MLU FORUM  

Go Back   MLU FORUM > MILITARY VEHICLES > The Restoration Forum

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 13-10-19, 22:02
Hanno Spoelstra's Avatar
Hanno Spoelstra Hanno Spoelstra is offline
MLU Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 14,401
Default C8A/C15 rear brake: adjustment tool?

All,

I have been trying to adjust the brakes on my C15. I need to take off the brake drums, but the brakes are binding so I need to back off the brake shoes.

But my C15 does not have the adjusting pinion as per the manual, only the slots in the brake backing plate like the front brakes have.

As the rear spring sits close to the brake backing plate, there is no room to use a regular screwdriver to engage the teeth on the adjusting cover of the wheel cylinder.

Who has solved this riddle before? Is there a special tool or a trick?

Thanks in advance!
Hanno
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 13-10-19, 22:08
Hanno Spoelstra's Avatar
Hanno Spoelstra Hanno Spoelstra is offline
MLU Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 14,401
Default Per the manual

To be clear: the rear brakes on my C15 do not have these adjusting pinion shafts:

So I tried using the method for the front brakes, but because of the rear springs, there is no room for the screw driver handle:

Click image for larger version

Name:	756CEA71-BD82-47D6-8741-98141B169341.jpeg
Views:	3
Size:	186.4 KB
ID:	109508 Click image for larger version

Name:	74F65885-40D8-40C0-B5BB-76109A609FA0.jpeg
Views:	4
Size:	166.5 KB
ID:	109509
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 13-10-19, 22:39
Hanno Spoelstra's Avatar
Hanno Spoelstra Hanno Spoelstra is offline
MLU Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 14,401
Default inside the drum

Tried to take a pic of what the inside look like:

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG-2897.jpg
Views:	3
Size:	538.5 KB
ID:	109512
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 13-10-19, 23:36
rob love rob love is offline
carrier mech
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Shilo MB, the armpit of Canada
Posts: 7,517
Default

Get a brake adjusting tool. It has an end like a screwdriver (but wider) and the shaft is bent over about 35°. If the angle is not right for your specific application, then heat the tool and bend it to where it does work.


The tool can usually be had for less than $10.
Attached Images
 
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 14-10-19, 00:37
Phil Waterman Phil Waterman is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Temple, New Hampshire, USA
Posts: 3,927
Default Special tool #27257

Hi Hanno


I agree with Rob you need a brake adjustment spoon tool. I made mine which I will photograph and post. There is an issue of clearance to the springs. The things to remember is which direction you need to move the tool back off each end of the cylinder.


Cheers Phil
__________________
Phil Waterman
`41 C60L Pattern 12
`42 C60S Radio Pattern 13
`45 HUP
http://canadianmilitarypattern.com/
New e-mail Philip@canadianmilitarypattern.com
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 14-10-19, 18:52
Hanno Spoelstra's Avatar
Hanno Spoelstra Hanno Spoelstra is offline
MLU Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 14,401
Default

Thanks, that makes perfect sense but I didn’t know it existed. My ‘65 VW used the same adjustment system, but there a screwdriver did the job.

A Dutch friend has stepped forward, I can borrow his tool.

To be continued!

Hanno
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 14-10-19, 23:46
Phil Waterman Phil Waterman is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Temple, New Hampshire, USA
Posts: 3,927
Default Special tool #27257

Hi Hanno

Here is the little tool made for my HUPs first brake job, 40 years ago.

Click image for larger version

Name:	20191014_173451.jpg
Views:	3
Size:	537.8 KB
ID:	109534Click image for larger version

Name:	20191014_173430.jpg
Views:	3
Size:	438.7 KB
ID:	109535

Cheers Phil
__________________
Phil Waterman
`41 C60L Pattern 12
`42 C60S Radio Pattern 13
`45 HUP
http://canadianmilitarypattern.com/
New e-mail Philip@canadianmilitarypattern.com
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 15-10-19, 00:08
Hanno Spoelstra's Avatar
Hanno Spoelstra Hanno Spoelstra is offline
MLU Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 14,401
Default

Thanks Phil,

Did you make this yourself or is this an off the shelf tool?

