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  #1  
Old 27-06-18, 16:52
David Dunlop David Dunlop is offline
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Default WW2 Canadian Wireless Valve Testers

The Canadian Marconi Company was a major player in the design and production of the Wireless Sets No. 9 and 52. Both of these sets made extensive use of British designed valves, to the point where I believe these valves went into production with CMC in Canada.

The tricky bit with these valves is the pin layout in the valve bases. These layouts are not compatible with standard North American valve sockets and therefore, by extension, cannot be tested by any of the North American Valve Testers of the day. But they needed to be tested sooner or later at any number of levels and locations.

So that begs the question. What valve testers would have been used in Canada during and after World War Two that were capable of testing British designed valves? Were British testers imported and modified to 110AC Mains to do this work, or did one or more valve tester manufacturers in North America modify their products to handle the British valves? This latter option would in theory be a fairly straightforward job.

David
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  #2  
Old 28-06-18, 01:37
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Rod Salter Rod Salter is offline
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Default adapt

David,
In the last week, I read and saw photos of an adaptor that plugged into one of the testers sockets an oblong box with 5 or 6 sockets.

I can't remember where in the WWW I was.
I may have saved a pic, maybe in my computer somewhere

They are out there somewhere

rod
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  #3  
Old 28-06-18, 04:07
David Dunlop David Dunlop is offline
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I had not thought of an adapter at all, Rod. It might even prove “universal” to a number of valve testers with a minimum of instructions.

David
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  #4  
Old 28-06-18, 08:53
Bruce MacMillan Bruce MacMillan is offline
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One of the tube testers I have is the TV-7 C/U made in the early 1950s. Still has the Canadian military ID plate. Mounted on the inside lid is an adaptor box for British and other weird tubes (valves). It is possible that British testers like AVO were sent to Canada. They typically operated from 105V to 250V, 50 - 500 Hz.

We still had AVO products in our calibration lab at BC Tel in the 1990s.
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  #5  
Old 28-06-18, 15:23
David Dunlop David Dunlop is offline
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Hello Bruce.

Any chance you could post some photos and specs for that adapter?

I poked around the net a bit last evening and quite a few adapters turned up. Most, however, were single tube types (or sets of same) with little or no information as to what was being adapted. A lot of them also seemed to be for the later postwar miniature style all glass valves to be accommodated in older test equipment.

A few caught my eye as being small square or rectangular metal boxes fitted with four or more sockets and a long cord. The end of the cord had a base plug on it that likely fitted a common socket on most testers. Again, no information to be found on what tubes were being accommodated. Be nice to find an “ XYZ Company, Model 123” that was identified as being for the British tubes to be tested on North American equipment and supporting documentation.

While I think of it, did the massive import of wireless equipment from North America during the war create a similar, reverse, problem in England I wonder?

David
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  #6  
Old 28-06-18, 18:39
Bruce MacMillan Bruce MacMillan is offline
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Here are photos of the adaptor, a schematic and the ID tag. As you can see it's pre Paul Hellyer.
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  #7  
Old 28-06-18, 22:01
Chris Suslowicz Chris Suslowicz is offline
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That adapter is going to cover most of the missing sockets. Left to right:

B9G (EF50 and others) RADAR IF strips, etc. and the WS19 & WS62.
Mazda Octal - most of the receiver and small octal-based transmitter valves.
B5 - T1154 PA valves (PT15), HV rectifiers in CRT displays.
B7 - WS 9 & 52 receiver valves and probably others.

There was an adapter box for the I-177 that added some of the later sockets but not the British or European valves. (MX-949U, I think.)

Chris.
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  #8  
Old 29-06-18, 03:20
David Dunlop David Dunlop is offline
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Thanks so much, Bruce.

I smell a Winter Project ahead!

I would think that adapter should work with most other sets of the time. All one would need is the settings for the tube to be evaluated to program one's tester correctly.

David
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  #9  
Old 30-06-18, 17:40
Bruce MacMillan Bruce MacMillan is offline
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I do have a supplemental chart for the TV7 with reference to using the ED adaptor. It lists the settings for the CV # of the tube so a cross reference is needed. For example ARP4 is a CV1322. List is here:
https://frank.pocnet.net/other/Servi...CVnumbers.html
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  #10  
Old 18-10-18, 05:22
David Dunlop David Dunlop is offline
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Bruce.

When you have a chance, can you post the dimensions of that valve adapter box?

