Early Carrier engines

[Philliphastings]

Greetings all, for a while I have been scratching my head over what was the correct original engine for the Mk1 Scout.

I recently obtained a reprint manual for the Scout, dated 1939 and it states inj black and white that the water pumps were mounted to the heads on the carrier's engin.

I have located what I believed was my carrier's engine but the early pattern head-mounted water pumps confused me so I haven't brought it home yet.

Does anyone have a definative answer on this ?

I am, at the moment looking at either recovering the early pattern 21 stud block with single row pulleys on the water pumps, or a 21 stud engine which had double row pulleys and pumps in the front of the block, or a traditional (and later spec) 'Mercury" 24 stud engine from an Australian LP carrier.

All of the above will need a comprehensive rebuil but I want to get it as 'right as I can so would appreciate any advice...

Cheers

Phill

[Philliphastings]

Another detail question. According to the 1939 dated manual for the Mk1 Scout Carrier there were only three instruments fitted (as well as the speedometer). Does this mean there was NO extension on the lower vertical face of the instrument panel?

Does anyone know if the early british instrument panel resembled the canadian Mk1 dash?

Cheers

Phill

[kevin powles]

Hi, Phil in a thread for carrier dashers i put up a couple of pictures of the dash you need, I will try and locate it later, have you the Chigwell British carrier manual if so in there is a picture of the dash, if not send us your address and i will send you a copy on cd.

kevin.

[cletrac (RIP)]

The last flatheads with the water pumps in the heads (21 studs) were produced in 1937. Then they came out with the 221 cube version (24 studs) with the pumps in the block and made it until 1942. The Mercury engine (239 cubes) was introduced in 1939 and by 1943 the 221 was dropped. Of course this doesn't mean that the military couldn't have used the 21 stud in the Scout.

[Philliphastings]

Back to the manual and it not only specifies the head-mounted water pumps, but also clearly shows them in the cut away diagram of the engine block.

Being a british Mk1 Scout, which is of the earlier generation as to the Mk1 Universals, I am now convinced that the 21 stud engine was used with the head mounted pumps afterall.

Thanks for the feedback Kevin by the way. I do have that manual but I suspect the very early instruments on mine were slightly different again. My manual makes NO mention of a temperature gauge whatsoever, in fact it doesn't even mention the oil cooler although one is fitted.

Cheers

Phill

[Aidan]

was the wiring all Lucas?, Aidan

[Lynn Eades]

My 1939 instruction book shows a single pulley water pump, but in the text, page 28, it states twin belts go around the water pumps. You cant trust pictures in manuals. There is no mention of a temp guage, but remember they are capillary, not electric.

[Grant Bowker]

Originally Posted by Philliphastings

Back to the manual .......clearly shows them in the cut away diagram of the engine block.

I don't guarantee that Ford did it too, but I am certain that Chevrolet used some of the diagrams from pre-war civilian parts manuals in making CMP parts manuals and some of the photos in the maintenance manuals look extremely similar to those seen in pre-war maintenance manuals. After all, if they were using carry-over parts why retake the photos just to be different?

[Lynn Eades]

I think your dash will have the Temp guage,in the bottom extention, but have no evidence to prove it. The dash assembly I think you are talking about belongs to The Armoured O.P. MkIIIw. It has no temp guage at the bottom, because it is elsewhere on the dash. You have prompted me to start a new thread on dash panels.

[Jordan Baker]

I thought the early early carriers had the temp gauge located somewhere else. Didn't they use a fluid type line instead of the electrical ones.

Ive also got a picture of an early carrier showing its engine. Its the 32-37 Ford Flathead with the water pumps up top and bolted to the front of the block and heads.

[Randy Croke]

Hi Grant:
Need to speak with you regarding some manuals.(I've PM'd but not sure if it was received).
Thanks

[Lynn Eades]

This book, shows a picture of a motor with high water punps, a four bladed fan, a Stromberg type carb,a single fan belt, but in the text of the book details a solex carb, twin belts, and shows twin belts in the lube chart diagrams. The book mentions two types of engines (Ford v8) can someone give us the specs for these two power units?
The date at the top of the book is; 15th Feb. 1939.

[Philliphastings]

I checked over the pic I have of the engine still in a paddock which I have reason to believe may have been the one removed from my carrier in 1947 to put into a farm truck. It has 21 studs, water pumps in the heads and single belt pulleys.

Provided I can still acquire it and bring it home I hope to rebuild this engine to put into the Scout, unless someone can come up with a compelling reason why it would be wrong to use that configuration.

I have an option on a 21 stud engine with standard water pumps or an ex Aust LP2A carrier 24 stud engine assy but I want to try to get it historically correct a smuch as possible.

Cheers

Phill

[Lynn Eades]

Phillip. I have had a look through a couple of books, Engine model number SE-51E-6000. had the water pumps in the heads. the other Engine (79F,6000 CS) had the conventional engine mount type pumps. This is from my book dated feb 39, and does not refer to any universal carriers.
Strictly speaking, these are English Ford. The starter motor, ring gear etc are different from U.S. and Canadian V8s. as you would know those motors ran 18mm plugs, small dia journals, with Babbit bearings. I would run the merc, and maybe put the original stuff away for the future as i collected it.
I believe your carrier ran a fan extention, and definately had a six blade fan, although I dont know if it is the same as the universals.