Commonwealth War Graves

[Steve Guthrie]

Hi there

Interesting fact off of the CWGC website. With all the tension over Iraq, the CWGC are concerned about their cemetarys in that country.

There are 54, 000(!) war graves there, almost all from WWI battles with the Ottoman Turks in what was then Mesopotamia.

Fifty-four thousand boys a long way from home.

Steve

[Bill Alexander]

Hello Steve,
At least 4 Canadian service personnel are buried or commemorated in Iraq. Three at Basra (two buried and one commemorated) and one at Mosul. Unfortunately, I can't access the details. The names aren't listed in the source which indicated that Canadian service personnel are buried there.

[Garry Shipton (RIP)]

Saw a site a few weeks back on the graves in Iraq including the Canadians as part of the nationalities buried there.If memory serves me right they were RCAF personnel detached to RAF squadrons.Now if I can only remember where I saw it.It had to do with WW2 aircraft.In the meantime,trying to jog the memory.

[Bob Potter]

If you go to the Commonwealth War Graves Commission website and then to the "News" page, you will find an article about the main memorial at the Etaples Cemetery being defaced by idiots.

The next time Germany invades France, I vote we let the Germans keep it.

Bob

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Con...l=968705899037

Despite my anti-war stance, I am even more anti-desecration. Those who perpetuated this crime should be dealt with very harshly.

Bob....I'm not sure where your France/Germany comment is coming from because this is the work of disrespectful kids, not nations, and I can assure you that disrespectful kids exist wherever kids are.

[Bob Potter]

As a teacher, I know all about disrespectful kids. The "veterans" of my European history course were properly incensed when I shared the Etaples story with them, as they were properly incensed when I shared the story about the French wanted to relocate Commonwealth cemeteries to expand the Paris airport.

I just get "brassed off" when people don't know their history and don't teach it to their kids. Nations sometimes are not much better than their children.

Bob

Here's something I just read that is just as disgusting....I'd post the link, but it was a the pop-up window.


Prank Caller Tells Family Army Son Died

At a time when military families are so on edge with worry and concern for their loved ones serving in the war with Iraq, a prank telephone caller in Flagstaff, Arizona devastated the family of an Army soldier when he falsely told them their son was dead. Hours after a photograph of Danny Hogg, the father of 22-year-old soldier Wayne Hogg, was published in the Arizona Daily Sun at a Support the Troops rally, a man called the Hogg home and told them their son had died in Iraq. The caller said "we need to let you know Wayne died two days ago," reports The Associated Press.



The report was false, but the news was horrendous for the family to hear. It took them a full day to get confirmation from the Army that Wayne was alive and well in Iraq. "The (caller) did what he intended to do; he caused grief from Flagstaff to Iraq," Danny told AP.


When anyone in the military is killed, the notification process is the same for the Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines, and Coast Guard. The next-of-kin is notified in person. What made the prank call so believable to the Hogg family is that they had not heard from Wayne since January. Once the Army confirmed to the Hoggs that Wayne was fine, they arranged for a phone call.

I'm blown away by the cruel acts of that `prank caller'. Ihope like h2ll they catch the SOB who made that call and caused so much grief for that soldiers family.

That prank caller has crossed the line from prank into illegal and immoral cruelty behavior to harrass and instill fear and grief. That's one phone call he/she will be `paying for'in one way or another for the rest of their life because their identity will be found out and publicized, I'm sure, and society is not merciful no matter what the age of the perpetrator.

Carman

[Mark W. Tonner]

France's reaction:

Chirac apologises for desecration

President Jacques Chirac apologised to the Queen for the desecration of a British war cemetery on the Channel coast. He said saying the French had not forgotten the debt they owe British soldiers who died liberating their country. In a letter to the Queen, Chirac described the scrawling of anti-war graffiti on monuments at a First World War cemetery in Etaples, near Calais, as "inadmissible and shameful."

From the Commonwealth War Graves Commission site:

The Commonwealth War Graves Commission shares the disgust and dismay expressed by many people at the recent act of vandalism in Etaples Military Cemetery, France, in protest at the war in Iraq. The cemetery, in which there are over 11,000 burials, mainly First World and many of nationalities other than British, is a place of commemoration ill fitted to such protests.

The paint on one of the central features in the cemetery was quickly removed by the Commission's staff and the French authorities, who share the Commission's shock and concern, have launched an immediate investigation into the incident

What the idiots did:

[Bob Moseley (RIP)]

Not only are they idiots, they are also un-educated. They could'nt even get the Swastika the correct way round.

Bob

[Alex Blair (RIP)]

Bob

I think the desacraters got it right and the Nazi's inverted the swaztika...
The swaztika has been around for t'ousands of years..see the pattern on this plate..an old Native American symbol...
http://www.hecol.ualberta.ca/ritual_...o1humwell.html
As a matter of fact it was a Japanese symbol..

Quote.....
"This is the Shorinji Kempo manji, or symbol; it is also the Japanese symbol for a Buddhist temple. At first sight, the manji can be easily mistaken for the Nazi swaztika. However, the manji represents the opposites of the world: heaven and earth, good and evil, life and death. This contrasts with the misrepresented use of the manji (in reverse form with the brackets facing the opposite way) by Adolph Hitler during World War II; he inverted the manji's design in an attempt to use its meaning for his own selfish reasons: power and greed.

