Colour question: WW2 maple leaf

Bruce Parker (RIP) · #1 07-05-07, 01:48

What colour was the maple leaf painted on WW2 Canadian army formation flashes? Conventional wisdom is 'gold'. Decals would imply a metalic gold; period artwok a mustard yellow. In the early days before decals or adhesive transfers, what colour would have been available for hand painted flashes? I recall a restored WW2 British bike who's owner kept the original marking untouched. I think the maple leaf was 'yellow'. Would there have been metal leaf gold paint available circa 1942/43?

A 1st Corp flash in my garage is awaiting your response...

RHClarke · #2 07-05-07, 02:37

Bruce, I would think that gold may have been used for other purposes...yellow seems to fit the bill.

http://home.cogeco.ca/~gdavidson1/home.html

chris vickery · #3 07-05-07, 15:04

Bruce, I used gold on my first cmp, was kinda flashy and gave it some colour. I don't believe it would have been used originally as common yellow would have been a lot easier to come by.

Do me a favour though when you are painting on your maple leaves...
Use a decent period one like the MLU logo has- the leaf is not supposed to look like a pine tree like may I have seen or anything else for that matter... It makes me wonder what some guys are thinking after spending hundreds of hours on a resto only to disgrace it with incorrect or sloppy markings.

Nick Coaker · #4 07-05-07, 17:18

Hi all,

I have a waterslide transfer with a gold leaf on, which I had enlarged by 50% and made into a stencil by my local printing shop. I've enlarged the shot here, but it still looks ok...

chris vickery · #5 07-05-07, 17:27

Good looking leaf, Nick!

Nick Coaker · #6 07-05-07, 17:36

Thanks Chris,

If I can find the transfer and my camera, I shall apply the two and get a shot in.

Nick Coaker · #7 07-05-07, 17:44

Here we go, transfer is 7 by 5 1/2 inches, leaf 3 1/2 (including stem) by 3 inches. Made by "Slide-Off" Transfers.

cletrac (RIP) · #8 13-05-07, 02:44

Here's a picture of an original yellow maple leaf off my 1943 HUP. If you save the picture and print it it will be actual size. You can use the tape measure to be sure. Just cut out the leaf and you have a stencil.

Bruce Parker (RIP) · #9 13-05-07, 02:58

It shows a yellow leaf. It also seems to show the background colour and looks like one of the diagonally split Canadian home divisions. From your scan it looks like it may be divided from lower left to upper right. Can you confirm and also give your best opinion on what colous were used??

cletrac (RIP) · #10 13-05-07, 04:13

Bruce, the leaf is on the right side and is just painted on the green with no other markings. The truck's paint was faded so they repainted a square patch on each side green before painting the leaf and unit markings. This picture is the unit markings off the left side. It's red over blue with a white 43. What unit would this be? This is an actual size image too.

RHClarke · #11 13-05-07, 05:25

Quote:

Originally posted by cletrac
Bruce... It's red over blue with a white 43. What unit would this be? .

2, 5 or 13 Field Regiment RCA. of the 1st, 2nd or 3rd Inf Div http://home.cogeco.ca/~gdavidson1/home.html - a great source for unit markings identification.

Bruce Parker (RIP) · #12 13-05-07, 15:32

Rob is right, the red over blue is the colour of the RCA (or RA for that matter) unit flash. The number painted on indicates what position a particular regiment holds in the division. In this case, it's the second position for a field artillery regiment within an infantry division. Also as Rob says, if in the 1st Division (red), it was the 2nd Field Regt., if in the 2nd Division (blue), the 5th Field Regt. and likewise the 13th for the 3rd Division (grey).

Unit signs for the 4th and 4th Armoured Divisions and the Corps & Army artillery followed similar patterns but with different numbers on the red/blue flash.

But what of home divisions? I have seen (twice now, with Mr. Popes kind help) divisional signs painted on CMP's. Collin McGreggor has a drawing of 6th, 7th and 8th Division flashes on his web site (diagonal red over blue for the 6th, grey over green for the 7th and maroon over green (or green over maroon?) for the 8th. Oddly, the 8th Division appears 'upside down' in what appears to be a WW2 drawing....or conventioan thinking about what colour goes up is wrong...or the vehicle sign differed from the battledress insginia...or some other explanation...).

I doubt Mr. Popes CMP was overseas and returned, so it is unlikely it belonged to the 2nd, 5th or 13th Field Regiments. But as it has a unit sign, it proves vehicles in Canada were marked with these signs similar to overseas. There is also evidence of 'district' formation flashes worn domestically. Oddly, I've never heard tell of Atlantic or Pacific Command signs.

What I have never seen (as I wind up towards my long winded conclusion) is information on home division unit signs and some indication of when/how/why they were used. Photographs would indicate that vehicles in Canada usually followed a distinctly different marking scheme than overseas, yet this evidence supports that, for a time at least, similar markings were used.

Thoughts?

cletrac (RIP) · #13 13-05-07, 16:22

Bruce, judging by the difference in fading of the main body and the square patch that was repainted before they applied the markings I'd guess there'd be three or four years difference so these unit markings were likely painted on after war's end. I hope this helps.

peter simundson · #14 13-05-07, 16:46

Bruce
My carrier and one truck I had both had a white 6" circle with a black "clubs" playing card in it. This was Militia District 2.
I have two large original packages of tac sign listings. The ones used in England before the invasion differed in a lot of respects from the invasion ones. If you show an interest I might copy them for you.
I also have a complete colour copied set of the or iginal D Day invasion package with an original map. (QOR)
You might also find a set of these on your doorstep.
Peter S

Bruce Parker (RIP) · #15 14-05-07, 01:58

What, you want me to call to 'Sir'.. COURSE I WANT IT!!!

Early Canadian tac signs were different. The unit signs I've painted on my Fox are a white 47 on a black square. This differs from the white 44 on a green over blue flash that was typical post 1944 for the RCD's. It seems to be a legacy from the RCD's days in the 5th Div.

Of note, the 5th Div. originally used a horse shoe insignia on their divisional flash, the 2nd Div. used a "CII" insignia and the 1st Armoured Brigade used the famous big-balled ram. The 7th Division may have used a small "7C" on their divisional sign here in Canada.

Oh, to know so little....