Books photos about executed POWS June 1944

[Regina]

I haven't been here in a while, but I like what you've done to the place.

I have a little more information on the battle of June 8/44. It is from the perspective of a Major with the Regina Rifles, surrounded and fighting (with my uncle) just to the east of the RWR. I've been to these sites where the battles took place and found it amazing what these boys from the prairies were able to do.
One of the other things I read some time ago, stated that Meyer's defence for murdering the Canadians was that a prisoner from the RWR had a notepad in his pocket. In it was written "No Quarter Given" which is a pile of crap according to any of the Normandy Veterans I've spoken to. This battle is also being described by many current historians as the most important battle of the Normandy Campaign. This is where the 12SS was slaughtered by the Canadians when Meyer was trying to drive a wedge in the Corp lines and throw the "Little Fishes back into the sea."

Major G. Brown - Regina Rifles regarding June 8/44.
The first attack on the Reginas positions came in the early hours of 8 June. A battalion of Hitler Youth advancing with three companies up towards Norrey was quickly stopped by artillery and small arms fire. One company bypassed Norrey to the west and reached Cardonville where it dug in near Dog Company's position. With daylight the enemy was subjected to "brisk artillery and mortar fire" at every sign of movement and the German commander Monhke switched his attention to the RWR in Putot-en-Bessin.
The Winnipegs position was endangered by the failure of 69th British Brigade to reach the railway line to the west of Putot. Lt.Col. John Meldrum placed a battery of 17 pounder anti-tank guns to cover this open flank but this did not prevent infantry infiltration. When the 3rd battalion of the 26 Panzer Grenadier Regt. attacked Putot on the afternoon of 8 June they were able to break into the defences and capture the village inflicting heavy loses on the Winnipegs. Brigadier Foster organized a counterattack using the entire divisional artillery to lead the Canscots and Hussars in an all out and successful effort to recapture Putot. The Reginas watched this intense battle know their turn would come.
Quote:
"Then suddenly the Germans launched a very heavy attack on Putot, and their tanks and infantry overran the Winnipeg Rifles. We were stunned by the swiftness of the attacks as were the Winnipegs. Col Matheson had called and explained the situation, saying it seemed likely that the SS Armoured Div had reached the beachhead and would soon carry out further attacks. He also told me the Brigade's reserve battalion, the Canadian Scottish, would counterattack immediately to recapture Putot and restore the defensive line. Those of the Winnipeg Rifles who had survived the onslaught would form the Brigade Reserve."
"My faith in our weaponry was restored and in the 7th Brigade, the Canscots put in a heroic day-light attack. They followed right on the heels of the barrage and swarmed the German positions, firing Sten guns, Bren guns and rifles as they ran. The enemy fought fiercely for the ground they had won only hours before, but were forced to fall back to the rail line on the edge of the village. The Winnipegs and the Canscots had suffered grievous losses. Many died and many were wounded. It had been an awesome, horrible sight and I had watched it as though from a ringside seat."
Major G. Brown finished the war as Lt. Col. G. Brown DSO, MID, NBL

BTW - The Winnipeg Rifles monument on Juno beach doesn't actually sit on the beach they landed on D-Day. It is quite an impressive one but sits on the Regiana Rifles landing beach, across the Seulles river to the east a few hundred yards. Don't know why that is...........

REGINA: Thanks a lot for the post and jumping
in here and adding some more details and history!!! I should just drwmyself a little map or diagram to list who was who and where on what days
(can't write much by hand (notetaking, at all (arthritis) but I can manage more than I used to.-typing is easy for me) Gee...a secretary would be good!

Tis interesting about the location of the
the memorial? Hmmm.

I'm VERY impressed with this MLU Site.
It has to rate an A+ with all the good people, the info input, and how well thought out and `user-friendly' it all is!!!! It's a great `school' all round

I look forward, everyday, to seeing the new posts!
and learning more

Take care.

It appears as though someone is using
my yahoo email address (I live alone, this
is coming from online) Anyways...I've sent in
a report to yahoo about this (this is DIFFERENT from the problem of the `intercepting url with the blank page' Because its been a hassle to get my problem re the url/blank window resolved/fixed...I decided to try `directly confronting/assking the sender' with a return address within the headers. Mailer Daemon sent it back saying the address was shut down due to forgery or fraud... (gee...like using someone elses identity???) Am waiting on a reply from yahoo to see how this resolves. Meanwhile....

