CF LSVW photo reference gallery

[Robin Craig]

These are all in service images of mine.

the first two show the chassis cabs arriving from the Western Star factory in BC by rail at the Walkley Road rail yards in 1994. They were destined to be driven a few kilometres to DEW Engineering where the SEV bodies would be installed after they had been refurbed and upgraded as needed by CORCAN first and then DEW.

The sharp eyed among you will notice the MRT variant as the fourth one in line on the flat cars.

The third image shows a comms SEV van body installed. Note these all had been originally fitted to the 5/4 ton vehicles that they replaced. I dont know if any knew bodies were ever made.

The mast fitment and the folding bumper / brush guard were interesting.

R

[Robin Craig]

The vehicles continued to arrive in dribs and drabs on into the winter of Feb 1995. Some of the winter unloads were accompanied by vast amounts of ether being used to try to get them going in the cold with very cold batteries.

Knowing what I knew then I was horrified and today if one of my employees started a vehicle that way he would be fired in a heart beat. The start ups were violent and I am convinced not a good proceedure.

Anyway, here are 99141 99127 99050 and second shot is 99127 which although has an open cargo body on it was to receive a SEV unit at DEW.

By the time 99911 and 99912 were snapped in July 1995 it was a bit wrmer but starting problems still were common.

Even though some were still arriving some already issued vehicles were in service and again passing through Walkley Rail yard again on a train but in service seen here towing the old 5/4 ton trailer 44133. Note how the old trailer wheels would be a problem now if a flat developed as the towing vehicle doesnt have the same wheel and tyre pattern.

[Robin Craig]

One of the advantages of having lived in the Ottawa area was the variety of places that vehicles could be found if you looked hard enough. The open base policy meant many a moment of free time was spent swanning around the usual haunts when events were on.

One such quiet event happened up at was now a vacant hangar at CFB Uplands.

97613 was being shown off all bright and clean in its armoured form. As far as I know the LSVW was never envisaged to be anything more than an SMP truck and adding this weight was a serious compromise and the lack of all around performance was to be expected. Note that the brush bar has been removed.

This conversion was done at the DEW facility in Ottawa and with their armour partners. How many were made I don't know.

[Scott Bentley]

Originally Posted by Robin Craig

One of the advantages of having lived in the Ottawa area was the variety of places that vehicles could be found if you looked hard enough. The open base policy meant many a moment of free time was spent swanning around the usual haunts when events were on.

One such quiet event happened up at was now a vacant hangar at CFB Uplands.

97613 was being shown off all bright and clean in its armoured form. As far as I know the LSVW was never envisaged to be anything more than an SMP truck and adding this weight was a serious compromise and the lack of all around performance was to be expected. Note that the brush bar has been removed.

This conversion was done at the DEW facility in Ottawa and with their armour partners. How many were made I don't know.

My Squadron had one of these in Kabul. What a terrible truck and what a stupid idea. Its right up there with the desert "blast boots" with the v sole.

Horrible peripheral visibility (in an asymmetric conflict where visibility is your friend), a charging system that was inadequate for running an air conditioner, and an armour package designed for direct fire/small arms in a country with predominately an underbody blast threat, (i.e. carcass containment system). The suspension spent most of its time bouncing off of the bump stops trying to keep up with traffic on Violet Route.

This thing gets my vote for the worst vehicle ever to be used by the CAF.

[rob love]

Not sure if Scott is nominating the LSVW as worst vehicle ever in it's armoured kit form, or in all forms. I would nominate it as worst vehicle in all forms.

Re the problem with the trailer spare tires, this dated back to the 5/4 tons replacing the old M37s as well. As a result, spare tire kits were installed on the majority of the M101 trailers, and an appropriate tire (either M101 or the 8 bolt pattern Manacs) were installed on the bracket. We ran the older trailers until almost Y2K, by which time some were nearing 50 years old.

[Scott Bentley]

Originally Posted by rob love

Not sure if Scott is nominating the LSVW as worst vehicle ever in it's armoured kit form, or in all forms. I would nominate it as worst vehicle in all forms.

I never thought that comment through

Its funny reading Robin's comments above about the cold weather starting. When I was the Troop MT Rep, I remember watching the Weather Network every morning to determine if I needed to grab a slave cable on my way out to the yard first thing in the morning. I seem to recall -12c was the magic number. Even better was the fuel fired coolant heater, which when it worked, would most certainly have ran the batteries down to the point of preventing cranking the engine once the coolant was warm enough to start the engine. Like someones sick idea of a practical joke...

[rob love]

IF the coolant heater worked, it was great. It would have the engine toasty warm in 15 minutes or so, and the truck would start. That was way better than cranking and cranking and engine which was never going to start.

But the early heaters were very prone to failure. Apparently the new heaters are better, but my recent experience with the LSVW did not require me to do much outdoor work.

[maple_leaf_eh]

Originally Posted by Scott Bentley

....

This thing gets my vote for the worst vehicle ever to be used by the CAF.

I would echo Scott - the parking brake is off when it is up; the shifter won't move into gear if the RPMs are too high; no Park on the transmission; the fuel tank is effectively empty below half, because of where the fuel pickup is situated; the killer spare tire mount (subsequently changed); and the obligatory preheater run to start in cold weather.

This procurement was written up in Scott Taylor's book Tarnished Brass (?) as an example of how to screw up military procurement - and stiff the troops with political expedient solutions for unsolveable problems for decades.

[Scott Bentley]

Originally Posted by rob love

But the early heaters were very prone to failure

They gave Immersion Heaters a run for their money in the "bang" department

[rob love]

Didn't see a lot of the heaters go bang, but did see a lot of the plastic drive pulleys strip themselves. I used to keep bins of parts dedicated strictly for these heaters in the tool crib.

