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  #1  
Old 24-02-04, 21:04
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Philliphastings Philliphastings is offline
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Default 'Carrier, 2Pdr, Anti-Tank'

Some years back I was very fortunate in being able to locate and acquire the hull of Australian 2 Pdr Anti Tank Carrier No 6146, on a nearby farm in Rural NSW. (about the same time I also tracked down and a cquired a near mint Australian 'Rhino' Armoured car running chassis)

The carrier turned out to be the actual vehicle used to illustrate the technical manuals for this unique Aussie AFV. Subsequently the vehicle passed partly-restored to another collector when I moved off the farm and I have lost track of it.

Whilst researching the vehicle and seeking parts I was given a list by Col Anderson of other 2Pdr Carriers known to have been saved from the scrappers which appears below in no particular order:

6146 - Recovered for restoration by Phill Hastings at Holbrook NSW in 1997 - sold on in 1999
6025 - Recovered by Col Anderson Sold to Barry Ryan of Dubbo NSW
6019 - Recovered by Col Anderson
6027 - Recovered by Col Anderson
6191 - Recovered by Col Anderson - sold to Rod Keyes QLD
6014 - Last seen Uptons yard, Corowa NSW 1975
6150 - Still existed in Tocumwal NSW in 1975
6100 - Recovered by Tim Vibert and sold to Sydney collector 1975
**** - Wreck seen at Tocumwal 1979
**** - Wreck seen at Tocumwal 1979
**** - existed at Merbein Vic - sold 1992
**** - Existed at Pine Lodge Vic
**** - Existed strathbogie Vic
**** - On display - Puckapunyal Tank Museum
**** - On charge - Bandiana Army Museum
**** - In collection of Martin Keen
**** - heavily stripped and rusted hull in Albury NSW machinery yard
**** - Under restoration near Sydney (may be 6100)

I'm sure there are a few more out there still to be found - I thought someone may be able to put this information to good use after all this time. I had been looking for the above list in my files since 1999!

Cheers

Phill Hastings
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  #2  
Old 25-02-04, 04:06
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Default 6146 when new

Left side view
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  #3  
Old 25-02-04, 04:08
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Default 6146 when new

Right side view
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  #4  
Old 25-02-04, 04:10
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Default 6146 when new

Rear right 3/4 view
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  #5  
Old 25-02-04, 09:51
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Default THAT'S THE ONE !

Yep Tony, that's her in all her former glory.

By the time I tracked it down 6146 had been extensively stripped out and dismantled. The original engine was long gone, no sign of armament remained even part of the track was lost and most internal fittings discarded. What remained though was very easily restorable and some of the original paintwork and numbers remained clearly visible.

The farmer had begun to convert it into a tracked utility for firewood carting and had painted a large amount of red lead paint over the hull but then lost interest and left it in a shed to house spiders in a dark dingy shed.

The day I went to inspect it I almost dropped the torch when I read the serial number 6146 on the driver's side of the hull and of course bought it in the spot.

I originally wanted to pass 6146 on to the Australian War Memorial but at the time they were actually in the process of selling off a number of vehicles, Adelaide Military Vehicles Museum made overtures but by that time it was betrothed to another collector who already had a 2 Pounder gun and other parts lined up.

Thanks for sending the pics Tony. They brought back memories of happy hunting days. I used to have some copies myself. Hopefully this vehicle will one day reappear in similar condition for all to enjoy...

Phill Hastings
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  #6  
Old 25-02-04, 10:00
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Default 2 pounder carrier

Mr. Hastings,
A major collector on the West coast of the United States acquired one of these carriers a few years ago. It is fully restored, and was shown at the MVPA International Convention in San Jose, California. The owners name is Jacques Littlefield. He actually has over 150 armoured vehicles in his collection.
Rod Shaver
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  #7  
Old 25-02-04, 10:29
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Default Jacques 2 PDR Carrier

Ah yes, I have seen Jacques Littlefield's 2 PDR Carrier - a nice one and think it may have come via well known AFV dealer James Swann here in Australia.

I am a big fan of Jacques collection and have several books which feature his vehicles in colour. If I had the financial means I would have set up a similar collection here in Australia.