GEOFF/MARK/ART ... In case you want to email me off this site, I will private message you my email address that came with my server (and never use because I can't always afford internet, therefore, have the yahoo one so people can reach me even when I don't have internet. I use cybercafes and library in that case) The private messaging in here works great tho unless you want to send me something.

I'm so %@#$^&^***

Hello Everyone:

That video from WarAmps `TAKE NO PRISONERS'
will be here by Friday. I've never seen it
or heard any reviews about it so I don't
know what to expect when I play it. I know
its about the 1944 murders by the SS, but that
is all. Can anyone give me a hint as to its
contents??? I'd really appreciate it.

YAHOO says they `unfortunately can do nothing
to stop people from forging headers' They reccommended some ways to protect myself
a little more,is about all they could do.
If anyone needs the reassurance about me of
seeing the yahoo reply I'll gladly send it to
you.

Take care, Carman

[Mark W. Tonner]

Carman;

Try this website reference the War Amps Video
http://www.amputesdeguerre.ca/video/tnop.html

Cheers

MARK: Thank you for the link. I checked it out and it gave me an idea what to expect.

SILVER CROSS: have been searching to try find
out more about the Silver Cross. Haven't found anything as yet, but certainly was surprised to find many sites listed who SELL other peoples medals??? I don't understand that. I'd hate to think my Uncle or others had medals floating around out there being bought and sold etc. It just strikes me as `off' or `sacriligeous' somehow? Artifacts...are different... I'm obviously notvery informed about many things.

CONDUCT UNBECOMING: a store in town will order one in when I request. $24.95 plus GST for softcover. The shelves were very bare of anything having to do with War History...War talk etc not very `socially acceptable' round here it seems. Funny how theres almost always a `pause' when I ask...Do you have any sections on WW2 or War History?

Take Care

[Regina]

No problem Vets_Dottir, glad I could paint a cloudy picture for you.
The same town/place names in that area of France are used a number of times, which really make it difficult to understand locations. Bretteville is a good example. There are at least 6 Bretteville ________, all different places and all within 10kms. A map that has Bretteville l'Orgueilleuse with lots of detail may help getting a better handle on that battle.
Just by coincidence I received my Autumn 2002 edition of Canadian Military History today. (a little late too?) It's devoted about 20+ pages to Kurt Meyer's interrogation, investigation and prosecution. I'll try to read it soon and if there's more I can add, I'll post it here. I gave it a quick glance and it didn't mention any particular Canadian Regiment.

Good Morning Regina.

I'm interested in reading whatever you find out.

EVERYONE: I really must apologize to people in this thread for my diversion into whining about off topic mail problems because I didn't read my `internet for dummies'I'm no whiz-kid...I'll try harder to stick to appropriate content from now on

Take care...

[Mark W. Tonner]

Carman;

Reference the Silver Cross, try this website.

http://www.vac-acc.gc.ca/general/sub...inmenu/group09

Cheers

P.S. Don't you ever sleep.................

Thanks Mark.

Sleep??? Here and there... can't do nothing
so do this and that and THIS... besides, how the
h*ll can I sleep when you give me nightmares???

[Mark W. Tonner]

Gee, Thanks.........................................

Morning Mark!

You're Welcome............

Just had a power nap...up again.
Checked mail...`automated' one from Manitoba Archives requesting more info (regards my Uncle and my request if there was a Lake/etc named in his memory/honour) Their email said basically that I could expect to wait 6-8 weeks for feedback.

Patience....is a pain.

I looked at the link site for the `Silver Cross'. Someone else had just sent me the link as well
I don't recall seeing a `metal' cross...more like biggish/flat/paper or CLOTH??? with silver(gold? maybe it WAS Silver) I think I may have seen a `STAR' medal??? Maybe I'm : and it really was the CROSS. I'm sure the memory images will come soon. My Uncles face is coming a little clearer...remember...I was less than 10 yrs old last time I saw the photo. Maybe if I start a sketch it will come faster.

Til next time...after my next power nap

[Regina]

I just remembered a letter I had from my uncle, regarding lakes being named for soldiers KIA during WWII. The Saskatchewan govt did the same and unfortunately there is a bay in Northern SK that bares our family name. I believe the Manitoba govt did something similar and had a number or an address that would provide details and a certificate.
I'll dig it up if I can and post it here for you.

