as shown on the speedometer) which is the fastest an LSVW has done without a push, tail-wind, or slope.
I'm still awaiting my commemorative plaque for the event!

CHIMO!

Derek H.

[Yeo.NT]

Originally Posted by sapper740

Yours truly claims the LSVW world record speed attained on the flat. During MARCOT 98 at Stephenville NFLD I had an opportunity to see how fast one of those clunkers would go. I started at the far eastern end of runway 09/27 which is over 11,000 ft. long. I was able to get the truck up to 105km/hr (as shown on the speedometer) which is the fastest an LSVW has done without a push, tail-wind, or slope.
I'm still awaiting my commemorative plaque for the event!

CHIMO!

Derek H.

Sorry to crush your dreams had my MRT going 110km/h with a 10kw Gen in the trailer

Arte Et Marte