Thanks,

David
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  #11  
Old 19-10-18, 09:47
Bruce MacMillan Bruce MacMillan is offline
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It's 6.5" L X 2.5" W X 1" D. Mounting frame is attached to the lid.
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  #12  
Old 19-10-18, 17:09
David Dunlop David Dunlop is offline
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Thanks for the measurements and photos, Bruce.

I have a 2-1/8” slot at the top of my Precision Tube Tester used to stow the cables. I should be able to use it to store a free standing version of this adapter quite nicely.

Trying to decide now whether to use an 8 conductor cable very similar to the one on your set, or a brown cloth loomed equivalent that looks like the Remote Supply Connector cable for the ZE-11 and ZE-12 52-Set Supply. Will probably pick up a length of each to see which is more flexible to work with.

Cheers for now,

David
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  #13  
Old 19-10-18, 22:52
Chris Suslowicz Chris Suslowicz is offline
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I have the valve sockets for you, the only difference is that the B7 one is one piece moulded bakelite (i.e. does not have a metal mounting ring), the others are as per Bruce's photograph.

Octal plug is proving difficult - I've found chassis-mount ones (like a reverse valve socket) both with and without the metal mounting plate, but not a cable mounting type.

There's also the WS 52 connector - you'll need a thin 1/4" AF socket to remove the nuts holding the contact springs. (o.d. less than 0.38" to clear the recesses in the socket.)

I'll see if I can get them in the post tomorrow.

Chris.
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  #14  
Old 19-10-18, 23:48
David Dunlop David Dunlop is offline
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Thanks, Chris. Your help is very much appreciated.

I have found a potential source for the octal plug in the States. They carry them with clip on covers with a metal grommeted hole in the end for the cable to pass through. Just waiting to see if they have the ones like Bruce’s photo, with the metal cable clip which I think serves as an anti strain devise for the cable.

Will let you know what I find out.

Best regards,

David
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  #15  
Old 29-10-18, 21:31
David Dunlop David Dunlop is offline
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An hour's worth of driving South this morning was a very worthwhile trip. It took me to Pembina, North Dakota and my favourite Parcel Service Shop where I was able to pick up some pieces for the British Valves Adapter I will be building this Winter.

I had found a suitable sized enclosure locally on Saturday to officially start things off. Todays trip produced a three foot length of brown cloth loomed 8-Conductor Cable for the project, along with a pair of Octal Plugs and a metal Plug Cover with a metal cable anti-strain fitting as per the photos Bruce posted earlier on this thread. All of this from Radio Daze out on the East Coast of the USA.

David
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  #16  
Old 31-10-18, 16:22
David Dunlop David Dunlop is offline
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One more request, Bruce.

Can you give me the diameters of the four holes punched in the cover to mount the sockets? It looks like the two inner ones are the smallest and, perhaps identical.

I thought the two larger outer holes might both be identical to each other, but a closer look suggests one of the outer holes might be larger than the other.

I have a set of socket hole punches, but can also access an adjustable cutter if I need it.

Factor in possible socket variations among manufacturers and this part of the project becomes interesting very quickly.

Best regards,

David
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  #17  
Old 31-10-18, 17:19
Bruce MacMillan Bruce MacMillan is offline
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The white B9G socket is 1 3/8" (1.375), the two black ones in the middle are both 1 1/8 (1.125) and the large black one is 1 1/2" (1.5).

I think these are standard sizes like the Greenlee punches.
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  #18  
Old 31-10-18, 23:34
David Dunlop David Dunlop is offline
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Perfect. I have tools on hand to cover up to and including 1.5 inches.

Thanks for the quick response, Bruce.

David
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  #19  
Old 05-11-18, 19:33
David Dunlop David Dunlop is offline
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Since the valve adapter I will be working on is going to be a free standing item, unlike the Stark design Bruce has, which is hard mounted to the valve tester case, I decided a set of small rubber feet for the bottom of mine would be a good idea to prevent it sliding all over the work bench when in use,

Translating that into an actual product was a bit of a surprise. The web is chocablock full of rubber feet! Somewhat overwhelming really. After about half a hour of looking, a name suddenly jumped out at me under a photo of a set of four rubber feet. It was Long and McQuade, a local musical instrument dealer who happened to be a mere kilometre from home. So off I went last Saturday morning, as their website said they still had one set in stock for only $3.10 Cdn. No size given, however, but they were the screw on type I had in mind,

On arrival, the clerk confirmed one set was still in stock and they were 5/8 inch in diameter by 5/16 inches tall. Done deal!