Just tried my friends home made tool - sadly that didn’t work...

Hanno
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 15-10-19, 00:31
Jordan Baker's Avatar
Jordan Baker Jordan Baker is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 4,000
Default

Can you fit a drift in the hole then hit that with a mallet? It might get things moving. It sounds like you are due for some replacement parts.
__________________
Jordan Baker
RHLI Museum,
Otter LRC
C15A-Wire3, 1944
Willys MB, 1942
10cwt Canadian trailer
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 15-10-19, 01:45
rob love rob love is offline
carrier mech
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Shilo MB, the armpit of Canada
Posts: 7,517
Default

Did it not work because the angles were not right, or because the adjuster is siezed? If siezed, spray a little penetrating oil at it through the little hole, using the straw that comes with most oil spray cans, and let it sit for for a few days. You will have to clean the drum and shoes afterwards with brakecleaner or alcohol.

If it is the angle of the adjusting tool, then heat the tool with a torch and bend it to the angle you need.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 15-10-19, 13:55
Phil Waterman Phil Waterman is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Temple, New Hampshire, USA
Posts: 3,927
Default Special tool #27257

Hi Hanno

I made it because non of the commercial ones worked. Made from some key stock heated and bent to shape.

Will take a better photo with dimensions and angles.

If you wonder about the Special Tool # 27257 I have a tool drawer where I put all the tools I've made over the years for the CMPs.

Cheers Phil
__________________
Phil Waterman
`41 C60L Pattern 12
`42 C60S Radio Pattern 13
`45 HUP
http://canadianmilitarypattern.com/
New e-mail Philip@canadianmilitarypattern.com
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 15-10-19, 22:14
Hanno Spoelstra's Avatar
Hanno Spoelstra Hanno Spoelstra is offline
MLU Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 14,401
Default Waterman Special CMP Tool Co.

Thanks for all the tips and hints, guys. The tool I borrow was made up from an old screwdriver. Angles were not entirely right and I could not put enough leverage on it.

It does not help the cylinders may be seized. I will be soaking them again in WD40 and copy Phil's tool. I have a 10 mm wide cold chisel, some 25 cm long, which I reckon would fold up nicely along Phil's dimensions - if you could please post the dimensions, Phil?

If the brakes are rusted solid and I cannot back off the brakes, I guess I have no choice but to pull the hub + brake drum with force?

Hanno
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 15-10-19, 23:35
rob love rob love is offline
carrier mech
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Shilo MB, the armpit of Canada
Posts: 7,517
Default

If you are unable to back off the adjusters, and even then are unable to free up the drum from the shoes (I take it you are saying the drum will not turn?) then what you could try is to unbolt the cylinder before pulling the drum. I am not up on the smaller brake systems, but if there are bottom anchors, or anchor pins, I would try and remove them at the back of the backing plate as well.

If the drum will turn, but just not back off, then use a bar or wooden handle (ie pick axe handle) on the wheel studs (protect the threads of course) and turn the drum while pulling the drum away from the hub. Again, whatever you can remove for the anchors may help remove the drum.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 16-10-19, 12:35
Owen Evans Owen Evans is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: North Vancouver, BC
Posts: 307
Default

Hanno,

If you do end up pulling the hubs, you need a kent-moore J870 wrench (attached - the one I have is missing the tommy bar) for the special locking nuts on the C15 rear axle. You can use a punch and hammer if you don't have that wrench, but be careful not to damage the nuts.

From my recent experience, the brake linings on my C15 were pretty much welded to the drum. To confirm what Rob suggests, I ended up 'working backwards' and unbolting the backplate from the axle, unbolting the wheel cylinder and disassembling that way.

Owen.
Attached Thumbnails
kent-moore j870 wrench.jpg   WP_20190120_13_21_36_Rich.jpg   WP_20190120_13_23_31_Rich.jpg   WP_20190120_13_23_43_Rich.jpg   GM473636 rear axle nut.jpg  

__________________
1940 11 Cab C15
1939 DKW KS200
1951 Willys M38
1936 Opel Olympia
MVPA # 39159
MVT # 19406
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 16-10-19, 18:54
Phil Waterman Phil Waterman is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Temple, New Hampshire, USA
Posts: 3,927
Default Special tool #27257

Hi Hanno


Can't find my protractor to measure the angles, but here are the the measurements and the outline of the tool on 1/4" graph paper.