I did at one time have a large collection of softskins, most unrestored and the Centurion and 2 PDR Carrier. About once a year I would hold an open day and invite vintage car and military vehicle club members over for a 'play' and display with the vehicles. Really enjoyable those days were.

Phill Hastings
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  #8  
Old 25-02-04, 11:11
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Default Re: Jacques 2 PDR Carrier

Quote:
Originally posted by Philliphastings
Ah yes, I have seen Jacques Littlefield's 2 PDR Carrier - a nice one and think it may have come via well known AFV dealer James Swann here in Australia.
Click on the thumbnail to see a full-size picture of Jacques' 2-pdr carrier:

Source: http://www.battlefront.com/resources...SA/misc_armor/
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  #9  
Old 25-02-04, 11:46
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Default Ah 'Tis a thing of beauty !

I think it looks terrific - despite the erroneous serial number on the side...

There is a well publicised contemporary photograph showing American Military brass inspecting several Australian Pattern AFV's in Melbourne. Judging by the look on their faces I get the feeling they were less than impressed with the little AT carriers - but then they were used to General Grants and stuarts etc (sorry I don't have the means to link to this site)

Strange how the human mind works. It was only while looking at this picture just now that I remembered I still have a good spare aircleaner assembly off 6146, and new headlight glasses, and a stowage box or two....and - and ...

Thanks for the pic and link Hanno

Phill Hastings
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  #10  
Old 25-02-04, 11:47
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Default 2 PDR Carrier...

- and a wrench for the flathead V8 engine...

Phill Hastings
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  #11  
Old 25-02-04, 23:01
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Default Re: Ah 'Tis a thing of beauty !

Quote:
Originally posted by Philliphastings


There is a well publicised contemporary photograph showing American Military brass inspecting several Australian Pattern AFV's in Melbourne. Judging by the look on their faces I get the feeling they were less than impressed with the little AT carriers - but then they were used to General Grants and stuarts etc (sorry I don't have the means to link to this site)
Phill;

Is this perhaps the photo you refer to:

Cheers
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  #12  
Old 25-02-04, 23:15
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Default That's it !

- Also found it on page 38 of Australian Military Equipment Profiles Vol 2.

Check out captain happy behind the Bren gun. If looks could seal the fate of a vehicle type then all 2Pdr carriers would have been scrapped immediately after Captain Happy submitted his inspection report !

Call me sentimental but the only thing I didn't like about 6146 was the next-to-the-left-shoulder gear change (and the lack of legroom for the driver)

Cheers

Phill Hastings

PS - will have to try to dig up a pic of 6146 as found some time and post it here...- though it did appear in wheels and tracks some years back.
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  #13  
Old 25-02-04, 23:44
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Post Re: 2 PDR Carrier...

Not 6146, just another photo of an Australian 2 pdr Anti-Tank Carrier:

Cheers
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  #14  
Old 25-02-04, 23:56
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Default Nostalgia

Hello Mark,

Yes although I realise the above photo was of a different vehicle, it was still a good excuse to take a stroll misty eyed, down memory lane...

Thanks

Phill Hastings
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  #15  
Old 25-02-04, 23:59
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Thumbs up Re: Nostalgia

Quote:
Originally posted by Philliphastings
Yes although I realise the above photo was of a different vehicle, it was still a good excuse to take a stroll misty eyed, down memory lane...
Cheers
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  #16  
Old 26-02-04, 01:20
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Default Put to shame!

And what were we playing at, the British and Canadians? What an awful attempt at a low profile anti-tank carrier we produced! Not much thought went into that one. Oh here's a good idea chaps, a good ol' carrier with our fabby gun on top, that'll scare them off what!

Well done to the Oz lot for a machine that really looks the part. Incidently I have a firing report for tank attack carrier. It is awesome reading and if I remember it correctly the results were out of fifteen rounds fired whilst on the move 11 hit their target at the optimum distance. Some gunner, and on open sights!!

Nigel
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  #17  
Old 26-02-04, 10:55
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Default And whats more ...