Interestingly, they turned out to be a product of a company named "John Dunlop Electronic Components" that specialized in restoration items for guitars, guitar cases and amplifiers and these were replacement guitar case feet. The central screw the feet came with was a 4-40 half inch Phillips self tapping. Even better as I had also rediscovered my old stash of 4-40 round head slotted machine screws and hex nuts this weekend.

So one more tick off the parts list.


David
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  #20  
Old 17-11-18, 20:02
David Dunlop David Dunlop is offline
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Since this is going to be a free standing Adapter, I have decided to finish the case in a wrinkle black paint and the face panel in a gloss grey similar to the Stark original in Bruce’s Post # 6. I think that should give it a suitable vintage look.

David
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  #21  
Old 08-12-18, 04:26
David Dunlop David Dunlop is offline
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Default Coil, Sleeve, and Clamps, Retaining, No. 4

I got one of these from a friend of mine today. Looks rusty but it is just a surface tarnish that should clean up OK and one set of original hardware is still attached that should be easy to match. He thought it would make a nice addition to the adapter project and I quite agree.

David
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  #22  
Old 28-12-18, 21:44
David Dunlop David Dunlop is offline
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Found a very nice shade of high gloss grey paint today which should look appropriately vintage.

Should be able to get some preliminary work started on the case assembly in the next few days. Just a bit of careful work to get out of the way on my 52-Set Main receiver first.

David
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  #23  
Old 31-12-18, 23:42
David Dunlop David Dunlop is offline
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A little bit more progress on this project over the holidays.

I have now mapped out, and drilled the holes in the adapter case for the connector cable assembly and the four rubber feet on the bottom. Next step will be painting the case a flat black primer. After it has cured, a coat of wrinkle black will be applied and allowed to cure.

David
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  #24  
Old 01-01-19, 07:06
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Default Sockets

Interesting about the British versus North American valve sockets. Right from the beginning of local military wireless production here ,around 1939, they decided to use the North American standard valve base configuration. Who made that decision I don't know .The 11 set (Aust ) and all of the other wartime built sets I've come across utilize the North American valve configuration.
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  #25  
Old 06-01-19, 23:25
David Dunlop David Dunlop is offline
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The Adapter Case has now received a coat of Satin Flat Black Base. Once it has cured for a bit, the final Wrinkle Black will be applied.

David
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  #26  
Old 10-01-19, 00:38
Chris Suslowicz Chris Suslowicz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Kelly View Post
Interesting about the British versus North American valve sockets. Right from the beginning of local military wireless production here ,around 1939, they decided to use the North American standard valve base configuration. Who made that decision I don't know .The 11 set (Aust ) and all of the other wartime built sets I've come across utilize the North American valve configuration.
I suspect that was a purely pragmatic decision. America is closer to Australia than England, there would be far less of a threat from enemy action (at least, initially), and England couldn't make enough wireless sets for its own use anyway.

There was almost cetainly existing commercial trade since the AWA manufactured version of the WS19 used the Australian (I assume) versions of the American valves rather than the UK/US market ones. (The usual "dominate your market by making your kit dependent on your own manufactured parts" trick.)

Chris.
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  #27  
Old 10-01-19, 13:02
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Suslowicz View Post
I suspect that was a purely pragmatic decision. America is closer to Australia than England, there would be far less of a threat from enemy action (at least, initially), and England couldn't make enough wireless sets for its own use anyway.

There was almost cetainly existing commercial trade since the AWA manufactured version of the WS19 used the Australian (I assume) versions of the American valves rather than the UK/US market ones. (The usual "dominate your market by making your kit dependent on your own manufactured parts" trick.)

Chris.
Hi

Yes that pretty well sums it up. The AWA 19 set was fitted with valves such as the ..6U7G as rf and if amps ..AWA made their own valves branded as AWV . I read an interesting article by a chap who worked at AWV , he described how they modified contemporary US made valves to suit the local Australian manufacturing conditions.


The little infantry 108 sets had those short squat GT series octal based valves
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  #28  
Old 14-01-19, 21:18
David Dunlop David Dunlop is offline
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Sorry, Bruce. Another measurement request, which I think will be the final one.

How much cable did they provide between it’s exit point from the case to where it is clamped to the octal plug?

No rush. Whenever you have a chance.

David
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  #29  
Old 14-01-19, 22:19
Bruce MacMillan Bruce MacMillan is offline
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6.5". With the TV7 tester it is enough to bend around and fit into the clip.
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  #30  
Old 15-01-19, 03:56
David Dunlop David Dunlop is offline
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Thank you, Bruce. Much appreciated.

David
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