See Symbol here

http://www.csuohio.edu/history/shiga96/pages/kempo.html

Let's stick to CMP's...
(As for the weather in Oz....winter is coming and you are going to be shakin' in you boots at + 10C.....)
Poor bast*rds...
Woke up this AM to the prospect of freezing rain...30 CM of snow and 60 KM gusts..and -10C....
Think I'll zip out in the back fourty,find a sleeping polar bear and kick it in the sack....
It's Saturday and I need my inspiration for my daily run....

[Bob Moseley (RIP)]

Hi Alex

I humbly beg to differ and question your reference on the swastika. For some obscure reason a while ago I researched the swastika on the net and found numerous sites. The majority of the sites stated that the swastika legs were clockwise apart from either the Hindu or Bhudist one which was anti-clockwise. The only site mentioning the bastardisation of the swastika by Hitler was the one you quoted. It is an interesting subject but one not many visit due to the Nazi connotations. It was always held as a symbol of good luck or fortune apart from the one version I mentioned earlier with the eastern religions. If I wasn't so lazy I'd look to see which one it was, but if you are interested, surf the net and look at all the sites.

Anyway I agree, lets stick to CMPs. And as for the weather - eat your heart out.

By the way, did you see my post requesting info on a Coventry Climax powered Genset. You are attributed to possessing every manual known to mankind, do you have this one?

Bob

[gcrossley]

Here are the details of the 4 Canadians commemorated or buried in Iraq War Cemeteries.

In addition to these, there are 35 others who were members of British Forces, but list at least one of their Next-of-kin in Canada.

BASRA MEMORIAL

ALLISON, Lieutenant, JOHN OLIVER, M C, Canadian Infantry (Western Ontario Regt.) seconded to 30 Sqdn. Royal Air Force. 15th May 1918. Age 27. Son of Joseph Allison, of Maxwell, Ontario. Panel 43

BASRA WAR CEMETERY

HARBOTTLE, Warrant Officer Class II (Pilot), RONALD WINFRED, R/91806. Royal Canadian Air Force. 13th March 1943. Age 27. Son of W. A. Harbottle and Jessie Harbottle, of Dummer, Saskatchewan, Canada; husband of Irene Gertrude Harbottle (nee Hubbard), of Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada. 7.R.12.

POLLOCK, Flying Officer (Pilot), BRUCE LEROY PARKINSON, J/12059. Royal Canadian Air Force. 17th June 1943. Age 30. Son of James Alexander and Martha Parkinson Pollock, of St. Thomas, Ontario, Canada. B.Sc. 8.L.6.

MOSUL WAR CEMETERY

WHITTINGHAM, Warrant Officer (W.Op./Air Gnr.), WILLIAM ERNEST, R/77366. 52 (R.A.F.) Sqdn. Royal Canadian Air Force. 2nd November 1942. 1.C.4


Gord Crossley

[Dwight Pruitt]

I found an interesting article on Tom Morgan's fantastic Hellfire Corner site. The CWGC Cemetery at Kut had been neglected and had some stones broken. The USMC has undertaken to clean it up and repair the stones.

http://www.fylde.demon.co.uk/news.htm

[Steve Guthrie]

Thank you, Leathernecks!

Steve

[Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)]

Originally posted by Dwight Pruitt
The CWGC Cemetery at Kut had been neglected and had some stones broken. The USMC has undertaken to clean it up and repair the stones.

http://www.fylde.demon.co.uk/news.htm

The next jarhead I meet drinks for free.

[gcrossley]

Sad news, the recently restored cemetery at Kut was vandalized. See the link below for the story.

http://www.opinion.telegraph.co.uk/n.../20/wirq20.xml

Originally posted by gcrossley
Sad news, the recently restored cemetery at Kut was vandalized. See the link below for the story.

http://www.opinion.telegraph.co.uk/n.../20/wirq20.xml

It sure would be nice to live in a world without these behaviors. Damn. C

[Dwight Pruitt]

This was the saddest thing of all to read:

"Lt Col Zangas admitted that the restoration should not have been given so much import so soon after the war. "It sent out the wrong message, renovating a Christian cemetery when you're occupying a Muslim country," he said"

I'm all for winning the peace in Iraq, but the good Colonel misses the point. This wasn't a "Christian" cemetery as much it was one for fallen warriors. Shame.

[Bob Potter]

I REALLY want to believe that this act of vandalism was perpetrated by Saddam's followers like the Baath Party people who incited peasants who are easily led. Unless all that weeping and wailing at that archaeological site where the secret police buried their victims was all done for the benefit of Western media, these people have the same respect for the dead as Westerners do. I hope.

Also consider this. Aren't there memorials for Muslim members of Indian Army units in these CWG Cemeteries in Iraq? In the ones in Italy there are. Did the Iraqi vandals attack and desecrate these Muslim monuments?

The Colonel should not apologize, nor does he have to apologize. These same vandals could have used the energy they expended to vandalize to restore their own water, sewer, and security. We may have a certain responsibility but the natives have much to do on their own.

Bob

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

Excuse my ignorance but we saw signs on the motorway/Autoroute from Boulogne to Calais [near Coquelles] for the Canadian Military Cemetary...was this a Great War one?
After driving through Calais we went into Dunkirk, and then into Belgium. Thoughts of Operation Dynamo and "Flanders Fields" from the previous war flooded. I have to say that Dunquerque was a very friendly place towards us Brits, and the local petrol station owner mourned the Franc as we did. Can't get used to the dreaded Euro...Vive le Franc!