Hi

REGINA: I received auto-reply from the Manitoba Archives (research dept?) requesting more
info regards my Uncle/Lake naming etc. I don't
know if I connected to the `correct dept' and
if you find an address maybe it will be more
specifically directed and I'll get quicker than
6 to 8 weeks wait for feedback. Thank you for helping!

TAKE NO PRISONERS: arrived today. I viewed
it and will have to view it again and again
because my mind goes sort of...numb and foggy
in some parts, and thats still how it is at the moment due to mostly live shots of some of
the men alive... and of them not alive.

BUT...I will say that my Uncles name was already on the Audrieu Memorial at the time of the filming of Take No Prisoners because the documentary shows it. There is also a wonderful group photo of the Royal Winnipeg Rifles taken in 1944...I'm assuming it was taken before June 6, and that my Uncle is in that photo...I borrowed a VCR (gave mine to my kid)and unfortunately couldn't take the time to pause and really look at the faces. Next time perhaps.

Thants all for now. C

[Snowtractor]

What you do Carmen is phone your local MLA's office and tell them the story. YOu don't want tax rollbacks, or money ,or to complain about gas prices ,you are just trying to find out where the 'item' named after your uncle is. They will steam roll this with passion as it is all win win in politicians circles. I care for politicians less than average folk, there I said it, but the old timer I go have coffee with phones his MLA on a regualer basis and damn if it doesn't get results fast. Of course their large staff does all the work and the MLA takes the credit, but if it can work in your favour. full steam ahead. SO get some of my hard earned taxes back and give them a call, and take no s*#t.
Sean

Mayors office is closer and he's friendly :-)

Thanks SEAN. It an option too Am
going to wait to see what that other
contact address is first.

MARK: I'm assuming you have a copy
of `Take No Prisoners' or have seen it?

[Mark W. Tonner]

Originally posted by Carman "MARK: I'm assuming you have a copy of 'Take No Prisoners' or have seen it?"

No Carman, I don't have a copy and no I have'nt seen it. You say there is a group shot of the Rifles prior to 6 June, interesting?

Cheers

MARK:I said:..."There is also a wonderful group photo of the Royal Winnipeg Rifles taken in 1944...I'm ASSUMING it was taken before June 6,"

Good point tho...my assumption was based on the documentary being about June 6th and later, and part of the point of it was to honour the men who were murdered...therefore photos shown would probably be ones prior to the murders so that the mens `aliveness before' would be emphasized. Thats how I was thinking but I will try and find out the exact date somehow and let you know.

I also want to find out when the video was mad. I can't find a date for it on the case or the video itself.

I'm no expert and can't have a really `informed' opinion yet, but my objective impression is that Cliff Chadderton covered a lot in this hour long documentary and he's covered a lot of bases from different perspectives, including a lot facts with backup info to support them, and doubts, also with backup info to support them. It feels and presents as simple honest facts, its definately very personalized/humanized...and it hurts big time.

and on that note...I need to get back to sleep...got up for a minute and just had to check mail...your post came just then...so here's a reply already! Mark...I'm surprised you don't have the book and the video???:

[Regina]

Found it.....

Commemorative Name Certificate:
An 11"x15" Commemorative Name Certificate is available upon request to next-of-kin as tangible evidence of the official naming of a feature after their loved one. The initial certificate is provided free of charge to the eldest next-of-kin.

Manitoba Geographical Names Program
Land Information Division
1007 Century Street
Winnipeg, Manitoba
R3H0W4
204-945-1798 (p)
204-945-1365 (Fx)

Let me know if you get anything from these guys.

[Mark W. Tonner]

Originally posted by Carman "I also want to find out when the video was mad. I can't find a date for it on the case or the video itself."

Carman;

If I'm not mistaken, the video was (mad ) made in late 1995.

Cheers

P.S. - go back to sleep

REGINA: Thanks. I'll hang onto that info.
I wonder who wouldbe considered next of kin
if both his parents and all of his siblings are deceased. It would be nice to have a copy of a certificate, but for now will just be very happy to find out the name/place! :-)


MARK:
Carman;
If I'm not mistaken, the video was (mad ) made in
late 1995.
Cheers P.S. - go back to sleep

...I checked the the Waramps site and the Video received awards in 1996...nothing listed prior to that.
I noticed that Conduct Unbecoming was published quite a while after that. I would love to see an updated version of the video with the newest info included.