Cheers Phil


Click image for larger version

Name:	20191016_124227.jpg
Views:	7
Size:	289.9 KB
ID:	109562
__________________
Phil Waterman
`41 C60L Pattern 12
`42 C60S Radio Pattern 13
`45 HUP
http://canadianmilitarypattern.com/
New e-mail Philip@canadianmilitarypattern.com
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 16-10-19, 20:07
Lynn Eades Lynn Eades is offline
Bluebell
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Tauranga, New Zealand
Posts: 5,534
Default

Hanno, make sure your hand brake is backed off. Do the cables still function as they should? They need to be backed off to their maximum for your best chance. I would see if there is movement between the inner and outer cable,(both sides) and then dis-connect the cable up top.
__________________
Bluebell

Carrier Armoured O.P. No1 Mk3 W. T84991
Carrier Bren No2.Mk.I. NewZealand Railways. NZR.6.
Dodge WC55. 37mm Gun Motor Carriage M6
Jeep Mb #135668
So many questions....
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 16-10-19, 20:24
Jordan Baker's Avatar
Jordan Baker Jordan Baker is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 4,000
Default

Always wondered what this tool was for. I never really looked it over too closely. Now I know.
Attached Thumbnails
6A85B5E7-2378-44CF-82A0-BC1223FB9D2B.jpg   09B84F70-9CF6-4849-9F29-1687FF5EF545.jpg  
__________________
Jordan Baker
RHLI Museum,
Otter LRC
C15A-Wire3, 1944
Willys MB, 1942
10cwt Canadian trailer
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 16-10-19, 20:26
rob love rob love is offline
carrier mech
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Shilo MB, the armpit of Canada
Posts: 7,517
Default

Another option is to drill some 3/8 holes in the backing plate right behind the brake shoe surfaces. Slip in a small screwdriver and pry the shoes away from the brake drum surface. You may be surprised at how little effort is required to unstick the shoes away from the drum, as opposed to trying to turn the drum.

Of course, that is after checking the park brake cables as Lynn suggests.

You can cover the holes with inspection plugs or weld and grind the holes shut afterwards.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 16-10-19, 22:47
Hanno Spoelstra's Avatar
Hanno Spoelstra Hanno Spoelstra is offline
MLU Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 14,401
Default

Thanks again for all the tips and info

Alex van de Wetering looked up and cross matched the lock nut number 473636 as being the same on a GMC truck. So the GMC tool should work on the C15 lock nut as well.

Will report back later!

Hanno

Click image for larger version

Name:	F73656D8-FA65-4887-8BD4-00624DB49440.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	835.6 KB
ID:	109565 Name:  6C91B3D2-61F0-408A-8BDD-25A1481EFA79.jpeg
Views: 55
Size:  21.3 KB
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 16-10-19, 23:09
Alex van de Wetering Alex van de Wetering is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Hoofddorp, The Netherlands
Posts: 2,670
Default

Quote:
Will report back later!
Please do Hanno! It seems the GMC tool is not as fancy as the one Owen and Jordan showed, but hopefully it does the trick.

Alex
__________________
Chevrolet C8 cab 11 FFW
BSA Folding Bicycle
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
T16 Rear Tool box andrew honychurch The Carrier Forum 0 19-04-12 20:48
Shaft adjustment on rear axle of m38a1 serge Post-war Military Vehicles 2 06-08-10 09:23
AIF Bren gun carrier track adjustment tool Ausmick For Sale Or Wanted 0 13-03-10 22:04
Dummie’s guide to carrier steering and brake adjustment please Big D The Carrier Forum 42 31-05-09 11:19
Rear Tool holders kevin powles The Carrier Forum 4 25-05-09 10:27


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 14:36.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Maple Leaf Up, 2003-2016