The lists of LSVW failures is endless.....underpowered, frequently caught fire, fuel problems, electrical problems......even a simple thing like the oil sending unit has not been fixed after 20 years. The sending units develop internal leaks and constantly require replacement. I had word from the LCMM recently that the LSVW divestment program was starting. However, it now appears that with half of the B vehicle fleet being mothballed, that many of the LSVWs may be kept around as a source of spare parts for the remaining trucks.

[Dano McLaren]

Thanks for getting this thread going. I have tried, unsuccessfully to post some additional photos. Will keep trying.

[maple_leaf_eh]

Originally Posted by Robin Craig

...

97613 was being shown off all bright and clean in its armoured form. As far as I know the LSVW was never envisaged to be anything more than an SMP truck and adding this weight was a serious compromise and the lack of all around performance was to be expected. Note that the brush bar has been removed.

...

Just to stir the pot, the SOF community have always needed a wide variety of vehicles. I remember being told of a conversion attempted based on the Little Squeaky Vehicle Wheeled (LSVW). I only heard something was tried, and have no idea what came off or went on. Needless to say, the no-nametag crowd didn't prowl Afghanistan in modified LS's.

[Robin Craig]

Terry,

I have them , somewhere, watch this space

R

[Hans Mulder]

I seem to recall an announcement in 2009 that the LSVW would be completely phased out by end of 2011...


Right...

[Marc Montgomery]

great photos Robin.
curious as to why they were such pigs to start? at -30 my 2000 (very rusted) Ford Windstar starts right up virtually instantly and with a very old battery..why are these so different?

[Robin Craig]

I highly doubt your Windstar is diesel.

Gas relies on igniting a fuel air mixture in a cylinder.

Diesel is a very rapid compression of a fuel air mixture which generates enough heat to cause a controlled detonation, hence the jape of sending the newbie to find the spark plugs on the diesel, there are none.

Usually if, after the second go around, at very cold temps, with very cold batteries, a diesel does not start, then the chances get exponentially lower on each attempt to the point that the battery is pooched. It is the speed of the compression that generates the heat. As the batteries get tired turning the crank through the tar like oil in the sump and trying to compress the fuel air mixture at the same time it is a fairly quick death to the process.

R

[rob love]

Originally Posted by maple_leaf_eh

the shifter won't move into gear if the RPMs are too high; no Park on the transmission;

The shifter movement is a safety feature. Believe it or not, it is not good popping a transmission into gear from neutral at 2000 RPM. As to no park in the transmission, that might be just as well. We had to change enough of these transmissions as it was....no need to add stripped parking pawls to the reasons why. Most big trucks (although the LSVW is by no means a big truck) don't have park in the transmissions.


I have always disliked the Iltis, but compared to the LSVW, the Iltis was a chevrolet. (I will not use the term cadillac to describe an Iltis, no matter how bad the alternative comparison is).

[Marc Montgomery]

Robin- aha, I didnt realize these smallish trucks were diesel.

I wonder how they operate in other northern countries.. Sweden, Norway, and of course Russia? Russia seems to realize they are a nordic country and designs in consequence (it seems at least going by history and you tube ) At least in ground vehicles.

[Robin Craig]

Good question Marc,

Vehicles such as the LSVW have fuel fired heaters which in conjunction with a circulation pump warm the engine to make first time starting reliable in an arctic environment. Unfortunately they were the item that were prone to going bang or just catching fire. The cause of which I am not aware of.

The fuel fired heaters are not new technology.

R

[rob love]

I saw plenty of the IVECO vehicles in service with other nations, and of course in commercial use during my tour of Bosnia. Seems like we may have assembled a poor combination with our trucks. A lot of the problems will have to do with poorly made components, ranging from fuel tanks to transmission coolant lines.

Funny thing about the IVECOs of other nations......the brakes did not sound like a freight train stopping. That is the sure sign that an LSVW is within a km of you.......the unmistakable squeel.

[Ed Storey]

Here is a HLVW and an LSVW that had seen some hard use in Bosnia.

[rob love]

Ed
What year was that photo taken. The LSVW looks like one that was in an incident near our camp.

[Ed Storey]

The image was taken at VK in Sept 2000.

[rob love]

It could be the one. I started to type out the story behind the single vehicle collision, but it did not put the CF in good light so I will simply say it got the driver and co-driver a trip home.

[Robin Craig]

Were both vehicles rebuilt?

Ed, is there any way the watermark can be taken off your picture and a clear copy posted? Im sure you have your reasons for doing it

R

[Ed Storey]

I watermark the images as I got tired of seeing my images used on websites and in other posts without any credit given. The watermark stays as it gives obvious credit to my work.

[Dano McLaren]

Hey troops,

I am trying to post some photos to this thread. I keep getting a fail saying max file size is 122.2kbs. Is that correct. Would like to share. I know I have posted pics before. What am I doing wrong?

[rob love]

Open the photo on your computer, and then shadow your mouse over it. It should show the properties, including how many kbs it is. If it is too large, then hit edit and resize. After resizing it, check the KBs again....you will likely be OK.

[Dano McLaren]

Thanks Rob will give it a try.

[maple_leaf_eh]

Originally Posted by rob love

I saw plenty of the IVECO vehicles in service with other nations, and of course in commercial use during my tour of Bosnia. Seems like we may have assembled a poor combination with our trucks. A lot of the problems will have to do with poorly made components, ranging from fuel tanks to transmission coolant lines.

Funny thing about the IVECOs of other nations......the brakes did not sound like a freight train stopping. That is the sure sign that an LSVW is within a km of you.......the unmistakable squeel.

How about an Italian passenger "LSVW"?