(mad) Just a little Freudian slip showing
In truth...I have a whole lot of thots and reactions about what I'm learning... that whole scenario about what happened is so hard to swallow, as is how it was and wasn't handled and dealt with by the powers that be. :

Mark...do YOU ever sleep???

[Mark W. Tonner]

Hi Carman;

Orginially posted by Carman "...I checked the the Waramps site and the Video received awards in 1996...nothing listed prior to that."

There is a note on page 1 of the script for the video that mentions September 1995.

Originally Posted by Carman "Mark...do YOU ever sleep???"

Nope ..............................................:eek :

Cheers

HEY...do I get anything special for getting
this conversation to 3 pages even tho I did most of the `talking'

MARK: Thanks for the update date `Sept 1995'for Take No Prisoners!

Sad about my dinosaur...no room to download
anything else like Acrobat Reader...so no PDF etc for me...no scanner...speakers are toast so no
`listen' either One day perhaps.

Tid bit: Mohnke... sounds like it's pronounced `Mong-kay'

[Mark W. Tonner]

Carman;

Does 'Conduct Unbecomimg' mention the deaths of the 19 members of the Royal Winnipeg Rifles that occured on the grounds of the Chateau de Audrieu, on the afternoon of 8 June 1944, between approx. 2 and 5 pm.? I'm curious.

Cheers

Carman;

Does 'Conduct Unbecomimg' mention the deaths of
the 19 members of the Royal Winnipeg Rifles that
occured on the grounds of the Chateau de Audrieu,
on the afternoon of 8 June 1944, between approx. 2
and 5 pm.? I'm curious.
Cheers
========================
Mark:

In chapter 8 of `Conduct Unbecoming’ the chapter is
entitles `THE BREMER MURDERS’ and I think
probably has all the info on those men., the 19 men were
out of the original group of 24, and the
Video Take No Prisoners also covers the murders,
includes timelines, photos, footage of the `spots’.

(I haven’t read it yet-just scanned)
It mentions 24 Canadian and 2 British POWS

Men were first taken in groups of 3 (out of the group of 24)
and interrogated then executed in various spots around the
Chateau, the first 3 men being Major Hodge, LC Austin Fuller,
and Private Frederick Smith.

page 87: A group of specifically `19’ men were murdered at Bremers headquarters at the Chateau.
If I read properly, the 19 men's executions began about 2:30 and ended about 4:30.

That help?

[Mark W. Tonner]

Hi Carman;

Thanks, the timeline is slightly different than the info I have, but it sounds the same. I have photos of some of the 19 along with a diagram of where their bodies were found within the Chateau grounds. Also have a newspaper article dated 03 August 1944, from the Daily Herald about the murders of the 19.

Cheers

You said:
Hi Carman;

Thanks, the timeline is slightly different than the info
I have, but it sounds the same. I have photos of
some of the 19 along with a diagram of where their
bodies were found within the Chateau grounds. Also
have a newspaper article dated 03 August 1944,
from the Daily Herald about the murders of the 19.

-----------
I didn't read thru slowly and carefully but
will when I can...to see if I just missed something about the timeline.

I keep trying to pick out my Uncles face
amongst photos and the video images. A couple
stand out to me but I'm not sure. The photo you
posted in here of the Wpg Rifles landing keeps
pulling me back to it...one face in particular,
the most close-up one...but...its a guessing
game. Nothing yet has `clicked...Thats him!' for me. My Mom was 16 when he died and she was very close to him...when I think of my Uncle, I also think of how deeply his loss affected her (and everyone else too) Mom passed away in 1989 at age 61 suddenly...too soon to know about the Memorial etc.

gotta go...my neighbor just arrived :-)!

C.

Was surfing and found this site and info.
I'll bet this contact would have all
the info about The Soldiers who had Lakes,
etc, named in honour of their memory!

http://geonames.nrcan.gc.ca/info/memb_e.php

Mr. Gerald F. Holm
Provincial Toponymist
Manitoba Geographical Names Program
Manitoba Conservation
1007 Century Street
Winnipeg, Manitoba
R3H 0W4
Fax: (204) 945-1365

[Snowtractor]

http://geonames2.nrcan.gc.ca/cgi-bin...ame_v6?english this should link you to the many smith named features in Manitoba, now you have to search down which is your uncles.
Sean

SEAN: Excellent! Thank you, and I'm
on my way to check out that link now

Take Care,

Carman