I would have to check my sources but I believe those impressive scores were made by Volunteer Defence Corps gunners as well - theywere the least trained and least equipped arm of Australia's Military machine during the war years !

Well done lads...

Phill Hastings
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  #18  
Old 26-02-04, 10:58
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Default Re: Put to shame!

Quote:
Originally posted by Nigel
Oh here's a good idea chaps, a good ol' carrier with our fabby gun on top, that'll scare them off what!
Quite so, my late relative had the priviledge of firing Stuart 2pdrs against Erwin's Panzer 4s, the squadron commander had the crews on a fizzer for waste of ammo if observed to shoot at more than 400yds he told me.

Accurate maybe, but the rounds flying off at a tangent to Krupp Stahl looked quite pretty he said.

Of course those Canadians came up with the marriage of the stunningly potent 3.7 on a Ram chassis which the War Dept took one look at and could see no possible earthly use for it since no one would make a tank thicker or bigger than we had, would they? Just not cricket; blinkers on, think small, rose-tinted specs at the ready.

R.
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  #19  
Old 26-02-04, 16:14
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Post Re: Re: Put to shame!

Quote:
Originally posted by FV623
Of course those Canadians came up with the marriage of the stunningly potent 3.7 on a Ram chassis which the War Dept took one look at and could see no possible earthly use for it since no one would make a tank thicker or bigger than we had, would they? Just not cricket; blinkers on, think small, rose-tinted specs at the ready.
FV623;

RAM QF 3.7in SP AA: Attempt in late 1942 to produce a self-propelled mount for the 3.7in AA gun - various modifications (including shield) made during trails - project abandoned after test
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  #20  
Old 27-02-04, 00:37
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Default Re: Re: Re: Put to shame!

Quote:
Originally posted by Mark W. Tonner
FV623;

RAM QF 3.7in SP AA: Attempt in late 1942 to produce a self-propelled mount for the 3.7in AA gun - various modifications (including shield) made during trails - project abandoned after test
Yes. . . . . . .What might have been but for the blinkered attitude of the WD; our very own 88, albeit 94mm and highly mobile at an instant. Would have been very handy indeed.

R.
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  #21  
Old 18-12-05, 11:14
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Default Re: 6146 when new

6146 has changed hands again (still missing 1 aircleaner ):
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Last edited by Tony Smith; 18-12-05 at 11:24.
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  #22  
Old 18-12-05, 23:05
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Default Ram 3.7 inch SP

The Ram 3.7 inch SP project was terminated in June 1943 because it proved unsuitable in an anti-aircraft role (firing platform too cramped, only able to engage targets over a 90o arc, and unstable in action. It performed very well in a direct fire role, but its high silhouette and lack of protection were considered liabilities. It was suggested that a 17-pounder or 3.7 inch AA gun mounted on the Sexton chassis would be a better solution, but alas, aside from some paper studies, this was not followed up.

In early 1943 Canada did design a really low profile 6 pounder SP on a shortened UC chassis. It was just over 4 feet (1.3M) high. The WO turned it down, as was too wide to fit in a Horsa glider, they also deemed unsuitable for use in combined operations as it could only ford up to 30 inches. The 2 man crew was also considered insufficient. None to my knowlege were built.
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  #23  
Old 19-12-05, 06:58
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Default Jacques Littlefield Carrier

Hi All
Haven't seen this thread before. Does anyone know the hull number of this Carrier and any contact details. Be useful for my Carrier Database.
Thanks Bob
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  #24  
Old 20-12-05, 15:01
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Default Re: Re: Jacques 2 PDR Carrier

Quote:
Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra
Click on the thumbnail to see a full-size picture of Jacques' 2-pdr carrier:
Source: http://www.battlefront.com/resources...SA/misc_armor/
Hanno's link seems to be no longer operating, so here's an alternative page:
http://svsm.org/gallery/2pdrcarrier
Note that the serial number of this carrier is NOT 4086 as pictured.
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  #25  
Old 21-12-05, 12:23
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Default Re:Re: Re: Jacques 2 PDR Carrier

Thanks Tony
Have sent the appropriate Email.
Bob
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